IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 November 2010   (all times are UTC)

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02:27
<jimishol>
i managed to install ltsp in hope that my sun could play 3d accelarated games with his thin client computer using graphic card of the server. I'm afraid this is not the case. Should i continue searching or it is not possible to use server's graphic card capabilities? txs
02:28
<alkisg>
X server uses the graphics card of the client it runs on. If it supports 3D (e.g. some intel cards), it'll use it.
02:32
<jimishol>
so i use client's card but server's disk , processor and ram ?
02:32
<alkisg>
Right
02:40
<jimishol>
wanted to test ltsp from my laptop using wireless connection i had to boot from virtual machine within laptop's linux. should i create some live boot disk that should allow me to boot with wireless connection so as the client's user to have the option to boot in some light os or through server using ltsp
02:41
<alkisg>
You want to boot your son's PC through wireless?
02:42
<jimishol>
yes or buy 25m cable. its something i have to decide
02:42
<alkisg>
What are the specs of that PC? cpu/ram/graphics card?
02:42
(and HD, if any?)
02:44
<jimishol>
hmm :) 196Mb ram, 400Mz cpu some 20Gb disk that has xubuntu installed as for graphics card i am not sure i'll check but i could find some chip card with 3d accelaration i guess
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08:59
<mnemoc>
hi, noob question, any idea why br1 isn't getting the primary ip address i need http://dpaste.com/275126/ ?
09:00
br1/eth1 is connected to the switch where the thin clients will live
09:05
there is no error message, or warning, but br1 doesn't have an ip :<
09:10
anything "obvisly" missing in that interfaces file?
09:29
\o/
09:30
it was static instead of manual :p
09:30
damn noob
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10:02
<Trixboxer>
Hi, could someone please tell me where does the lts.conf resides in ubuntu 10.04 ?
10:03
Im setting up NFS home and I made changes in /etc/lts.conf in client environment, but kernel seems not knowing the new changes
10:04
<mnemoc>
/var/lib/tftpboot/ usually
10:04
so clients can fetch it
10:04
<Trixboxer>
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/ ? or /var/lib/tftpboot/ ?
10:04
<mnemoc>
parallel to the pxelinux.0 you are using
10:04
<Trixboxer>
ok
10:05
thanks
10:05
<mnemoc>
yw
10:06
<Trixboxer>
mnemoc: Do I need to build the client once again ?
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10:08
<mnemoc>
no, just restart and it will grab it
10:09
<Trixboxer>
ok let me see :)
10:09
do you know the difference between the --fat-client --fat-client-desktop ? I'm little confused
10:11
<mnemoc>
no clue, i'm noob
10:11
<Trixboxer>
so I'm noob^2..
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10:22
<mnemoc>
Trixboxer: the difference is that I already had some fun looking at the logs of tftpd :)
10:22
in verbose mode
10:23
<Trixboxer>
hmm, what you saw
10:23
?
10:23
<mnemoc>
client trying to fetch a not existant lts.conf file :)
10:24
so I was able to answer your question
10:24
<Trixboxer>
oh you mean the file must be in pxelinux.0 dir ?
10:24
<mnemoc>
pxelinux.cfg is a dir, .0 is a file
10:25
client moves to the dir where pxelinux.0 lives, and does everything from there
10:25
<Trixboxer>
yes
10:29
<alkisg>
Trixboxer: --fat-client == install the same DE that the server already has. --fat-client-desktop == specify a DE in the command line.
10:31
<Trixboxer>
oh cool
10:32
is there any doc which specifies what all type of desktops I can have ?
10:32
<mnemoc>
DE = gnome, xfce, kde, lxde, ...
10:34
<alkisg>
ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-desktop etc
10:35
<Trixboxer>
ok, client build up is going on.. will try some desktops
10:35
I like kde
10:35
<alkisg>
Not all of them are verified to work
10:36
E.g. kubuntu-desktop will probably get to kdm instead of gdm, and you'd have to manually switch to ldm after the installation...
