IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 23 September 2012   (all times are UTC)

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14:31
<markit>
hi alkisg :) is phantomas ok? is some days I try to find him online without success
14:31
<alkisg>
Hi markit
14:31
<markit>
ok, I could drop him a email
14:31* markit lazy
14:31
<Phantomas>
markit: I'm fine :p
14:31
<markit>
hahaha
14:31* markit blind
14:31
<alkisg>
Yeah he's fine, implementing some portions in sch-scripts and having his school exams at the same time
14:32
<markit>
I always look for him in the gr channel, not here
14:32
he has changed habbits
14:32
Phantomas: great multitasking... but remember... culture / university FIRST
14:32
alkisg: I've had to revert to thin client setup in the elementary schools
14:33
<alkisg>
Why so?
14:33
<markit>
kde has the need to cache a lot of stuff (around 10MB per student), nfs does not work fine
14:33
and with sshfs I had the strange problem
14:33
I've to do some more tests
14:34
because probably if you revert from nfs to sshfs the "symlink stuff" does not work fine in kde
14:34
or maybe it tryes to follow a wrong / false link
14:34
I do hope to take the time to write in some KDE list about those problems
14:34
<alkisg>
Maybe... yeah upstream LTSP could use more feedback/patches for KDE
14:35
<markit>
alkisg: mmm how go from normal to upstream LTSP (your repositories) without hurt myself?
14:35
and why you have that feeling?
14:36
<alkisg>
I mean that if you find out how to fix the sshfs problem with KDE, then you can mail the devs or file a bug, so that fat clients work better on KDE out of the box
14:36
Because now not many people use KDE with LTSP so there are many things untested
14:36
You don't need to change repositories to give feedback
14:38
<markit>
my skill in troubleshooting is limited, I need to find a kde dev interested, I've tried in #kde-edu but they don't use ltsp, at least the few I've spoken with
14:38
maybe writing in some ML can trigger the right person
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14:38
<markit>
in any case, now I want to reprodue the situation in my home VM
14:39
and do some test just to narrow the problem or understand what works and what not
14:42
<alkisg>
markit: you can also file a bug in ltsp, in case some dev wants to have a look at it
14:42
!ltsp-bug
14:42
<ltsp>
ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
14:42
<markit>
thanks for the suggestion
14:43
btw, in general if I want to use your repositories in a existing ltsp installation, what should I do? remove all the ltsp related packages means what has "ltsp" in the name or also nbd or dhcp stuff?
14:45
<alkisg>
markit: why would you use them? The added benefit is only ltsp-pnp, and you're not using fat clients
14:45
<markit>
didn't you suggested me to do so, since you backport much more fixes, like for the zip propblem?
14:45
<alkisg>
But yeah if you want to, you'd better purge ltsp, and remove all old ltsp configuration: /etc/ltsp, /etc/nbd-server/*...
14:45
<markit>
and I want to go fat as soon as I fix the kde troubles
14:46
<alkisg>
I adviced using the repository from the start though, so that you avoid all the migration problems ;)
14:46
But ok if you remove all the old ltsp configuration files you'll be ok
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14:55
<alkisg>
!kvm
14:55
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'kvm', but I do know about these similar topics: 'kms'
14:57
<markit>
alkisg: btw, for sshfs, is there a way to have the cryptographic part be the less cpu consuming possible?
14:57
(or avoid encrypting at all...)
14:57
my fat clients are P-IV
14:58
and I want to speed things up the most I can
14:58
<alkisg>
markit: there are some lighter encryption methods, but the ssh guys are avoiding to allow unencrypted connections
14:59
In general though /home access is light enough to be OK even encrypted, even on P4 machines. Unless you're planning to do video processing... :)
15:00
!learn kvm as To boot a fake thin client with kvm: kvm -ctrl-grab -net nic -net user,tftp=/var/lib/tftpboot,bootfile=/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
15:00
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
15:00
<alkisg>
!learn kvm-vnc as To send a fake client screen to someone so that he can help you, add -vnc technician-ip:5500,reverse to the kvm command line. See also !kvm.
15:00
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
15:01
<alkisg>
!socat
15:01
<ltsp>
socat: One way to share a console with a remote person is: [local pc] forward port 5500, run: socat tcp-listen:5500,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 [remote pc] socat tcp:server:5500 SYSTEM:"{ sleep 1; xterm -e screen -xRR ra$$; } & exec screen -S ra$$",pty,stderr
15:02
<alkisg>
!learn kvm-socat as To share a fake thin client console screen via text (faster) instead of vnc, see !quiet-splash, !socat, !kvm, and also add -curses to the kvm command line.
15:02
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
15:04
<alkisg>
Meh those should probably go in the wiki, and have the bot only send the links to the wiki pages
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15:49
<markit>
is there an easy way from bash to know if I've a fat or thin chroot?
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17:09
<alkisg>
markit: ls /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop => if you have a desktop environment entry there, it's a fat chroot
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17:09
<markit>
alkisg: thanks a lot
17:10
I've tried ltsp-info but does not provide such info
17:16
<vagrantc>
(and if you have enough ram)
17:17
we should probably check for that in ltsp-info
17:17
<alkisg>
Ideally we'll remove LTSP_FATCLIENT completely...
17:17
And launch pulseaudio per session etc
17:17
And list all the sessions in ldm, local or not, and let the user choose if he wants a fat session or a remote one
17:18
<vagrantc>
ah.
17:18
and provide a way to default one way or the other?
17:18
<alkisg>
LDM_SESSION
17:18
(or, LTSP_SESSION, if we switch to lightdm...)
