IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 November 2011   (all times are UTC)

00:08vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@c-76-105-252-50.hsd1.or.comcast.net, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:24alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.)
00:53Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)
00:55Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
00:57vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@c-76-105-252-50.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
01:05darkpixel_ has left IRC (darkpixel_!~darkpixel@curetheitch/staff/darkpixel, Quit: Leaving.)
01:14Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)
01:17[GuS] has joined IRC ([GuS]!~gustavo@186.19.173.126)
01:18vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@c-76-105-252-50.hsd1.or.comcast.net, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:19Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
01:24[GuS] has left IRC ([GuS]!~gustavo@186.19.173.126, Remote host closed the connection)
01:29petre has joined IRC (petre!~petre@scheie.homedns.org)
01:29petre is now known as petres
01:31quietone has joined IRC (quietone!~quietone@121-98-80-11.bitstream.orcon.net.nz)
01:38
<quietone>
Sound is not working on any thin client. Can someone point me to something to read to help fix this?
01:47Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)
01:53hughessd has joined IRC (hughessd!~hughessd@71-20-34-17.war.clearwire-wmx.net)
02:12hughessd has left IRC (hughessd!~hughessd@71-20-34-17.war.clearwire-wmx.net, Quit: hughessd)
02:16Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
02:29petres has left IRC (petres!~petre@scheie.homedns.org, Quit: Leaving)
02:46Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
02:48Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
02:53andygraybeals has left IRC (andygraybeals!~andy@h13.227.22.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:56quietone has left IRC (quietone!~quietone@121-98-80-11.bitstream.orcon.net.nz, Quit: Leaving)
03:00Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
04:06Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)
04:07mik2 has joined IRC (mik2!~miks@50-39-205-135.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
04:08
<mik2>
alkisg: I could KISS you! Adding X_HORZSYNC and the refresh rate improved the resolution on those problem machines.
04:08
Thanks so much!
04:08mik2 has left IRC (mik2!~miks@50-39-205-135.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
04:09mik2 has joined IRC (mik2!~miks@50-39-205-135.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
04:09mik2 has left IRC (mik2!~miks@50-39-205-135.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net)
04:14Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
04:23cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
04:25Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)
04:55jvin has left IRC (jvin!~jvin@108-82-19-151.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net, Quit: Left... chased by weasles!)
05:11cyberorg has joined IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg)
05:30staffencasa has left IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@128-193-148-141.oregonstate.edu, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
05:38cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
05:51cyberorg has joined IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg)
08:16Mava has left IRC (Mava!~Mava@ip-45-224.dhcp.opintanner.fi, Quit: leaving)
08:17Mava has joined IRC (Mava!~Mava@ip-45-224.dhcp.opintanner.fi)
08:22bobby_C has joined IRC (bobby_C!~bobby@85-124-22-227.teleworker.xdsl-line.inode.at)
08:42pingufan has joined IRC (pingufan!~rainer@goliath.hantsch.co.at)
08:43
<pingufan>
Hi, I want to start some little scripts in the background of a client when it starts up, without giving the user the feature of running local apps by himself. Is this possible in general?
08:44dobber has joined IRC (dobber!~dobber@213.169.45.222)
08:53alexqwesa has left IRC (alexqwesa!~alex@alexo-veto.broker.freenet6.net, Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
08:53alexqwesa_ has joined IRC (alexqwesa_!~alex@109.172.15.11)
09:08
<Hyperbyte>
pingufan, sure. You can disable LOCAL_APPS in lts.conf I think and you can use RC_FILE to launch scripts on the client.
09:08
!lts.conf
09:08
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
09:17alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
09:20
<pingufan>
Where is the rc-file stored?
09:28
<alkisg>
The man page mentions the path...
09:33toscalix has joined IRC (toscalix!~toscalix@77.208.104.52)
09:37garymc has joined IRC (garymc!~chatzilla@host81-139-152-192.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
09:50Patina has left IRC (Patina!~tomas@1385158770.dhcp.dbnet.dk, Read error: Operation timed out)
09:53Patina has joined IRC (Patina!~tomas@1385158770.dhcp.dbnet.dk)
09:55alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.)
09:56dobber has left IRC (dobber!~dobber@213.169.45.222, Read error: Operation timed out)
09:57toscalix has left IRC (toscalix!~toscalix@77.208.104.52, Remote host closed the connection)
10:21Gremble has joined IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc12-aztw24-2-0-cust146.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com)
10:30Trixboxer has joined IRC (Trixboxer!~Trixboxer@office.supportdepartment.net)
10:32pingufan has left IRC (pingufan!~rainer@goliath.hantsch.co.at, Remote host closed the connection)
10:33tyrael2210 has joined IRC (tyrael2210!~Luke@net-93-64-162-201.cust.dsl.vodafone.it)
10:35
<tyrael2210>
hello everyone, i am experiencing some problem installing ltsp on ubuntu
10:36
after install/build image the client gave me the error tftp timeout
10:36
so i tried to reboot the pc
10:37
and now dhcp is not working
10:37
can someone help me durig the first client start?
10:37
Thanks anyway and sorry 4 my bad englis
10:38
h
10:40
please, is five days right now that i'm stuck with ltsp
10:48dobber has joined IRC (dobber!~dobber@89.190.199.210)
10:52
<tyrael2210>
no one can help me?
11:03Steve_the_Pirate has joined IRC (Steve_the_Pirate!~Gary@host109-154-229-204.range109-154.btcentralplus.com)
11:11artista-frustrad has joined IRC (artista-frustrad!~fernando@200.247.43.2)
11:15
<tyrael2210>
is there anyone around here?
11:18Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
11:25NeonLicht has left IRC (NeonLicht!~NeonLicht@darwin.ugr.es, Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
11:26NeonLicht has joined IRC (NeonLicht!~NeonLicht@darwin.ugr.es)
11:41alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
11:41cyberorg has left IRC (cyberorg!~cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
11:56
<alkisg>
!tftp | echo tyrael2210:
11:56
<ltsp>
tyrael2210: tftp: Here's a page to help you troubleshoot TFTP problems in Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
11:57
<tyrael2210>
how can i create new account for ltsp client?
11:58
<alkisg>
You can use any user account on the server
11:58
I.e. you don't create special "ltsp user accounts", you just go to users-admin on the server and create normal users
12:06
<tyrael2210>
where is users-admin?
12:09
<alkisg>
In the system > users menu. If you can't find it, just run the command from the console.
12:10abeehc has left IRC (abeehc!~bob@50.92.192.146, Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
12:10abeehc has joined IRC (abeehc!~bob@2001:1938:1a3:0:216:41ff:fe2c:9b3c)
12:13
<tyrael2210>
users-admin is not installed by default on 11.10, i have to download it, but i have some problems editing /etc/network/interfaces
12:13
<alkisg>
tyrael2210: then use whatever tool is there in 11.10 for user account creation
12:14
Creating users on the server is not LTSP specific; if you can't find the tool, just google it or ask in #ubuntu
12:14
What problem with /etc/network/interfaces? You may also use network-manager to setup a connection...
12:15
<tyrael2210>
network-manager not working properly on ubuntu 11.10
12:15
<alkisg>
Why? Any links to bug reports?