10:37
(not verified to work == on a fat chroot with the current installation method, I mean)
10:37
<Trixboxer>
ok.. I got it
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11:00
<mnemoc>
any idea why ubuntu documentation suggests to use dnsmasq for giving dns to thin clients but not for tftp or dhcp? isn't it cleaner to centralize all the configuration in one tool in the cases where it's possible? (like with dnsmasq)
11:00
<alkisg>
mnemoc: what ubuntu documentation? link?
11:01
<mnemoc>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToSetupLTSPDevelEnvironment
11:01
<alkisg>
mnemoc: those are community wiki pages, any person writes there whatever he thinks is useful
11:02
<mnemoc>
alkisg: and what do you think? :)
11:02
<alkisg>
E.g. I'm using dnsmasq for dns and proxydhcp, but not tftp. If you want to use dnsmasq for everything, just go for it...
11:02
<mnemoc>
any reason to not use dnsmasq for dhcp/tftp in an ltsp network?
11:02
<alkisg>
LTSP comes with a dependency on tftpd-hpa, so I don't want to have to workaround it on installations, and never had problems with it. So I'm just leaving it there and use dnsmasq for the rest
11:03
I.e. you can't remove tftpd-hpa, you need to disable it.
11:03
<mnemoc>
ic
11:04
<alkisg>
dhcp3-server is a dependency on ltsp-server-standalone, but not on ltsp-server. So it's much easier to remove it and use dnsmasq for dhcp.
11:04
Hmm sorry it seems that was changed in Lucid
11:04
tftpd-hpa is in "Recommends:" now, so it's easy to remove it as well.
11:05* mnemoc shooting dhcp3-server down
11:05
<alkisg>
mnemoc: before you do, verify that you don't have ltsp-server-standalone installed
11:05
Ooooh sorry again, changed in Lucid too :D
11:05
Nice, so that can be harmlessly removed even if one installed ltsp-server-standalone.
11:06
<mnemoc>
I do... but it doidn't ask me to uninstall any other package
11:06
:D
11:06
<alkisg>
It used to be in "Depends:", but it's now in "Recommends:", probably thanks to stgraber :)
11:06* mnemoc likes to clean up machines
11:17
<AndyGraybeal>
do you guys mind if i ask NFS questions here? i kno it's off topic., if you do mind, where do you recommend i go?
11:18
<alkisg>
AndyGraybeal: generally when there's not much traffic on the channel people here don't mind about slightly off-topic questions, so yeah just go ahead and ask
11:18
<Trixboxer>
alkisg: hi, Im doing NFS Home, as far now I have kept my lts.conf in tftpboot i386 dir and then updated the image and rebooted the client.. but the kernel is not using NFS_HOME
11:18
<alkisg>
Did you install nfs-client on your chroot?
11:19
<Trixboxer>
yeah nfs-common
11:19
<alkisg>
And is your /home exported on the server?
11:20
<Trixboxer>
yes
11:20
<alkisg>
On the server, try: sudo mount -t nfs server-ip:/home /mnt
11:20
Scratch that
11:20
Go on a client and try it from there
11:21
<Trixboxer>
ok
11:21
<AndyGraybeal>
do you have to type mount -t nfs4 ?
11:21
<alkisg>
(you'll need root access, do you know how to get it on fat clients?)
11:21
<AndyGraybeal>
or just nfs?
11:21
<Trixboxer>
plain nfs
11:21
<alkisg>
AndyGraybeal: nfs for v3, nfs4 for v4
11:21
<AndyGraybeal>
ah ok
11:22
i love the nfs4 acl's. i'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this.
11:23
<Trixboxer>
alkisg: could you please share the lts.conf and its location ?
11:23
<alkisg>
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
11:23
[Default]
11:23
NFS_HOME=/home
11:24
<Trixboxer>
ok i think I dont have [Default] in it
11:24
<alkisg>
AndyGraybeal: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SettingUpNFSHowTo#NFSv4%20quick%20start
11:24
<AndyGraybeal>
alkisg: i've been reading this :) thank you though for the link.
11:24* alkisg wants to switch to NFS4 too on the next ubuntu lts...
11:25
<Trixboxer>
alkisg: and after that I just need to do ltsp-update-image ?
11:25
<AndyGraybeal>
i think i need the ACL functions of NFS4
11:25
<alkisg>
Trixboxer: no, just reboot the client, but...
