IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 7 March 2012   (all times are UTC)

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01:55
<robehend1>
is it possible to run a fatclient with the lubuntu-desktop metapackage on 11.10?
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08:38
<dobber>
do you have any tips on how to debug a crash issue on fat client ?
08:38
thunderbird crashes very often on a few boxes
08:38
randomly :(
08:40
<alkisg>
How much ram do those fat clients have?
08:50
<dobber>
around 4gb
08:50
it was the first thing we upgraded
08:50
indexing is off on tb
08:51
but the mailboxes are around 2gb anyway
08:57
<alkisg>
Is there anything else crashing? E.g. firefox? Or it's just thunderbird?
09:05
<dobber>
skype
09:08
<alkisg>
If other media-related apps are crashing, it may be a problem with your graphics driver
09:08
If not, it may be a problem with sshfs, you can try toggling SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS
09:08
Check dmesg and ~/.xsession-errors
09:17
<dobber>
hm i recently played with graphic drivers
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09:51
<srdjo>
@alkisg Hi alkisg
09:51
<alkisg>
Hello
09:52
<srdjo>
just want to give you some more information about the problem with ltsp Fat client printing
09:52
the only problem is enabling printer sharing
09:52
because printer remains installed after logoff and even after restart
09:53
<alkisg>
Since you opened a bug report about it, it'd be best to put the info there, for the developer that will hopefully work on the problem
09:53
<srdjo>
I will do it
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09:53
<alkisg>
A cupsctl call should probably be enough
09:54
<srdjo>
just wanted to ask if you could point me to the way of making startup script that will enable the sharing
09:54
where to put it ?
09:54
<alkisg>
In RCFILE_01 in lts.conf
09:54
!lts.conf
09:54
<ltsp>
alkisg: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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09:57
<srdjo>
the command for enabling printer sharing is "cupsctl --share-printers" - do i put it in the file as plain text or is something more needed ?
09:58
<alkisg>
Don't put it in any file, just call it
09:58
RCFILE_01="/usr/sbin/cupsctl --share-printers"
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10:10
<fossala>
Gnome-settings-manager won't start on my thin clients but will on my server. This means my gnome-settings aren't being applied. Any idea what I can do?
10:13
<srdjo>
@alkisg - The RCFILE way is not working - sharing is still disabled. Since CUPS requires the root account on FAT client to enable it via GUI, is there a way to run it as root and pass password ? username: "root" - password: "root123"
10:21
<alkisg>
!SCREEN_02 | echo srdjo:
10:21
<ltsp>
srdjo: SCREEN_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
10:21
<alkisg>
Try cupsctl from that SCREEN_02 shell
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13:50
<elcot_>
!ltsp
13:50
<ltsp>
elcot_: ltsp: LTSP is the Linux Terminal Server Project, the open source thin client solution. You can find it at http://www.ltsp.org
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13:50
<elcot_>
!tftp
13:50
<ltsp>
elcot_: tftp: Here's a page to help you troubleshoot TFTP problems in Ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
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13:51
<elcot_>
!ndb-server
13:51
<ltsp>
elcot_: Error: "ndb-server" is not a valid command.
13:51
<elcot_>
!nbd
13:51
<ltsp>
elcot_: I do not know about 'nbd', but I do know about these similar topics: 'disable-nbd-proxy', 'nbd-proxy', 'nbd-compression', 'quick-nbd-tests'
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15:42
<LuizAngioletti>
Hyperbyte: Hello there!
15:43
Hyperbyte: Was it you who told me worked with ltsp based computer labs?
15:43
I mean, different schools and hardware sets.
15:51
<Hyperbyte>
No, I don't work for any schools.
15:52
<LuizAngioletti>
Hyperbyte: ok then. =P My mistake, =)
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15:55
<andygraybeal>
hi Hyperbyte, LuizAngioletti, alkisg !!!!
15:55
<alkisg>
Hello
15:55
<LuizAngioletti>
andygraybeal: Hi there
15:55
<andygraybeal>
:))))
15:56
<LuizAngioletti>
So to let you know.. and maybe you have considerations about it: I just read an article about DNS Round-Robin implementation for load-balancing of LTSP servers.
15:57
With /home shared via NFS and LDAP authentication.
15:58
The article argues that it might be a good solution for disposing more than 4GB for the set of clients without having to use a 64bit system.
15:58
for the server, of cours.e
15:59
<alkisg>
The default -pae kernel sees 64mb ram in 32bit systems
15:59
*GB
16:00
<LuizAngioletti>
alkisg: the problem most of times is just motherboard slots, anyway... at least with older hardware.
16:01
do you folks know sikuli?
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16:02
<andygraybeal>
sikuli sounds lke a mythical character :)
16:02
<LuizAngioletti>
http://sikuli.org/
16:03
they used it to simulate user interaction through the graphical interface.
16:05
<andygraybeal>
LuizAngioletti, do you use it?
16:05
<LuizAngioletti>
not yet
16:05
this article I just read used it.
16:10
I wonder if anyone else has...
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16:33
<andygraybeal>
i bet there is a irc channel for it :P
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16:45
<LuizAngioletti>
andygraybeal: It's a pitty I didn't bet paypal money... there isn't.
16:45
<andygraybeal>
aah :)
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17:09
<LuizAngioletti>
andygraybeal: I'm gone. =)
17:09
'till next time.
