IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 September 2009   (all times are UTC)

00:04
<johnny>
dvorak_, they have
00:05
<dvorak_>
any web posts?
00:05
<johnny>
i don't know.. try to find it :)
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00:11
<dvorak_>
i have been trying to dig it up ... with little success
00:11
https://wiki.phys.ethz.ch/readme/notes_on_ltsp_clients
00:11
http://livecd.phys.ethz.ch/
00:12
<johnny>
dvorak_, come back when more people are around
00:12
<alkisg>
...that sounds useful :)
00:12
<dvorak_>
sure
00:15
<alkisg>
vagrantc: "do the udhcp scripts pass VCI ?" ==> yes
00:15
<vagrantc>
alkisg: nice.
00:15
<alkisg>
But I didn't found any standard kernel parameter for that, so I had to create a new one... :-/
00:16
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i was thinking it might be nice to just have them override the configure_networking function, rather than re-implementing everything
00:16
<alkisg>
override == replace?
00:16
<vagrantc>
well, you could leave the existing configure_networking function, but re-define configure_networking at a later stage ...
00:17
thus overriding it, and effectively replacing it
00:17
<alkisg>
Ah. I didn't think of that, it sounds doable...
00:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it seems to behave ok if udhcpc isn't installed, but there was at least one warning message in that case
00:18
<alkisg>
vagrantc, if you see any bugs, ping me, and I'll look into them (I do have a sidux installation around, I guess it's "debian-enough"..)
00:18
But I had left some comments in the code which were to be read and then deleted, and now they're upstream... :(
00:19
<vagrantc>
heh
00:19
well, the comments still had meaning...
00:19
should be documented somewhere
00:19
<alkisg>
I'd better rewrite them then to be cleaner
00:20
<vagrantc>
it seemed to work like a charm, though.
00:20
at least for the default use case.
00:20* alkisg is happy for that :)
00:20
<alkisg>
I tried it even with 2 NICs and it worked fine
00:20
<vagrantc>
and you use enough bizzare use cases that surely all insane paths are tested
00:20
<alkisg>
But it's not tested in any "production" environments...
00:20
So I bet there are some bugs left there
00:21
<vagrantc>
i'll make it the default in my next upload (by recommending udhcpc)
00:21
<alkisg>
...what worries me most is how we use sleep() to wait until the devices are ready..
00:21
I think there should be a better way for that :-/
00:22
<vagrantc>
ah yes ... "sleep 0.1" wasn't valid or something like that was the error i was getting
00:22
maybe the sleep implementation in the initramfs only took integers
00:23
<alkisg>
Ouch. Maybe ubuntu has a different version
00:23
I think it works here
00:23
<vagrantc>
though i swear sleep 0.N is used elsewhere in initramfs-tools
00:23
<johnny>
well.. perhaps it is one of those options that must be enabled in busybox
00:23
<alkisg>
Yes I think I grep'ed for sleep 0.N before using it
00:23
<vagrantc>
i know the initramfs-tools maintainer in debian is trying to ditch busybox entirely
00:24
<alkisg>
To replace it with what?
00:24* alkisg didn't have any complains about busybox so far....
00:24
<vagrantc>
i think just klibc stuff
00:24
<alkisg>
Ah, nice :)
00:24
Killing klibc is worth any hussle :)
00:24
<vagrantc>
of course, we can always add extra utilities if needed.
00:25
<alkisg>
Ooops misunderstood
00:25
OK, got it
00:25
<vagrantc>
heh.
00:25
yeah, the plan is to ditch busybox in favor of klibc, from what i gather.
00:26
<alkisg>
Ugh... who's the maintainer? maks?
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00:28
<johnny>
hmm..
00:29
klibc isjust a lib
00:29
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yeah, maks
00:30
<alkisg>
OK I'm sure he knows what he's doing, then. :)
00:30
<vagrantc>
johnny: well, it's a lib and a suite of utilities written to use that lib
00:30
<johnny>
maybe i'm thinking about uclibc ...
00:31
i know some people were compiling busybox with uclibc
00:31
<vagrantc>
yeah, that's different
00:31
<johnny>
hmm.. but why drop busybox..