11:25
...also put SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm to get root access if you need it for troubleshooting
11:25
!screen_02
11:25
<ltspbot>
alkisg: Error: "screen_02" is not a valid command.
11:26
<alkisg>
!SCREEN_02
11:26
<ltspbot>
alkisg: Error: "SCREEN_02" is not a valid command.
11:26
<alkisg>
dah
11:26
!shell
11:26
<ltspbot>
alkisg: Error: "shell" is not a valid command.
11:26* alkisg forgot the factoid name :(
11:29
<Trixboxer>
aah, my TFTP ..
11:30
Error: Failed to connect to NBD server
11:30
<komunista>
please, has ltspbot some interface to list all info in it?
11:31
<alkisg>
No idea, it's a supybot so I guess there's a man page for it somewhere
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11:33
<AndyGraybeal>
alkisg: i must confess, i've been using openindiana to play with zfs and nfs4 due to their compatibility with ACLs
11:33
alkisg: i'm going to bring up an Ubuntu 10.04 NFS Server to see if i can get it to work better.
11:34
alkisg: i'm donloading freebsd also because it supports zfs
11:34
<Trixboxer>
alkisg: I can see that home dir is able to get mounted on chrooted environment
11:34
<alkisg>
Trixboxer: from a thin client?
11:34
*fat
11:35
<Trixboxer>
no.. fat client is not yet started due to NBD error.. Im chrooting through server
11:36
<alkisg>
Maybe solve the NBD problem first, and then the NFS problem?
11:37
E.g. you may not have an NFS problem at all, after putting [Default] in lts.conf
11:37
<Trixboxer>
Dont you think that "/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default" should have some info about NFS rather than NBD ?
11:37
yes [Default] is there
11:38
<alkisg>
No, as NFS isn't used for booting
11:38
<Trixboxer>
ok
11:38
<alkisg>
I think you need to look into your NBD problem first, before troubleshooting NFS on fat clients that won't boot
11:38
<Trixboxer>
its a NBD port mismatch
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11:47
<Trixboxer>
NBD working now
11:47
<alkisg>
komunista: e.g.:
11:47
!factoids search #ltsp b*
11:47
<ltspbot>
alkisg: 'bestltspdistro', 'bootfloppy', 'bbq', 'bts', and 'button_layout'
11:47
<alkisg>
!factoids search #ltsp c*
11:47
<ltspbot>
alkisg: 'checklist' and 'compiz'
11:47
<alkisg>
etc etc
11:48
<Trixboxer>
logs are showing that the /home folder is mounted
11:48
<komunista>
alkisg: nice and sufficient :-)
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11:49
<Trixboxer>
but now the login screen stucks at verifying password and then No response from server
11:51
<alkisg>
Did you change your server's ip?
11:51
<Trixboxer>
yes
11:51
<alkisg>
You need sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image every time you change your server IP
11:51
<Trixboxer>
ok, I did ltsp-update-sshkeys.. updating the image now
11:51
<AndyGraybeal>
or if you install openssh
11:52
<alkisg>
That should be automatically installed as an ltsp-server dependency, before the chroot is built
11:53
<AndyGraybeal>
i installed openssh onto my clients.. and i could not log on, that was just to weeks ago. alkisg helped me out :)
11:53
<alkisg>
On the clients?! And that affected the server keys?!
11:53
<AndyGraybeal>
something made it so no one could log in, i don't get it.
11:53
i did the update ssh key thing, lik eyou said and all was well
11:54
the IT gods hate me :)
11:54
<alkisg>
:D
11:55* alkisg doesn't use sshkeys at all... unsecure, but it allows for a dynamic server IP, e.g. a laptop as an ltsp server
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12:08
<uday>
I'm planning to deploy ltsp5 on debian lenny for my college
12:08
<Trixboxer>
uday: How many clients ?
12:08
<uday>
expected number of clients is 25 with at least a dual core cpu with 512 MB RAM
12:09
Confused about choice of server confuguration.