17:18
<markit>
alkisg: I've seen --force is not more available... was important for rebuild /opt/ltsp/i386/boot/pxelinux.cfg/default... is no more the case or do I have a differnt option/strategy to use?
17:19
<alkisg>
markit: --force was there to reassign nbd ports
17:19
NBD no longer uses different ports
17:19
<markit>
I see, thanks
17:19* vagrantc cheers for NBD improvements
17:19
<alkisg>
And, pxelinux.cfg/default gets updated every time you run ltsp-update-kernels
17:20
And I think that ltsp-update-image calls ltsp-update-kernels by default... :)
17:20
<markit>
and I think that if you just think "install ltsp and configure" everyithing is done with latest release... ;P
17:20
<vagrantc>
always use $chroot/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf to set boot parameters
17:20
alkisg: how's your precise backporting going?
17:21
<alkisg>
vagrantc: fine, it's working now, pushed it to schools here
17:22
Hehe debian stable... apt-get update after 2 months => 3 mb of updates
17:22
Precise => 300 mb of updates :D
17:22
<muppis>
Never trusted the Debianway..
17:23
<vagrantc>
that's what they mean by stable- minimal changes.
17:24
and when maintaining anything other than my personal computer, that's exactly what i'd want, personally.
17:24
<alkisg>
I'd agree; if things were working :D
17:24
Now that they're not working so much in Precise, I do appreciate any bug fixes...
17:25
(we can't even type greek out of the box in the live cd and after the installation... lame)
17:25
<vagrantc>
i would rather have things not working predictibly than have unpredictible breakages introduced through unneccesary updates.
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17:26
<vagrantc>
with Debian's stable release, once it's release, you know what you're dealing with, more or less.
17:26
haven't seen that with other distros
17:26
<alkisg>
I think the bottom line is that ubuntu releases get released 1 year before they're ready...
17:27* vagrantc has always been suspect of a 6 month release cycle
17:27
<vagrantc>
sure beeats 6 weeks for firefox, though.
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18:38
<ltspuser_96>
HI
18:38
I need help
18:38
any one here help me
18:38
<muppis>
Just ask.
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19:57
<ltspuser_96>
LTSP, Kiosk mode client,
19:57
instead to lunch Firefox I wont to lunch a java application,
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19:57
<ltspuser_96>
Please where can I do the changes note that the application is running via script ( application.sh start)
19:59
...
20:10
<markit>
alkisg: you are not directly interested, but just to share... I've made /var/tmp available to fat clients, so the kde cache is "persistent", but in any case I/O is reduced but still really too high, so logging is still a pain
20:10
I'm asking someone in #kde-edu if can help or find someone that can help
20:11
but I've the bad feeling that kde and fat are not possible so far and until someone takes care of the "bug"
20:11* markit is great in choosing often the wrong path
20:16
<alkisg>
markit: ssh with gigabit should be about as fast as local disk
20:16
So I don't see why it would be slower than local installations for KDE
20:17
<markit>
first, I've 100MB in clients
20:18
second, the "poor" server hd has 24PC doint I/O, since children login almost at the same time
20:18
and a lot of write is done, don't understand how and by who
20:18
since in the server I just see 2 processes doing I/O
20:18
<alkisg>
markit: your server is gigabit, right? Did you check the flow control problem?
20:18
<markit>
NBD-server (read) and sftp-server (write)
20:19
alkisg: here at home I've just one client connected, and is a lot slow
20:19
and yes, I tested the flow problem at school long time ago with your help if I recall correctly :)
20:20
<alkisg>
markit: can you do this?
20:20
apt-get install iftop
20:20
boot client to ldm
20:20
sudo iftop -i eth0
20:20
login client
20:20
==> check total bytes transferred
20:21
So if e.g. kde needs 50 mb for login even with caching and after the first time, ... it's a pain
20:21
<markit>
ok (I've to kiss my children and come back to keyboard asap)
20:22* alkisg will leave in a bit, but we can continue this some other day when you have the results...
20:24
<markit>
alkisg: thanks
20:25
<ltspuser_96>
:)
20:25
<markit>
total is increasing a lot
20:26
180MB so far
20:26
alkisg: is the bottom line of the screen? is scaring
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20:27
<alkisg>
markit: when did you run iftop? After ldm was loaded? Or before the client was even booted?
20:27
<markit>
TOTAL: 601MB 72,8Mb 54,9Mb 31,1Mb 49,0Mb
20:27
ldm loaded
20:27
I entered the password without typing Enter
20:27
then I run iftop -i eth1
20:28
and hit enter in the client
20:29
<alkisg>
And that's a fat client? Wowwww
20:30
Let me measure a gnome login...
20:31
<markit>
so seems that has read 601MB ad wrote 72 ?
20:31
mmm no, is "peak"
20:32
<alkisg>
Total is read + write, I think
20:32
<markit>
ok, but I've the RX and TX part
20:32
so with a cache already present seems that reads 600 and writes 50
20:32
I can try to delete the /var/tmp/kdecache and retest
20:33
<alkisg>
markit: 35mb
20:33
<markit>
urgh!!!!
20:34
kde is 20 times "better" ;P
20:34
<alkisg>
See? Caching helps! :P
20:36
<markit>
hehehe... sigh
20:38
ok, again 652 MB, strange that RX is only 21MB
20:39
but /var/tmp/kdecache is 100MB
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21:50
<rac_>
hello
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21:51
<rac_>
hello
21:51
I need help... is somebody here????
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21:53
<rac_>
hello... i am using edubuntu 12.04.1 and I cant activate the effect with compiz... any help please
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