00:32
i guess it's worth it if you want something small, and don't want to compile busybox with uclibc
00:32
<vagrantc>
klibc is smaller than what busybox is built with
00:32
right
00:32
<johnny>
busybox is build with glibc by default..
00:32
iirc
00:32
doing it with uclibc wouuld require "cross compiling"
00:32
<vagrantc>
and the size of the initramfs is apparently one of the biggest factors with getting crazy fast boot times
00:32
<johnny>
altho not really..
00:32
but it does require a seperate toolchain
00:33
it'd be nice if debian used dracut too tho.. found some way to cooperate
00:34
<vagrantc>
dracut looked klunky to me
00:34
<johnny>
you think?
00:34
i don't know
00:34
i compared it to initramfs-tools and found that klunky
00:34
<vagrantc>
i've been following it in git
00:34
<johnny>
i thought what was in git looked good
00:35
was nice to see nbd support right iin there
00:35
<vagrantc>
i think it hit some of my pet peeves...like ending shell scripts with .sh
00:35
<johnny>
lol
00:35
python files are always named .py except the executables
00:36
same with most interpreted langs really.. php , ruby, etc..
00:36
executable not having the extension.. but all files used having them
00:36
<vagrantc>
hm. dracut repository i was pulling from isn't letting me check for updates.
00:36
<johnny>
yeah.. i think i had that issue too..
00:37
it says the remote end hung up
00:37* vagrantc too
00:38
<johnny>
i think it is something wrong with sf
00:38
perhaps i should re clone
01:05
<Ryan52>
vagrantc: sure (re uploaders)
01:06
I *really* don't care what packages I'm listed in...there are some packages that I don't even know what they do that I'm in Uploaders for :P
01:06
(because I did RC bug fixes and such)
01:07
<vagrantc>
heh
01:08
<elias_a>
Good morning!
01:08
Where are the functions of NICs defined in LTSP5 + Jaunty?
01:09
Everything else is set but restart dhcpd3 gives me: Not configured to listen on any interfaces!
01:10
<Ryan52>
"Skolelinux archive Installer"..too impatient?
01:10
Debian's NEW queue is really blazing fast the last few weeks, thanks to the new ftpteam members.
01:10
<elias_a>
Found it already...
01:11
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: figure at the very least, i'll get some review from the skolelinux ftpmasters
01:11
Ryan52: but need a sponsor to get it into debian's NEW queue
01:11
<elias_a>
Should be in /etc/default/dhcp3-server
01:11
<Ryan52>
oh right.
01:11
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: skolelinux has a history of being an early adopter for LTSP stuff anyways
01:12
<elias_a>
vagrantc: Do you have a straight connection to skolelinux-people?
01:12
<vagrantc>
elias_a: i'm one of the debian-edu developers, sure.
01:13
<elias_a>
vagrantc: Good! I am trying to get an overall impression of where different FLOSS@schools projects are going.
01:13
vagrantc: Would it be OK for me to call you some time?
01:14
I am travelling for a week now but maybe after that....
01:14
<vagrantc>
elias_a: why not just post questions to the public mailing lists?
01:15
<elias_a>
vagrantc: That's a good option. I just happen to know that not all projects I know about are on those lists.
01:15
But it is a good start :)
01:15
<vagrantc>
elias_a: debian-edu@lists.debian.org
01:16
elias_a: there's also irc.debian.org #debian-edu
01:20
night all
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01:24
<alkisg>
(09:09:54 πμ) elias_a: Everything else is set but restart dhcpd3 gives me: Not configured to listen on any interfaces! ==> You should edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to match your subnet.
01:26
<elias_a>
alkisg: I think I found the problem: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1094344.html
01:27
I am setting up a demo server into a laptop which of course is running Network Manager :)
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01:29
<alkisg>
elias_a: nope, that doesn't solve your problem, it creates more problems
01:29
# Find this line / ... INTERFACES="" / # Replace with the following line / INTERFACES="eth0" ===> don't do this, it's the wrong way.
01:30
This way instead of solving the problem, you disable dhcp3-server's autodetect features.
01:30
<elias_a>
alkisg: Ok. What do I have to do?
01:30
<alkisg>
You should edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to match your subnet.