12:15
<tyrael2210>
#ubuntu chan told me to edit etc/network/interfaces
12:17
unable to manage is the error i get using graphical interface to edit connections
12:17andygraybeals has joined IRC (andygraybeals!~andy@rrcs-70-60-0-160.central.biz.rr.com)
12:18
<alkisg>
tyrael2210: don't use both /etc/network/interfaces AND network-manager
12:18
If you want to use network-manager, remove the "eth1" declaration from you /etc/network/interfaces, and restart your server
12:18
Selecting between /etc/network/interfaces or network-manager is a matter of personal preference
12:19
Some people don't trust nm because in the past it had various problems, but it's been mostly stable for a few years now
12:19
<andygraybeal>
morninigng
12:20
<alkisg>
Hey andy
12:28Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)
12:33Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
12:33bobby_C has left IRC (bobby_C!~bobby@85-124-22-227.teleworker.xdsl-line.inode.at, Quit: Goin' down hard)
12:34
<andygraybeal>
hows greece doing?
12:36
<alkisg>
Nothing like $HOME :)
12:36
<tyrael2210>
ok, i solved ethernet issues, i created an account on users-admin
12:37
i start the client and i get the login page, i try to login with user/password of the new account
12:37
than appears "answer from the server, reboot"
12:38
than the screen becomes black and i am back to login page
12:38andygraybeals has left IRC (andygraybeals!~andy@rrcs-70-60-0-160.central.biz.rr.com, Quit: Ex-Chat)
12:38
<alkisg>
That might mean that you need to update your ssh keys
12:38
!ltsp-update-sshkeys
12:38
<ltsp>
alkisg: ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
12:38
<alkisg>
So, try the above 2 commands
12:39
sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
12:44Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)
12:49
<tyrael2210>
perfect! thanks a lot, now i have a desktop on the client finally
12:50
last question, how can i share with the client applications i have installed on the server?
12:50
<alkisg>
The client session runs on the server
12:51
So any applications you run on the server are automatically there on clients too
12:52
<tyrael2210>
what you mean?if for example i want to open firefox on the client?
12:54
<alkisg>
You just click on firefox
12:54
It should already be there
12:54
Didn't you get a complete gnome session with menus and everything when you logged in on the client?
12:56
<tyrael2210>
no, i have only a menubar on top that allows me only to browse the home folder
12:56
<alkisg>
Do you have the ubuntu-desktop package installed on your ltsp server?
12:58
<tyrael2210>
yes
12:59andygraybeal_ has joined IRC (andygraybeal_!~andy.gray@obsidian.casanueva.com)
12:59
<alkisg>
It may have something to do with the default sessions in oneiric
12:59andygraybeal_ has left IRC (andygraybeal_!~andy.gray@obsidian.casanueva.com, Client Quit)
12:59
<alkisg>
E.g. maybe unity-3d doesn't work on your hardware, and some fallback is used
12:59
Try unity-2d or gnome-session-fallback
12:59
Install those packages on your server
12:59
Then on the client open a gnome-terminal and type: unity-2d
13:01
<tyrael2210>
i am installing gnome-session-fallback
13:02
now i reboot the client
13:02
<alkisg>
No need
13:02
That doesn't change the default session
13:03
You'll still need to try running it manually after logon
13:03
If it works you can then set LDM_SESSION in lts.conf
13:04
<tyrael2210>
yes it works
13:05
now to make it start gnome session by default do i have to edit lts.conf?
13:05
<alkisg>
Yes
13:05markit has joined IRC (markit!~marco@88-149-177-66.staticnet.ngi.it)
13:06
<tyrael2210>
path?
13:06
<alkisg>
It's in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf, create it if it doesn't exist
13:06
!lts.conf
13:06
<ltsp>
alkisg: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
13:06
<markit>
hi, the Ubuntu trend torward "the market" and the bethrade of our community is pushing me to change distro for the future, is LTSP supported well in any other distro? Like Fedora?
13:06pscheie_ has joined IRC (pscheie_!~pscheie@74-95-141-141-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
13:07
<markit>
hi alkisg :) alive and kicking as usual :)
13:07
<alkisg>
markit: the next best supported distro is Debian
13:07
And it should be very familiar to an Ubuntu user
13:07
(epoptes already in debian/experimental ;))
13:07
<markit>
I use debian on my computers, except for laptop and ltsp, so I'll feel at home there, BUT
13:08
I use "unstable" to have updated packages, something I would not to use at schools
13:08
<alkisg>
Why? Do you think that fedora is more stable than that? :D
13:08
<markit>
but seems to me to recall that red hat/fedora had something with ltsp
13:08
<alkisg>
Yes, fedora has ltsp
13:08
It has been unmaintained for years
13:08
Causing fedora users to switch to ubuntu
13:09
<markit>
alkisg: well, I'm on "unstable" and very happy, but updates sometime breaks the system
13:09
ah, very sad :(
13:09
<alkisg>
Recently warren started maintaining it again
13:09
But he said that it'd only work on one version, as fedora doesn't want to support the technologies that ltsp needs
13:09
So you should be able to find some beta version that _might_ work
13:10
<markit>
(btw, aptitude search epoptes in this unstable 64 bit debian sid gives no result)
13:10
<tyrael2210>
ok, i created lts.conf in that path
13:10
<alkisg>
markit: experimental, not unstable
13:10
<tyrael2210>
what do i have to write in that?
13:10
<markit>
alkisg: oh, sorry
13:10pscheie has left IRC (pscheie!~pscheie@cottonmouth.corp.visionshareinc.com, Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
13:10
<alkisg>
markit: also, what software would you need from unstable in a school? Wouldn't stable + backports + maybe something from testing be enough?
13:10
<pmatulis>
using 'buntu 11.10. when a client logs in the background remains the login screen. any hints what may be going on?
13:11
<markit>
alkisg: mainly KDE desktop (even in unstable we are still at 4.6.5) and libreoffice
13:11
<alkisg>
markit: in Ubuntu, I'm using LTS releases only for schools, so that's old software too, teachers + students don't seem to mind
13:11
<markit>
alkisg: and epoptes... I have it in ubuntu since some months
13:11
;P
13:11
<alkisg>
:D
13:11
markit: and those are not available in testing?
13:11
<markit>
alkisg: I've to change my aproach to "up to date software", sure you are right
13:12
alkisg: never tried testing, I should check
13:12
<alkisg>
I'm not a frequent debian user, but I believe "testing" is much more recommented than "unstable"
13:12
And it should have reasonable new software
13:12
So anyway, what's your problem with Ubuntu, specifically?
13:12
<markit>
alkisg: I'll have a look
13:13
alkisg: you know I'm a Free software beliver and activist, and also I own an android phone
13:13
the thing that puzzled me a lot with androind is taht you have "the market" and no distinction among Free and Proprietary programs
13:13
when you look for a program
13:13
(you should download and carefully check the license)
13:13
I've installed Ubuntu (Unity) on second boot of my children PC
13:14
just to have a look
13:14
and their recent package management (don't recall it's name)
13:14
seem to work like that
13:14
with "Gratis" (no price) label well on evicence
13:14
and at the bottom "Open source" even for GPL programs (that are Free / Libre)
13:14
<alkisg>
If you're looking for a distro that focuses on free software only, then I don't think any of the famous distros will do for you (ubuntu, debian, fedora, opensuse etc). You'd need something like gnewsense.
13:15
And of course teachers won't appreciate the low quality + instability :)
13:15
(as you remember from the nvidia drivers problem :))
13:15
<markit>
alkisg: you know, is a matter of how you do things
13:15
one thing is telling "this is much better, preserves your freedom, if you are desperate you can use, temporary, this proprietary program if forced"
13:16
the other is "I'm on FOSS, and belive me, just pick up what you want, don't care about license and your freedom"
13:16
this is THE POINT
13:16
I'm raising
13:16
<alkisg>
markit: remember, you're trying to put free software in schools
13:16
Not in your home pc
13:16
<markit>
exactly
13:16
<alkisg>
So if something doesn't work for teachers, they'll just tell you "I want to switch back to windows"
13:16
<markit>
that makes it much more important, OMHO
13:16
<alkisg>
They don't care about your points
13:17
<markit>
I'll make it work IF forced with some proprietary piece (like flash)
13:17
but, as stated, don't want a system that makes the user dumb again
13:17
<alkisg>
What do you mean "dumb"?