12:10
<Trixboxer>
uday: Go for fat clients if you can.. they are really good in production environment for me.. and the important part is you need not worry about server config
12:10
you can have same machine as that of any client
12:12
<uday>
here my intended purpose is for net surfing by students for academic purposes at maximum
12:12
and keeping the data at one place
12:15
<Trixboxer>
yes, it will work
12:15
are you expecting 25 at a time ?
12:16
<uday>
yes 25 at a time. or may be 2 or 3 of them doing simple word processing or so.
12:17
<alkisg>
Client specs? cpu/ram?
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12:17
<AndyGraybeal>
okay, forgive me, but how do i get around NFS's nogroup, nouser thing when my client connects?
12:17
or is that normal?
12:18
<uday>
client is at least an intel Dual core with 512 MB
12:18
<alkisg>
For thin clients, you'll need much more ram on the server, at least 2 Gb
12:18
For fat clients your server + clients are modest but OK, but I'm not sure if they're supported on Lenny.
12:19
<johnny>
AndyGraybeal, normal probably..
12:19
depending on what you mean tho
12:20
<alkisg>
If you choose fat clients, the dual core CPU is more than OK but 512 RAM are the lowest minimum for booting a normal linux os nowadays...
12:20
<AndyGraybeal>
johnny: i'm hoping to have groups with access to only the directories that their group owns.
12:21
but maybe i just need to read more.
12:21
<Trixboxer>
uday: why not ubuntu 10.04 lucid ?
12:22
or 10.10 maverick ?
12:22
<crazed>
awesome :) local apps are cool
12:22
firefox runs much better now
12:22
and saves a ton of resources on the ltsp server
12:23
<Trixboxer>
crazed: on thin client ?
12:23
<crazed>
yes
12:24
<Trixboxer>
crazed: hmm.. I use fat ones.. and was still having problem with firefox but now after changing the hardware of thin clients all runs smooth
12:24
<crazed>
the thin client hardware here is like 1ghz processor and 512mb of ram
12:24
only firefox runs from it
12:24
<Trixboxer>
:)
12:25
I have 1.8ghz and 1gb+ ram
12:25
<crazed>
yeah i think the new ones are somewhere around there
12:25
but the majority are still the old ones
12:25
<Trixboxer>
alkisg: NFS home is working good.. just adding few more users and rebuilding the image with "chrome" browser
12:26
<alkisg>
Trixboxer: just keep in mind that NFS for /home has some security implications
12:26
<uday>
I had thought of intel core i7 with 4GB RAM as server for 25 clients of dual core and 512 MB or the same server with intel atom+512 MB RAM
12:26
<Trixboxer>
yeah
12:26
<uday>
do you think I should go for a fat client
12:26
<crazed>
i'm doing ldap for users, keeps uid/gid mappsing sane across ltsp servers
12:26
<Trixboxer>
reading automount.. but I dont think that will help in this env
12:26
<AndyGraybeal>
yes, this uid/gid thing is a nightmare.
12:27
<Trixboxer>
automount has good feature.. using it I can mount the home dir of only that user5 who logs in
12:27
<crazed>
that is pretty cool
12:27
<Trixboxer>
uday: I would say yes..
12:27
crazed: cluster ?
12:27
<crazed>
nah no cluster
12:27
just different ones per location
12:28
<Trixboxer>
ok
12:28
<alkisg>
uday: If you want lenny, I'd suggest the better server + using localapps because I'm not sure about lenny's fat client support. If you're ok with switching to Ubuntu, I'd suggest keeping your existing server + using fat clients. But that's just a personal suggestion, better try your options yourself and see what works best for you.
12:28
<uday>
I hope now i need to read a little more
12:29
<Trixboxer>
Yooo chrome worked flawlessly :)
12:29
thanks alkisg and all
12:29
<uday>
thanks all
12:29
<alkisg>
Trixboxer: we're using it here in a lot of schools, yup, works fine :)
12:29
<uday>
see you soon with something like that
12:30
<alkisg>
Most schools here have fat clients setups and clients with < 512 RAM boot automatically as thin clients
12:30
(from the same chroot)
12:30
<Trixboxer>
and wow I can also peek in other users home dir :)
12:30
just kidding .. I dont want that.. hey I can do one thing
12:30
idea
12:31
<alkisg>
chmod 700 /home/* :D
12:31
<Trixboxer>
hmm.. idea cancel.. was not feasible
12:32
will try alkisg
12:32
your idea
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12:33
<Trixboxer>
alkisg: Great.. its safe now :)
12:33
<AndyGraybeal>
crazed: are you using ldap/kerb ?