01:31
*but*
01:31
If it's a laptop, then I assume there's already a dhcp server where you're going to do the demo?
01:31
<elias_a>
I do no know that yet.
01:32
Where's the problem, then?
01:32
<alkisg>
If there's a dhcp server already there, then you'd have 2 dhcp servers in the same subnet, so there will be problems, e..g clients not booting
01:32
In that case, you'd better use a proxy dhcp; not a normal dhcp server.
01:33
<elias_a>
I don't think so as I am going to build a new subnet: a switch for the clients.
01:33
<alkisg>
In this case a dhcp server won't be there, so no problem, ok
01:33
<elias_a>
Does DHCP echo through the LTSP server, then?
01:34
Yes, and a 2 NIC setup of course to isolate the 2 networks.
01:34
<alkisg>
But if you just plugged your laptop to the existing switch, and an existing dhcp server was there, you'd better use a proxy dhcp
01:34
(That's what *I* do when I want to show ltsp demos with my laptop)
01:35
<elias_a>
alkisg: Yes, of course.
01:35
<alkisg>
OK first things first. Edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to match your subnet, and restart dhcp3-server
01:36
<elias_a>
alkisg: I do not want to go to the other side of the world and plug a LTSP-server into a network in production and mess it .)
01:36
;-)
01:36
<alkisg>
It doesn't cause any mess, that's the beauty of it
01:36
It's plug 'n' play, thanks to the dnsmasq developer
01:37
<elias_a>
Wow - where can I read more about it?
01:37
<alkisg>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
01:38
It *assumes* that there's an existing dhcp server running on the network.
01:38
Otherwise, you'd have to change a single line in the dnsmasq configuration file.
01:38
<elias_a>
OK. Sounds like fun :)
01:46
I am still getting Not configured to listen on any interfaces! when trying to start dhcpd3.
01:48
Is there another place where the configuration could be than dhcpd.conf?
01:59
http://pastebin.com/m43b5b4f8 <- /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
02:01
<alkisg>
What's your ip? Do an ipconfig -a
02:02
Your eth0 should have an ip in the 192.168.0.x range for that dhcpd.conf to function correctly.
02:02
<elias_a>
is the output of ifconfig enough?
02:03
IP is in any case 192.168.1.34 for the NIC connected to Internet
02:05
<alkisg>
As you're telling me, you're using your laptop as a 2-nic ltsp server
02:05
<elias_a>
Yes.
02:05
<alkisg>
So, you should connect to the internet through wlan = 192.168.1.34 and have a static ip in eth0=192.168.0.1
02:05
Anything other than that is not a standard 2-nic ltsp setup, and needs more explaining..
02:06
<elias_a>
alkisg: Yes, exept that I do have 2 LAN NICS.
02:07
<alkisg>
Ah :)
02:07
In your laptop???? Nice!
02:07
(what's the other one, pcmcia?)
02:07
<elias_a>
alkisg: But I think I get now what I have not seen: the NIC that serves the clients: How is DHCP disabled on that one?
02:08
<alkisg>
DHCP only listens on the interface that matches dhcpd.conf
02:08
So only in the 192.168.0.x interface.
02:08
<elias_a>
alkisg: Nice? To have old crap like RTL chipset NICs? :)
02:08
<alkisg>
You have 2 RTL nics in your laptop???!!!
02:08
<elias_a>
So it should basically work with the configuration I have?
02:09
alkisg: No - only one (luckily).
02:09
I plugged an old NIC into a thinkpad T42 to take care of traffic to Internet.
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02:10
<elias_a>
Yes - it is PCMCIA
02:10
<alkisg>
elias_a: I don't get your network setup. You have 2 laptops there?
02:11
<elias_a>
alkisg: Depends on what you mean... I'll try to explain....
02:12
I have a T42 laptop with 2 NICs. The built in is meant to serve the clients. The PCMCIA card works. I am writing this through it.
02:13
The other laptop is used as a client.
02:13
<alkisg>
Ah right
02:13
OK, then the PCICIA=192.168.1.34 and the build-in=192.168.0.1
02:13
<elias_a>
Nothing strange... I have set up LTSP before but now here's something I just cannot figure out.
02:14
alkisg: Yes, exactly.