13:17
<Hyperbyte>
I think Fedora would suit you, markit. They specifically don't include things like proprietary MP3 codecs, flash players, etc, in their OS.
13:17
<markit>
and pust all proprietary program "a click matter" and does not valorize FOSS goals
13:18
Hyperbyte: debian also
13:18
<alkisg>
No, but it makes systems work and teachers happy
13:18
<Hyperbyte>
Fedora won't play flash movies out of the box, nor MP3 files, and you can't install those via the package manager either.
13:18garymc has left IRC (garymc!~chatzilla@host81-139-152-192.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Remote host closed the connection)
13:18
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: that's true for ubuntu too
13:18
And fedora uses proprietary firmware in their kernels too, by default, afaik
13:18
<markit>
alkisg: but if they dont' value freedom better stay with windows, I can't think a reason I should waste my time then
13:18
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, you sure? My Ubuntu plays MP3 files and I didn't install a third-party package for it.
13:18
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: there's a checkbox in the installation, "use mp3 proprietary software", did you check it?
13:19
<markit>
Hyperbyte: this is another Ubuntu damage
13:19
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, no, there's no proprietary drivers in Fedora kernel.
13:19
<alkisg>
firmware, not drivers
13:19
<markit>
Hyperbyte: they mix the problem of Free software that can't be distributed in some countries due to Patenst with Propreitary software
13:19
Hyperbyte: so you can have Free software to play dvd and MP3
13:19
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, ah, in that case... yes, I did check that, because I care more about the user experience than argument. =D
13:19
<markit>
but they mix it with "proprietari" repositories
13:19
<Hyperbyte>
*this argument
13:20
<alkisg>
Right :)
13:20
Once free software has something that fits my needs, I usually switch to that
13:20
<markit>
well, again, me too prefer a working system than one that can't turn on
13:20
<alkisg>
But if there's no free software equivalent, I don't want to lose some functionality just to be able to say that I only use free software
13:20
<markit>
BUT don't want something that USES free software just to promote "a different OS" that is almost proprietary
13:20
<Hyperbyte>
markit, perhaps this interests you: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items
13:20
<markit>
like Android is
13:21
<alkisg>
markit: in the fsf site they have a list of distros that use properietary software by default
13:21
All of the famous distros do
13:21
The most famous that doesn't, is gnewsense
13:21
Let me see if I can find the link again...
13:21
<markit>
alkisg: you seem to ignore what I say :)
13:22
<alkisg>
markit: you say that you prefer fedora over ubuntu because it values more the user freedom, right?
13:22
<markit>
Hyperbyte: seems that fedora is not strong in ltsp, and I need ltsp
13:22
alkisg: no, I said that I need to switch to some other distro
13:22
and seemd to remember that fedora was strong in ltsp
13:22
but you tell me is not
13:22
<Hyperbyte>
markit, Fedora does have a working LTSP implementation. But if you want a strong LTSP implementation with lots of support, then you need to suck it up and get Ubuntu. ;-)
13:22
<markit>
and the main point is not have a 100% foss
13:23
can't be a succesfull deploy at school, as you know and tell me often
13:23
but I want some distro that, like debian, VALUE freedom a lot
13:23
so debian will be my first choice for ltsp and deploy
13:23
BUT was asking if there is also some other distro that has these requisites
13:23
and maybe more recent/frequent releases
13:24
<Hyperbyte>
markit, and I gave you your answer. Fedora. Glad I could help. :)
13:24
<alkisg>
And I tried to answer that question as best as I could.
13:24Gadi has left IRC (Gadi!~romm@ool-4571ca04.dyn.optonline.net, Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:24
<alkisg>
Debian is a good choice, but I still didn't understand why you think Ubuntu doesn't value freedom.
13:24
<markit>
alkisg: because of their "market", and their tendencies to "shield" users from that "bad stuff like freedom"
13:24
i.e. on homepage of Ubuntu tehre is skype
13:25
<alkisg>
and their tendencies to "shield" users from that "bad stuff like freedom" => I haven't seen such a tendency
13:25
The opposite, I think that they try to use free software wherever possible
13:25
<markit>
or they prompt you to install "restricted drivers" even if foss ones (AMD video drivers) work fine on my system
13:25
etc
13:25
<alkisg>
If that wasn't the case, they'd ship nvidia drivers and flash by default on the cd
13:25
<markit>
alkisg: they can't for license problems
13:25
<alkisg>
They can
13:26
It's easy to get an adobe agreement for flash
13:26
<markit>
you can't distribute FOSS and proprietary, AFAIK
13:26
<alkisg>
And the same is true for nvidia, you can just make a redistribution agreement
13:26
I think the main stopper is policy
13:26
As ubuntu still prefers free software
13:27
<markit>
at the moment
13:27
<alkisg>
I don't know why you think they won't do that in the future
13:27
<markit>
because you see, they are pushing for a proprietary market
13:27
<alkisg>
I haven't seen such a tendency, and I was there at UDS last week, speaking with many ubuntu devs
13:27
<markit>
because they don't mind much, just "prefer", and because I knwo how android ecosystem works
13:27
<alkisg>
OK, I can't change your view of Ubuntu. I just don't see it and I don't share your thoughts.
13:28
<markit>
alkisg: well, have a look at ubuntu forums, they never even think about freedom in their comments
13:28
<Hyperbyte>
markit, that's because end-users don't care about freedom. They want a system that works.
13:28
<alkisg>
I don't think many ubuntu devs participate at the forums, maybe you mean the users?
13:28
<markit>
yep, users, that have been "educated" by that distro
13:28
Hyperbyte: if so, better use Windows or MacOS, no?
13:29
<Hyperbyte>
markit, why?
13:29
<markit>
Hyperbyte: almost all of M$ users I know have cracked copies of their software
13:29
and so they don't have to pay and have a huge amouunt of software
13:29
and they are "cool" because they have a 1.400$ photoshop on their system
13:29
<alkisg>
(03:28:34 μμ) markit: yep, users, that have been "educated" by that distro => OK as I said I don't feel that, and I don't share your view. Anyway, I don't care much about non-technical conversations, /me goes back in developement...
13:29
<markit>
(in fact, many Ubuntu users are screaming because they want Photoshop... wondering how much, in any case, they are willing to pay for it)
13:30
alkisg: well, is a conversation, I care about your opinion even when I don't share it
13:30
so please don't take it wrong
13:31
<Hyperbyte>
markit, you need to learn to seperate interests a little. I prefer Linux because it's open source and cool (IT point of view), my boss prefers it because it saves him money (manager point of view) and users don't care either way, as long as it works (users point of view)
13:31
<markit>
Hyperbyte: I'm putting LTSP in schools because I care about freedom and want children to learn to care too
13:32
<Hyperbyte>
You can't say an OS or distro needs to "educate" users... because that doesn't work. Windows has been educating users to not pirate the OS for years, and as you've pointed out, most end users at home have an illegal copy.
13:32
<markit>
so is pointless for me give them an "experience" that puts them torward proprietary (even if different os based) experience
13:32
just I've many better ways to spend my time
13:32
and windows likes pirated copies
13:32
<Hyperbyte>
markit, get it through your skull please: users do not know and do not care about your proprietary vs. freedom argument.