12:33
<crazed>
i have a question regarding the LDM_SERVER setting, i can select various hosts from that variable
12:33
AndyGraybeal: nah just ldap
12:34
but doesn't seem to be able to login to any of the other ones
12:34
i get a request timed out error
12:34
<Trixboxer>
ok guys.. its my sleeping time now.. good night
12:34
<crazed>
where would the logs for this be?
12:34
<AndyGraybeal>
night trixboxer
12:34
<alkisg>
Night
12:34
<Trixboxer>
AndyGraybeal: bye.. I thinks its day at your side :)
12:34
think*
12:34
noon
12:35
<alkisg>
crazed: distro/version?
12:35
<crazed>
alkisg: ubuntu 10.04
12:35
<alkisg>
!localxterm
12:35
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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12:35
<alkisg>
crazed: logon to the server that works, then open a localxterm, and inside it run: ssh user@other-server
12:35
See if you get any warnings about keys etc, then it's an ssh-keys problem
12:36
<crazed>
hm
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12:36
<crazed>
ah would the whole accepting the rsa key cause the isue?
12:36
<alkisg>
Yes
12:37
Better yet try it from SCREEN_02=shell
12:37
(instead of from a localxterm)
12:37
Then if you accept the keys on the command line, ldm will also work until you reboot
12:38
<crazed>
ah
12:38
so should i get into the chroot
12:38
actually how do i solve that
12:38
<AndyGraybeal>
update keys?
12:38
<crazed>
what do you mean
12:39
<AndyGraybeal>
i'm waiting for alkisg :)
12:39
ssh-update-keys or something
12:39
<alkisg>
!learn SCREEN_02 as To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client, put these in your lts.conf: [Default]{enter}SCREEN_02=shell{enter}SCREEN_07=ldm{enter}. Then reboot the client, and press Alt+Ctrl+F2 to get to the root shell.
12:39
<ltspbot>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
12:39
<alkisg>
AndyGraybeal, crazed, no, manual import of the other PC's ssh keys would be needed
12:40
I think ltsp-cluster automates all that, but I've never used it.
12:40
<AndyGraybeal>
aah interesting.
12:40
<crazed>
manual import of the keys
12:40
to where?
12:41
<alkisg>
To the chroot /etc/ssh
12:41
So that they know the servers they're connecting to
12:41
<crazed>
ah!
12:41
<alkisg>
Try the SCREEN_02=shell trick first to verify that this is indeed your problem.
12:41
<crazed>
under ssh_known_hosts
12:41
okay
12:48
awesome, that was the problem!
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13:00
<mnemoc>
hi, does this panic http://dpaste.com/275190/ on nbd (ubuntu 10.10) look familiar to anyone?
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14:13
<alkisg>
Can anyone suggest a very cheap thin client? Anything small with even 128MB RAM would do...
14:14
<mnemoc>
lucidatech's lt1600 is US$103 fob
14:15
<alkisg>
Looks good!
14:16
<mnemoc>
that price includes a 128M DOM too
14:16
<alkisg>
What does DOM mean?
14:16
<mnemoc>
disk-on-module
14:16
basically local storage
14:16
<alkisg>
Ah, something like an embedded usb stick? Nice!
14:16
<mnemoc>
they are usually flash on ide
14:17
faking an idea harddrive
14:17
ide*
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14:18
<mnemoc>
lt2600 (with parallel port) is US$120 per unit
14:19
<alkisg>
Nah, I don't even need a vga/audio port :D
14:19
<mnemoc>
:)
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14:34
<alkisg>
mnemoc: about the kernel panic, never seen that, but nbd9 is used for "testing if a newer image is available, and if it is, reboot in 10 secs". So you can safely comment out that part of the code if you wish.
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<cliebow>
heyhey..i am in the hands of the enemy..sent to take Apple training
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