02:15
<alkisg>
elias_a: what I'm saying is that if you have those IPs, then dhcp3-server should start ok
02:16
<elias_a>
alkisg: Ummm... now I noticed something strange. When I start the client machine, the server tries to get a DHCP lease from the client....
02:16
Maybe I should get rid of Network Manager altogether?
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02:16
<alkisg>
You have the client connected with a crossover cable? Or a switch?
02:17
Did you set up a *static* ip=192.168.0.1 for your built-in NIC?
02:17
<elias_a>
alkisg: With a straight cable. I was told yesterday it should work.
02:18
<alkisg>
Heh. :)
02:18
<elias_a>
alkisg: No - I guess the static IP is what is missing here.
02:18
alkisg: And it does not work, does it? :D
02:18
<alkisg>
Using a straight cable would work if one of your laptops (or both) have autosensing (mdx)
02:19
...and a static IP is necessary - how did you make the built-in nic to use 192.168.0.1 if not by using a static ip?
02:19
<elias_a>
alkisg: and the rest of it goes: ...and my crappy old thinkpads do not necessarily have it :)
02:20
<alkisg>
You can use either networkmanager or /etc/network/interfaces to set up a static IP for your built-in nic
02:21
<elias_a>
alkisg: Yes - will do that. What is used as gateway in the settings of the LTSP client side card if the external card gets an address with DHCP?
02:22
<alkisg>
No gateway needed if you don't use localapps
02:22
Also, you seem to use your ltsp server as the dns server - did you actually install bind in your laptop?
02:25
<elias_a>
No - there's the fault!
02:26
<alkisg>
Not really. DNS server doesn't have anything to do with dhcp3-server not starting :)
02:26
<elias_a>
Oh, crap... :/
02:26
<alkisg>
The problem is that you don't have a static ip for the built-in nic
02:26
So set one already :)
02:28
<elias_a>
But is it possible to forward the DNS information to the LTSP NIC configuration if getting address with DHCP to the external card?
02:29
<alkisg>
LTSP clients, in their default configuration, have little use for dns
02:30
But other than that, yes, you could put the "external" dns server there, and put the laptop as the gateway for the clients. That wouldn't be useful if localapps aren't used, though
02:31
<elias_a>
I am dreaming of demoing localapps...
02:31
But first I have to get this running.
02:33
<alkisg>
If you're dreaming about localapps, then you should probably forget about the second nic and just use the proxydhcp method I told you before
02:33
So there's no point in fixing dhcp3-server when you'll be replacing it with dnsmasq...
02:34
<elias_a>
Hold on....
02:35
There's one more thing... the place I am going to go probably does not have Internet access at all so I should be able to demo the server standalone.
02:35
but that is another story...
02:35
<alkisg>
The primary reason for using 2 nics is to prevent the clients to be accessed from the internet, for security reasons
02:36
If localapps are used, then obviously the clients have direct access to the internet (usually - firefox, flash etc as localapps)
02:36
<elias_a>
I wonder what the term "auto" refers to in Network Manager setup?
02:36
<alkisg>
Auto = dhcp client
02:36
You need a static ip, not auto.
02:36
<elias_a>
So do I just delete it and create a new?
02:37
Ok.
02:53

02:53
Oops.
02:53
For some reason giving the NIC settings manually to the LTSP side card does not seem to work.
02:54
Ifconfig does not show an address to the card.
02:54
I will have a break and enter RTFM mode.
03:19
<alkisg>
elias_a: there's a bug in network manager that prevents setting up *system* connections for dual nic systems
03:20
elias_a: so just use /etc/network/interfaces - or don't click the "apply to all users" button (I don't remember its exact caption)
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03:42
<elias_a>
alkisg: Thank you! Seems like if there is a bug, I will find it :)
03:42
<alkisg>
So does it work now?
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03:50
<elias_a>
I'll have to do some other things first.
03:50
I'll tell you about it.
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09:34
<BugsBunnyBR>
hey, someone knows if there is any problem in kubuntu 8.04 to get the configurations from /var/lib/tftpboot/i386/lts.conf?
09:35
My thin clients seens doesnot get this configurations..
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09:41
<BugsBunnyBR>
someone knows why the config is not got in the thin clients?
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