13:32
<markit>
they have made it succeed
13:33
<Hyperbyte>
They only care about their experience. And rightfully so, because the last thing I need is my users asking why I'm running Ubuntu and not Fedora.
13:33
<markit>
Hyperbyte: children don't even know how to read and write, but they are educated on that
13:34
that is why I think schools is of paramount importance for FOSS future
13:34
but if you surrender to that, just leave them with windows
13:34
don't see the points of switch to GNU... you do? money?
13:34
<Hyperbyte>
markit, yes, to educate children that open source / free software can give a good user experience as well, that you don't need proprietary software to have a good experience.
13:34
<markit>
don't want they save money with my time
13:35
<alkisg>
markit: would you prefer it if kids around you used android or ms based phones? Or you wouldn't care either way?
13:35
<markit>
Hyperbyte: but if you don't tell them that is Free, they just see a "different UI" no education then
13:35
alkisg: is the same, it's proprietary for them as well
13:36
why should make a difference? they will switch to iPhone6 when will arrive
13:36
<alkisg>
Well, I would prefer for them to use android, because that gives power to *some* floss projects like linux
13:36
<markit>
with it's shinning new programs
13:36
alkisg: but if they don't know and mind about foss, what is the point? your proud?
13:36
<alkisg>
And java, etc etc
13:36
<Hyperbyte>
You need to be a software or system developer to fully understand the argument of free vs. proprietary software. Let alone care about it.
13:36
<alkisg>
markit: no, but linux continues to live + expand
13:37
So maybe in a couple of decades we can end up with a truly floss phone
13:37
While if we stop using linux because there's no true floss phone around, and linux dies, hope dies too
13:37
<markit>
Hyperbyte: Free vs proprietary is user's main problem not programmer one, that's why we (I) need to educate users
13:37
alkisg: we already talked in the past, and the conclusion is that is good to have foss spread
13:37
<alkisg>
We can't just magically reach a point where users are satisfied with floss OSes. They're just not "there" yet
13:37
<markit>
BUT
13:37
you seem to ignore that is of paramount importance to have peopoe aware of Freedom
13:38
<alkisg>
But we can use them + help them until that is possible, in the future
13:38
<Hyperbyte>
markit, no, users' main problem is that the GIMP interface sucks and that they need to spend money on Photoshop. THAT is a problem. Users don't care how GIMP or open source is licensed.
13:38
<markit>
Hyperbyte: ok, then will you spend time to install them GIMP? Not me
13:38
<alkisg>
markit: no, I don't ignore it. I believe that pushing Ubuntu in 250 schools made more people aware of software freedom, than if I tried to push. e.g. gnewsense and only managed 10 schools to use it.
13:39
<markit>
Hyperbyte: they will find a "clever friend" that gives them a cracked copy of photoshop
13:39
so or users are awarea and apreciate, or my work on foss for them is pointless
13:39
<Hyperbyte>
markit, why are you talking about users as if they're kids?
13:39
<markit>
my users are kids, lol
13:40
in any case, what do you mean?
13:40
<alkisg>
People *first* care about having a software that works for them, and *if* they get that, they can then start learning about software freedom. If you push something that "well mostly works but you need to compromise on that and that" will make them lose the whole floss point.
13:40
<Hyperbyte>
I have a license for Photoshop here... in fact, the whole CS3 suite from Adobe. Paid for it and have it installed on a computer. I don't feel guilty about it one second. There's no good open source alternative for the suite.
13:40
<markit>
alkisg: I AGREE
13:40
<Hyperbyte>
And I don't care either way, as long as it works.
13:40
<markit>
alkisg: but this does not mean that you don't have to push FOSS message STRONG, right?
13:41
<alkisg>
markit: sure, and I think Ubuntu is very strong on pushing the floss message
13:41
<markit>
and if you can choose among one that tells "FOSS freedom is not important, don't care, click here with "gratis" label"
13:41
<alkisg>
It's even stronger that what I'd like it to
13:41
<markit>
and another that tells "FOSS and freedom IS important" what will be your choice?
13:41
<alkisg>
I'd prefer flash + nvidia drivers to be in the CD, preinstalled.
13:42
<markit>
alkisg: I'll check, but I think that GPL distribution licenses forbids that
13:42
<alkisg>
There already is properietary software in most distro CDs
13:42
For kernel modules
13:42* alkisg searches for that fsf page...
13:42
<markit>
alkisg: mmm don't know with debian you have to activate a special repo
13:42Gadi has joined IRC (Gadi!~romm@ool-4571ca04.dyn.optonline.net)
13:43
<markit>
I remember SuSE had Yast that is proprietary, though... so I could be wrong
13:43
<alkisg>
markit: http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html
13:44
Not endorsed distros that already ship properietary software: Arch, Centos, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, Mandriva, Opensuse, Ubuntu, ...
13:44
And the free ones: http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
13:45bobby_C has joined IRC (bobby_C!~bobby@85-124-22-227.teleworker.xdsl-line.inode.at)
13:45
<markit>
yep, but here seems that is LIGAL distribute with proprietary software, just not good
13:45
I, but can be wrong, remember that was not legal
13:46
I mean, have GPL and non GPL on the same CD/system instalation
13:46
<alkisg>
I disagree, I believe it's good to ship proprietary software until there's a good enough floss equivalent
13:46
<markit>
alkisg: yep, I know your point, but consider also that
13:46
<alkisg>
And that's what all distros do already, just on a lower level than what I'd like
13:46tyrael2210 has left IRC (tyrael2210!~Luke@net-93-64-162-201.cust.dsl.vodafone.it, )
13:46
<alkisg>
*almost all...
13:46
<markit>
if you have a proprietary sw you reduce the need of a free one
13:47Gremble has left IRC (Gremble!~Ben@cpc12-aztw24-2-0-cust146.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com, Quit: I Leave)
13:47
<markit>
so the balance of the two needs is not that simple
13:47
and, and this is my point, the goal should be to have user's informed about the issue
13:47
while ubuntu tends, OMHO, to hide
13:47
and ignore the issue for users
13:48
I'm sure 99% of ubuntu users have no clear ideas about Freedom
13:48
<alkisg>
I don't think the users need to be informed about any case where floss is just not "there" yet. It's too technical for them.
13:48
<markit>
and will never help with donations foss projects for instances if a proprietary "gratis" one is available
13:48
alkisg: foss is an ethical and political problem, not techincal
13:48
<alkisg>
And I don't think nouveau will stop being developed if the nvidia drivers were preinstalled in the cd
13:49
Telling a user about NTFS is technical
13:49
<markit>
who knows about nouveau if you have NVIDIA since beginning?
13:49
<alkisg>
Why should users know about file systems?
13:49
<markit>
no one I guess
13:49
<alkisg>
They should just know about floss in general
13:49
Not particular apps that don't work because there's no good floss equivalent
13:49Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
13:50
<markit>
well, they should be aware of FOSS and that, as consequence, that particular program is not and so is a problem
13:50
i.e. I'm not happy to have any singular proprietary program on my system, my security is doomed
13:50
is like having "just a pari of viruses" on your system
13:50
"but most is virus free!" :)
13:51
s/pari/pair
13:51* Hyperbyte coughs
13:51
<alkisg>
markit: I'm pretty sure you *don't know* all the proprietary software in *your* system
13:51
<Hyperbyte>
So alkisg, how's the weather in Greece?
13:51
<alkisg>
And you say that kids should know it ?
13:51
Yeah let's change the topic :D
13:51
<markit>
alkisg: I say they should be aware of the principles, and see that program X is against their freedom
13:52
<Hyperbyte>
This is a neverending discussion
13:52
<markit>
like have OGM fruit on the desk
13:52
I want to know :)
13:52
Hyperbyte: well, we all know it
13:52
but I find these discussions with bright and polite people interesting
13:52
that helps me see more points of view
13:53
and try to fight "real issues"
13:53
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: it's good; but I was impressed with the weather a few days back, when we travelled from Maine (=snow) to Florida (=sunshine, only a t-shirt needed)... /me tries to map their geographical locations to some european locations to better understand why...
13:53
<Hyperbyte>
markit, you have alkisg and mine... we care more about user experience... First it has to work, then it can be free.
13:53
Let's drop it now. :)
13:53
alkisg, it's pretty hot here for the time of year.
13:53Gadi has left IRC (Gadi!~romm@ool-4571ca04.dyn.optonline.net, Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:54
<Hyperbyte>
15 degrees celcius... in november!
13:54
<markit>
lol, better weather conversation than freedom, stunning :)
13:54
<Hyperbyte>
Some weather analists are predicting the winter is gonna be bonkers mad cold... since we're having such a mild autumn.
13:55
<markit>
alkisg: btw, I've seen you droppen vinage in epoptes
13:55
is because of the "connection bug"?
13:56
or there are other advantages as well with the new client?
13:56
<alkisg>
markit: no, it's because it doesn't work at all in debian testing
13:56
<markit>
ah!
13:56
<alkisg>
(reverse connections, not the whole vinagre)
13:56
And Ubuntu Precise will probably stop shipping it by default anyway
13:56
<markit>
alkisg: btw, OMHO you should have a python constant for the name of the program
13:57
I've seen it "hard coded" instead
13:57
<alkisg>
What program?
13:57
vinagre?
13:57
<markit>
the new client Idontrememberitsname
13:57
let me check
13:57
<alkisg>
Each program needs a different command line, so it doesn't make sense to allow the user to select arbitrary programs
13:57
And also not all programs provide the functionality we need
13:58
E.g. remmina, the client that will probably be the default in Ubuntu Precise, doesn't yet support multiple reverse connections, I made a feature request for that.
13:58
<markit>
yep, is just easier to find later in the code
13:58
if you have a program called "pr" a grep is pointless
13:58
if is POINTER_RECORDER
13:59
is easier to spot
13:59
self.vncviewer = subprocess.Popen(['xvnc4viewer', '-listen'])
13:59
etc.
13:59
but just a general suggestion, maybe not the brigter one :)
14:00
<alkisg>
markit: grep -rw pr => search for whole words
14:00
<markit>
lol, never argue with a guru
14:00
<alkisg>
Haha
14:01
<pscheie_>
good morning all
14:01pscheie_ is now known as pscheie
14:02
<alkisg>
Hey pscheie
14:04
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
14:05
<alkisg>
Good morning mgariepy. Wow, Orlando is lower than Cairo...!!! That's why it was so hot there!
14:07
<mgariepy>
alkisg, are you back in greece ?
14:07
<alkisg>
Yup, finally!!!
14:07
<mgariepy>
great, didn't had too much trouble getting back ?
14:08
<markit>
urgh, just received an email from the guy that packaged Sankoré program for ubuntu (unofficial), he will stop doing that because has no time :(
14:09
<alkisg>
mgariepy: well the people at Delta couldn't find my reservation, and my trip was 40h, but nah, thankfully no real trouble
14:09
<markit>
alkisg: since you have a lot of ubuntu/debian dev friends, ehm, are them aware of sankoré project and willing to include? :)
14:09
<mgariepy>
ouch 40h that's a &^@#$ long trip
14:09
<alkisg>
markit: why? You'll stop using Ubuntu anyway, right? :D
14:09
<markit>
alkisg: yep, not so fast, I've some 11.04 installs around (3)
14:10
and as you can see, I've wrote also "debian" ;P
14:10Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
14:10
<markit>
(in reversed order of importance, lol ;))
14:10
<pscheie>
hey alkisg
14:10
<markit>
Italian government has wasted a lot of money with that "smartboards", sigh
14:11garymc has joined IRC (garymc!~chatzilla@host81-139-152-192.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
14:11
<pscheie>
alkisg, I can't get step #1 of installing epoptes to work, importing the key
14:12
<alkisg>
pscheie: you're having problems importing the key? Did you try `epoptes-client -c server` ?
14:12
<garymc>
Ive broke the GUI when I tried to change passwords in amportal.conf and manager.conf
14:12Gadi has joined IRC (Gadi!~romm@ool-4571ca04.dyn.optonline.net)
14:12
<garymc>
i now get a retrieve_conf failed message
14:12
IN GUI
14:12
anyine help me out here or am I doing a fresh install?
14:13
wrong room
14:14
<alkisg>
Yeah :)
14:17
<pscheie>
alkisg, no, I haven't even installed the packages yet.
14:18
I thought the key needed to be imported first so apt can verify the package.
14:18
<alkisg>
Aaah
14:19
There's a ppa key, and there's the epoptes server certificate, I thought you were talking about the later :D
14:19
pscheie: so you're talking about an Ubuntu machine?
14:19
<pscheie>
yes
14:19
sorry, should have been more clear.
14:19
<alkisg>
OK can you give me the commands + their output?
14:19
(the commands from the wiki)
14:19
<pscheie>
The LTSP server we use as Free Geek Twin Cities (Minneapolis) is Ubuntu
14:20
<alkisg>
http://www.epoptes.org/installation
14:20
<pscheie>
Right, that's the page I'm following.
14:20
<alkisg>
Try them all, and pastebin the errors
14:21
<pscheie>
alkisg, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/732046/
14:21
I can resolve keyserver.ubuntu.com, I just can't seem to talk to it.
14:22
<alkisg>
Can you ping it?
14:22
What's its ip?
14:22
<pscheie>
91.189.89.49
14:22
<alkisg>
That's what I have too, it replies to pings for me
14:22
<pscheie>
ping fails, too.
14:23
hmm, ok, maybe I have a router problem
14:23
yes, that must be it. I can't ping google either.
14:23Steve_the_Pirate has left IRC (Steve_the_Pirate!~Gary@host109-154-229-204.range109-154.btcentralplus.com, Quit: Leaving)
14:24
<pscheie>
Probably not a coincidence: Trying to set the upstream NIC to be available for all users via NetworkManager is broken in 10.4 apparently.
14:24
Doing so removes the connection.
14:24
<alkisg>
pscheie: what do you have in /etc/network/interfaces?
14:25
<pscheie>
interfaces has auto eth0 and auto eth1, but ifconfig shows eth1 and eth2
14:26
<alkisg>
pscheie: due to some bugs, you can either user network-manager OR /etc/network/interfaces
14:26
<pscheie>
ah, I think I see the problem: default route is for eth1, the ltsp interface
14:27
<markit>
pscheie: maybe you changed an hardware nick, in /etc/idev/rules.d/70-persistent-net you could have 3 nics, you can remove that file and reboot
14:27
<alkisg>
pscheie: advice: rm /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules to have eth0/1 get their proper names, and remove the eth0/1 entries from /etc/network/interfaces, and reboot
14:27
<markit>
ifconfig -a maybe shows all 3
14:27
alkisg: me first ;P
14:28
<alkisg>
markit: hehe but I wrote more stuff :P
14:28
<markit>
alkisg: also more precise (-net.rules), damn ;P
14:28
never compete with a guru too ;P
14:28* markit backs to his sleepy state
14:32Gadi has left IRC (Gadi!~romm@ool-4571ca04.dyn.optonline.net, Read error: Connection reset by peer)
14:32mgariepy has left IRC (mgariepy!~mgariepy@ubuntu/member/mgariepy, Quit: Leaving)
14:33
<pscheie>
alkisg, yes, it looks like I replaced a NIC at some point
14:33
I haven't looked at the box in probably a year.
14:37
<highvoltage>
good morning
14:37
<pscheie>
good morning highvoltage
14:38
<highvoltage>
how are you pscheie?
14:38
<pscheie>
I'm good. Are you back in Canada or South Africa?
14:39
<highvoltage>
back in Canada :)
14:39
(for now)
14:40
<pscheie>
So, you'll be leaving here just as winter arrives and summer appears in SA, right?
14:41
<highvoltage>
exactly.
14:42mgariepy has joined IRC (mgariepy!~mgariepy@ubuntu/member/mgariepy)
14:42
<highvoltage>
not that it was specifically planned like that, I mostly just wanted to get around the expensive tickets that you get around xmas time, and also wanted to be there for my birthday in feb. so missing a big part of winter is just a side-effect :)
14:42
<pscheie>
Good timing. It may snow here today.
14:43
alkisg, does the order of the rules in 70-persistent-net.rules matter?
14:43
That is, is it okay if eth1 is defined before eth0?
14:44
<alkisg>
pscheie: that file is autogenerated, just delete it and reboot
14:44
The order doesn't matter
14:44mgariepy has left IRC (mgariepy!~mgariepy@ubuntu/member/mgariepy, Remote host closed the connection)
14:44
<alkisg>
And the eth* name shouldn't matter either, if you're not using /etc/network/interfaces
14:46
<pscheie>
rebooting
14:46mgariepy has joined IRC (mgariepy!~mgariepy@ubuntu/member/mgariepy)
14:46* pscheie crosses fingers
14:46
<pscheie>
we'll see if I can get back in (the box is remote)
14:47
<alkisg>
Ouch, if you removed /etc/network/interfaces, you'll also need a system connection in network-manager
14:48
<pscheie>
I didn't remove /etc/network/interfaces, just the 70-persistent-net.rules
14:49
If it fails to come back up, I'll just have to wait until tonight to work on it.
14:49
<alkisg>
Let's hope the names in /etc/network/interfaces match those assigned by udev
14:49
<markit>
alkisg: btw, when I do bonding I prever having eth0 as "mother board" nic, and eth1 and eth2 add on cards to be bonded, so I change 70-persistent-net.rules names (i.e. eth1 -> eth0). Reading dmesg I've seen that
14:49Gadi has joined IRC (Gadi!~romm@ool-4571ca04.dyn.optonline.net)
14:49
<markit>
at there is a sort of "on the fly switch" during boot
14:50
scaring, I thought the name assignment were made "from the first moment"
14:50
never experienced issued due to this?
14:55
<pscheie>
alkisg, the box came up and I can connect--but the NICs are switched.
14:56
That is, the 100MB NIC got assigned as eth1 rather than eth0.
14:56
<alkisg>
pscheie: if you need them switched, edit persistent rules manually
14:56
And reboot again
14:56
<pscheie>
ok, wasn't sure if that would work
14:56
<alkisg>
Just change eth0 to eth1 in that file, and vice versa
14:56
Yup that's actually the proposed way to do it
14:56
(and the reason why that file goes in /etc)
14:59* pscheie has never been very good at knowing what is static and what is dynamic in udev
15:07Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
15:08Parker955_Away has joined IRC (Parker955_Away!~parker@74.112.203.151)
15:08Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
15:08
<alkisg>
markit: the ethX name assignments happen at initramfs when udev runs the first time, and then at the normal system when udev runs a second time
15:08
I haven't seen problems related to that, no
15:09
<markit>
alkisg: thanks a lot for the clarification, I seep better now :)
15:11
<pscheie>
alkisg, reboot worked, key is installed
15:12
although it had two default routes, one for eth1 and one for eth0, such that traffic for the outside world was being directed onto the ltsp link
15:12
I deleted that and then everything worked
15:12garymc has left IRC (garymc!~chatzilla@host81-139-152-192.in-addr.btopenworld.com, Remote host closed the connection)
15:13
<pscheie>
but where is that set? I want to disable any default routes pointing back at the ltsp subnet
15:13Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)
15:19Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
15:20Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
15:28Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
15:33
<alkisg>
pscheie: don't put a gateway for the ltsp-facing interface
15:34
<pscheie>
alkisg, I don't recall doing so. Where is that set?
15:34
<alkisg>
What do you have in /etc/network/interfaces currently?
15:35
<pscheie>
alkisg, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/732111/
15:36
<alkisg>
pscheie: with that, eth1 shouldn't be directing the traffic to the outside world...
15:36
Did you fix the route problem manually after reboot?
15:36
Also, you don't have 192.168.0.x as your eth0 subnet, right?
15:36
<pscheie>
alkisg, yes, I just deleted the default route pointing to eth1
15:37
There were two default routes, which makes no sense obviously.
15:37
It may have been a relic from the eth0-eth1/eth1-eth2 mixup.
15:37
The question is where would that be getting set, so I can remove it permanently.
15:38
I know how to do so in RHEL/Centos, but it's different on Ubuntu ;-)
15:54
<markit>
pscheie: I've no idea, if you provide a static /etc/network/interfaces, is there to act
15:54
with network manager I've no clue
15:54
I use it only on laptop (with one interface ;P)
16:00
<alkisg>
pscheie: I don't know of any places for the default routes other than /etc/network/interfaces, so maybe you put something manually in the past?
16:00
You're not using network manager, so no point in looking there...
16:03
<pscheie>
I'm always torn between using NM or doing stuff by hand in the config files.
16:04
I prefer the latter, tends to be faster; but the gui is easier for the other folks
16:05* alkisg switched to using/proposing NM since 2 years ago
16:13bobby_C has left IRC (bobby_C!~bobby@85-124-22-227.teleworker.xdsl-line.inode.at, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
16:13blueonyx has joined IRC (blueonyx!~blueonyx@wlcl-234-13.8021x-st.TU-Cottbus.De)
16:14staffencasa has joined IRC (staffencasa!~staffenca@128-193-146-230.oregonstate.edu)
16:18
<blueonyx>
hi, how to install printers on fat clients? i copied some cups config files, so cups recognizes my printers, but gnome not. my ltsp server has no gui, so i cannot install them through the gnome gui. what to do? i'm on 10.04
16:20
<alkisg>
You only need to check "share printers on the network" no the server cups configuration
16:20
You can get a server UI with a thin client, with ssh -X, or you can use the CUPS web configuration page
16:20
http://localhost:631 on a thin client
16:23
<blueonyx>
i got fat clients
16:23
<alkisg>
Yes, I was talking about fat clients
16:23
<blueonyx>
and the web interface shows the printers, but the pdf app doesnt
16:23
<alkisg>
You don't need to modify the chroot in any way
16:24
You only need to expose your server printers to the local network
16:24
You can boot a fat client as a thin temporarily, if you want to have a server GUI
16:24
Or you can use ssh -X server firefox
16:25
<blueonyx>
so i should install the printers on my server?
16:25hughessd has joined IRC (hughessd!~hughessd@173-164-117-109-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
16:25
<blueonyx>
these are network printers btw
16:25
<alkisg>
You can install them on the server and expose them there, yes, but you can also put them in the chroot, if you find a console-based way to do it
16:26komunista has joined IRC (komunista!~slavko@adsl-195-168-248-132.dynamic.nextra.sk)
16:26
<blueonyx>
i wanted to ask for the console-based way xD
16:26
<alkisg>
No idea, but it's not ltsp specific
16:26
So you can also ask in your distro's channel
16:27
<blueonyx>
okay, thanks
16:30darkpixel_ has joined IRC (darkpixel_!~darkpixel@65.100.44.217)
16:30darkpixel_ has joined IRC (darkpixel_!~darkpixel@curetheitch/staff/darkpixel)
16:33
<pscheie>
alkisg, do you know the command to call Network Manager?
16:33
<alkisg>
pscheie: do you mean the connection editor?
16:33
nm-connection-editor
16:36
<pscheie>
yes, that's it.
16:36
nuts: was hoping to find source of default route being set to the ltsp interface.
16:36
But I don't see any gateways being set in there.
16:37darkpixel_ has left IRC (darkpixel_!~darkpixel@curetheitch/staff/darkpixel, Quit: Leaving.)
16:37dobber has left IRC (dobber!~dobber@89.190.199.210, Remote host closed the connection)
16:37darkpixel_ has joined IRC (darkpixel_!~darkpixel@65.100.44.217)
16:37
<alkisg>
For every ethX interface declared /etc/network/interfaces, network-manager assumes it's "unmanaged" by it, so it doesn't touch it at all
16:38
<pscheie>
Thinking about it, won't the clients need 192.168.0.1 to be the default gw?
16:38
<alkisg>
That's why I said that there's no point in looking at nm configuration, since you're not using it
16:38
If you have localapps, yes, and you do that from dhpcd.conf
16:38
(option routers there)
16:38
<pscheie>
Oh, right, everything is on the server (I'm not using local apps)
16:39
<alkisg>
But that's only for the local apps on the thin clients, not for the server itslef
16:42
<pscheie>
alkisg, to make eth0 usable by others, I had to change managed=false to managed=true in the [ifupdown] section of /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf last night.
16:43
<alkisg>
pscheie: if you're using /etc/network/interfaces, you don't need to specify anything at all in network manager
16:43
So if you had to do something, it was probably due to the unmatched ethX names
16:43
<pscheie>
How do I know if NM is/isn't interfering?
16:44
<alkisg>
Gadi: did you recently put some code to "remember" useful vars from the initramfs? I can't find it, and I'd like to export $DEVICE to the ltsp client session...
16:44
pscheie: the panel icon shouldn't allow you to edit eth0/eth1 connnections, it should just display "unmanaged"
16:44
It shouldn't even show your connection state
16:45
<pscheie>
I can't see the panel ATM, just have an ssh session to the server.
16:45
But I can check it tonight.
16:45
<alkisg>
pscheie: you can run a session with Xephyr or with a vbox thin client etc etc
16:46
You can also check with nm-tool
16:46
(console-based)
16:49
<pscheie>
Weird: just noticed eth1 is set to 192.168.0.43, not 192.168.0.254
16:49
/etc/network/interfaces has the correct address for eth1 (.254); wonder what's changing it.
16:51
<alkisg>
pscheie: btw you didn't answer that question: (05:36:51 μμ) alkisg: Also, you don't have 192.168.0.x as your eth0 subnet, right?
16:52
<pscheie>
nope, eth0 subnet is 172.26.18.0 ATM.
16:52
Glad you mentioned it, though: I think our main network at FGTC is 192.168.0.0; should see about changing that.
16:52
But that's a problem for another day.
16:53blueonyx has left IRC (blueonyx!~blueonyx@wlcl-234-13.8021x-st.TU-Cottbus.De, Quit: leaving)
16:53
<alkisg>
Maybe your problems are indeed caused by network manager. That wouldn't happen with the default installation, but if you modified "managed" in the configuration files, I don't know what the effects would be.
16:53
<pscheie>
As I recall, if I want to use a different subnet for ltsp, it's just a matter of changing the dhcpd.conf, and perhaps lts.conf (?)
16:54
<alkisg>
Why don't you delete all connections at /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections, and reboot?
16:54
<pscheie>
ok, I'll try it.
16:54
<alkisg>
dhcpd and /etc/network/interfaces
16:54
(move them instead of deleting , just in case)
16:54
<pscheie>
Right, the addy for the interface itself would have to change, too.
16:55
oh yes, I always do mv rather than rm. ;-)
16:56
<knipwim>
http://www.raspberrypi.org/
16:57
the ideal thin client!
17:13garymc has joined IRC (garymc!~chatzilla@81.138.225.164)
17:19komunista has left IRC (komunista!~slavko@adsl-195-168-248-132.dynamic.nextra.sk, Quit: Leaving.)
17:26Steve_the_Pirate has joined IRC (Steve_the_Pirate!~Gary@host109-154-229-204.range109-154.btcentralplus.com)
17:28komunista has joined IRC (komunista!~slavko@adsl-195-168-248-132.dynamic.nextra.sk)
17:33ry has left IRC (ry!~ry@static-71-183-64-28.nycmny.fios.verizon.net, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
17:41Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
17:45garymc has left IRC (garymc!~chatzilla@81.138.225.164, Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238])
17:45ry has joined IRC (ry!~ry@static-71-183-64-28.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
17:47m29poff has joined IRC (m29poff!~m29poff@96.255.90.79.rev.sfr.net)
17:49m29poff has joined IRC (m29poff!~m29poff@96.255.90.79.rev.sfr.net)
17:54
<pscheie>
knipwim, just don't order them from http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/312
17:55[GuS] has joined IRC ([GuS]!~MysT@213-117-16-190.fibertel.com.ar)
17:55[GuS] has joined IRC ([GuS]!~MysT@unaffiliated/gus/x-663402)
17:55
<pscheie>
or rather http://www.raspberrypi.ru/
18:06
<highvoltage>
nice.
18:06
FYI: The status of the ltspfs source package
18:06
in Debian's testing distribution has changed.
18:06
Previous version: 0.9-1 Current version: 1.0-1
18:08darkpixel_ has left IRC (darkpixel_!~darkpixel@65.100.44.217, Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
18:08komunista has left IRC (komunista!~slavko@adsl-195-168-248-132.dynamic.nextra.sk, Quit: Leaving.)
18:10Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
18:18jhutchins has left IRC (jhutchins!~jonathan@64-151-37-66.dyn.everestkc.net, Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
18:19jhutchins has joined IRC (jhutchins!~jonathan@64-151-37-66.dyn.everestkc.net)
18:21Steve_the_Pirate has left IRC (Steve_the_Pirate!~Gary@host109-154-229-204.range109-154.btcentralplus.com, Quit: Leaving)
18:34artista-frustrad has left IRC (artista-frustrad!~fernando@200.247.43.2, Quit: Leaving)
18:45pscheie has left IRC (pscheie!~pscheie@74-95-141-141-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net, *.net *.split)
18:45shogunx has left IRC (shogunx!~shogunx@rrcs-67-79-182-232.se.biz.rr.com, *.net *.split)
18:45F-GT has left IRC (F-GT!~phantom@ppp121-44-137-22.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net, *.net *.split)
18:45pmatulis has left IRC (pmatulis!~peter@64.34.151.178, *.net *.split)
18:45knipwim has left IRC (knipwim!~wim@ip4da83870.direct-adsl.nl, *.net *.split)
18:46pscheie has joined IRC (pscheie!~pscheie@74-95-141-141-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
18:46shogunx has joined IRC (shogunx!~shogunx@rrcs-67-79-182-232.se.biz.rr.com)
18:46pmatulis has joined IRC (pmatulis!~peter@64.34.151.178)
18:46F-GT has joined IRC (F-GT!~phantom@ppp121-44-137-22.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net)
18:46knipwim has joined IRC (knipwim!~wim@ip4da83870.direct-adsl.nl)
18:54jhutchins has left IRC (jhutchins!~jonathan@64-151-37-66.dyn.everestkc.net, Read error: Connection reset by peer)
18:58khildin has joined IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip166-155-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
19:03khildin has left IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip166-155-209-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl, Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
19:06vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@75-150-46-245-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
19:07
<alkisg>
vagrantc, Gadi, don't we have some overlapping now with ltsp_config.d/* and with initramfs-scripts.d/* ?
19:18khildin has joined IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-80-236-227-210.dsl.scarlet.be)
19:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: could be
19:26Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
19:34khildin has left IRC (khildin!~khildin@ip-80-236-227-210.dsl.scarlet.be, Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
19:40lifeboy has joined IRC (lifeboy!~roland@41.183.26.154)
19:47Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)
19:56[GuS] has left IRC ([GuS]!~MysT@unaffiliated/gus/x-663402, Remote host closed the connection)
20:19m29poff has left IRC (m29poff!~m29poff@96.255.90.79.rev.sfr.net, Quit: Ex-Chat)
20:26vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@75-150-46-245-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
20:26Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
20:27vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@75-150-46-245-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
20:39
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I want to separate the "special" files, e.g. epoptes-client.desktop, manpage, /usr/sbin/*, and put them in a different dir, than the files that go to /usr/share/epoptes-client/*, so that I can use globs in setup.py
20:39
Any hints? I'm thinking of putting the special files in epoptes-client/*, and the other ones in epoptes-client/share/*
20:46
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the other thing i was wondering is if the client variant of epoptes-client and the user variant should be separate programs ... even if they share a lot of the same code, it would be easier to explain debugging
20:47
alkisg: but i'm not real savvy with python and how it *should* be structured
20:47* _UsUrPeR_ tips his hat
20:47
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I lost you - do you mean the epoptes-client that we start as root, vs the one we start inside the user session?
20:48
(which is the same program)
20:48
Hi _UsUrPeR_
20:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: they do different things depending on context, though, no?
20:48
<_UsUrPeR_>
hey all. I am getting a kernel panic on a PXE boot due to a ethernet driver missing for an Atheros AR8152 Fast Ethernet Card. How does one go about compiling drivers in the chroot to get around a problem like this?
20:49
<alkisg>
vagrantc: not really, it's mostly the same code with just a few "if"s
20:49
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: first, i'd check if it's available as a module and just not loading ...
20:49
<alkisg>
!adding-modules
20:49
<ltsp>
alkisg: adding-modules: If your clients won't boot with messages like 'eth0: link not ready', maybe you're missing an initramfs-module: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AddingModules
20:49
<vagrantc>
and apparently, there's already good docs for that :)
20:49
<alkisg>
:)
20:50
...if he's using ubuntu/debian in this case
20:50
(although debian testing+ shouldn't have that problem anymore)
20:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
oh, this is 10.04
20:50
forgot to mention that part :3
20:50* _UsUrPeR_ reads things he was linked
20:51
<alkisg>
E.g. maybe you're just missing atl1c
20:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
that is what appears to be missing, yes
20:51
<alkisg>
Yup that's the exact page you need
20:51
<_UsUrPeR_>
strange
20:52
:)
20:52
so this module is included in ubuntu? I just had this individual attempt to boot this particular client with a livecd, and ethernet was not working for him still... That's a brand new 10.04.3 cd he downloaded today
20:54
<alkisg>
The live cd initializes the ethernet card after the initramfs, so all modules are there
20:54
So if it doesn't work in the live cd, then the adding-modules page won't help - you don't need atl1c but some other module
20:54
Boot the client with e.g. oneiric 11.10 and run lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 Ethernet to see the module you need - if it works there
20:55
If it doesn't... google for the module you need and how to get it :D
20:55
Maybe you need to install a backported kernel in the chroot
20:56
If the card is so new that the module isn't there in the 10.04 kernel
20:56
I.e. something like this in the chroot: apt-get install linux-image-generic-lts-backport-natty
20:58Mava has left IRC (Mava!~Mava@ip-45-224.dhcp.opintanner.fi, Quit: leaving)
20:58hughessd has left IRC (hughessd!~hughessd@173-164-117-109-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net, Quit: gone for some reason)
21:00Mava has joined IRC (Mava!~Mava@ip-45-224.dhcp.opintanner.fi)
21:03
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: thanks
21:03
I'll give this a shot
21:04vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@75-150-46-245-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net, Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
21:05
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: is it possible to compile thse in an ltsp environment?
21:05
Sorry, I am jumping around
21:05
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: don't start there, you may only need a newer kernel
21:06
Just try installing the newer kernel, or try a newer live cd, whatever's easiest for you
21:06
Do you have the card pci id?
21:07
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: No. That will not be something quickly gotten.
21:10
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog/component/pci:2062:1969-NETWORK
21:10
If it's that, it says that at least in 11.04 it's available without installing anything
21:10
So you just need the command I wrote above to put the natty kernel in the chroot
21:14
(and the adding-modules page as well)
21:18Mava has left IRC (Mava!~Mava@ip-45-224.dhcp.opintanner.fi, Remote host closed the connection)
21:20garymc has joined IRC (garymc!~chatzilla@host86-176-88-100.range86-176.btcentralplus.com)
21:21Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
21:23mgariepy has left IRC (mgariepy!~mgariepy@ubuntu/member/mgariepy, Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
21:37Trixboxer has left IRC (Trixboxer!~Trixboxer@office.supportdepartment.net, Quit: "Achievement is not the end, its the beginning of new journey !!!")
21:43Mava has joined IRC (Mava!~Mava@ip-45-224.dhcp.opintanner.fi)
21:52Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
22:11garymc has left IRC (garymc!~chatzilla@host86-176-88-100.range86-176.btcentralplus.com, Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243])
22:14bobby_C has joined IRC (bobby_C!~bobby@85-124-22-227.teleworker.xdsl-line.inode.at)
22:15Damianos has joined IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net)
22:25lifeboy has left IRC (lifeboy!~roland@41.183.26.154, Quit: Ex-Chat)
22:25lifeboy has joined IRC (lifeboy!~roland@41.183.26.154)
22:49markit has left IRC (markit!~marco@88-149-177-66.staticnet.ngi.it, Read error: Operation timed out)
22:55alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
23:19markit has joined IRC (markit!~marco@88-149-177-66.staticnet.ngi.it)
23:19gentgeen__ has left IRC (gentgeen__!~kevin@c-98-236-71-64.hsd1.pa.comcast.net, Remote host closed the connection)
23:24gentgeen__ has joined IRC (gentgeen__!~kevin@c-98-236-71-64.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
23:28bobby_C has left IRC (bobby_C!~bobby@85-124-22-227.teleworker.xdsl-line.inode.at, Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:32markit has left IRC (markit!~marco@88-149-177-66.staticnet.ngi.it, )
23:43artista-frustrad has joined IRC (artista-frustrad!~fernando@189.30.138.160)
23:45Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
23:46artista-frustrad has left IRC (artista-frustrad!~fernando@189.30.138.160, Remote host closed the connection)
23:4616WAATSL4 <16WAATSL4!~fernando@189.30.138.160> has joined #ltsp
23:54Damianos has left IRC (Damianos!~Damianos@adsl-070-145-074-043.sip.cha.bellsouth.net, Quit: Damianos)