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17:54* alkisg also goes on to disable localapps and localdev for clients with <= 128 RAM, otherwise they're not really usable...
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19:24
<srdjo_>
@alkisg - i tried executing cupsctl from that SCREEN_02 shell and it worked
19:24
printers got shared instantly
19:25
<alkisg>
srdjo_: ok, so putting it to an rcfile_01 line should work
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19:26
<alkisg>
srdjo_: it's possible the rcfile_xx has bug in your ubuntu/ltsp version
19:26
<srdjo_>
I am using Ubuntu 11.10
19:26
<alkisg>
Put the line that I told you some hours ago, and when the client boots, from SCREEN_02 type: cat /etc/rc.local
19:26
If the line ended up after the "exit 0" at the end of that file, it's not executed
19:36
<srdjo_>
last line is exit 0
19:36
<alkisg>
What do you have in lts.conf currently?
19:39
<srdjo_>
[default]
19:39
LDM_DIRECTX=True
19:39
LDM_SESSIONS="gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback"
19:39
X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
19:39
CUPS_SERVER=localhost
19:39
LOCALDEV=True
19:39
SOUND=True
19:39
RCFILE_01="/usr/sbin/cupsctl --share-printers"
19:39
thats all
19:40
I reinstalled everything just to make sure it is not something else
19:41
<alkisg>
grep run_rcfile -A6 /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common
19:41
What's the output of that? use pastebin
19:41
!pastebin
19:41
<ltsp>
alkisg: pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
19:42
<srdjo_>
where to run it ?
19:42
on client or server ?
19:42
<alkisg>
On your server
19:42
If on client, omit the /opt/ltsp/i386 part
19:42
Wherever's easiest for you
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19:48
<alkisg>
Btw, about your lts.conf, it's LDM_SESSION, not sessions, and you don't need localdev and sound as they're true by default
19:48
<srdjo2>
here is output pastebin.com/VTtWtMmh
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19:50
<alkisg>
That should work... it might be called too soon and maybe cups is not started yet
19:51
srdjo2: when you manually tried running cupsctl, did you do so before logging in?
19:52
<srdjo2>
no - I did it after logging in
19:52
<alkisg>
Try it again, before logging in, to see if it's still effective
19:52
<srdjo2>
I will try it now
19:54
it runs ok
19:54
logged as root on shell
19:55
<alkisg>
So, if you boot a client, run cupsctl, and THEN login, you have shared printers,
19:55
<srdjo2>
yes
19:55
<alkisg>
yet it doesn't work from RCFILE_xx? Maybe that's too soon then
19:55
<srdjo2>
I dont even have to login
19:56
as soon as I run the command
19:56
<alkisg>
Ah, you're checking from another client if you see the printer?
19:56
<srdjo2>
the printer appears on server
19:56
yes
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19:57
<srdjo2>
@alksig - I need to go home - will be back in 15 minutes - will you be able to continue then ?
19:57
<alkisg>
Not sure, maybe
19:57
<srdjo2>
ok - see you in 15 minutes
20:00
<alkisg>
stgraber: about ltsp-client-core.upstart,
20:00
1) why not name it ltsp-client.upstart? and
20:00
2) it appears that the "post-stop" event is called when the script finishes executing, i.e. right after starting the screen sessions and the sound, at RUNLEVEL 2 instead of 0-6.
20:00
(ah about 1, you'll need a dh_installupstart line in debian/rules, ok)
20:01
<stgraber>
alkisg: right and usually when only shipping a single job, having it match the package name is easier
20:01
alkisg: checking 2) now
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20:03
<stgraber>
alkisg: right, I need to move everything in pre-start, then it should work
20:04
<alkisg>
stgraber: I can try it quickly if you pastebin it for me
20:04
About boot times, we're not too bad, in lucid I got 13 seconds with fast fat clients and now I'm getting 20. Considering the additional services that start on boot and the larger initramfs etc it's ok.
20:05
Unfortunately 64 MB RAM clients can barely boot anymore, and localdev/localapps/cron/dbus need to be disabled for 128mb ram clients
20:05
So, minimum=128, recommented=256+ for thin, 768+ for fat
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20:06
<stgraber>
alkisg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/873533/
20:07
<alkisg>
The grep at post-stop shouldn't be needed, nbd-disconnect checks for nbdroot in the kernel cmdline
20:07
<stgraber>
but you could use nbdroot without LTSP and have ltsp-client-core installed no? (I know that'd be a bit weird ;))
20:08
<alkisg>
Yes, and in that case you'd want nbd-disconnect :)
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20:08
<stgraber>
well, my point is that we shouldn't call /usr/share/ltsp/* unless we're sure to be on LTSP :)
20:09
also calling the pre-start only on LTSP systems but the post-stop on all systems sounds a bit weird :)
20:09
<alkisg>
nbd-disconnect should go to /usr/share/nbd/ :D when we get a chance to talk to wouter about it
20:09
<stgraber>
right, that'd be the right place for it indeed
20:10
<alkisg>
The nbd-client initscript needs a lot of cleanup, and the disconnect thing too, but we didn't have time to do it for precise...
20:11
vagrantc: any objection if I disable localdev, localapps, dbus, cron and rsyslog for clients with <= 128 MB RAM?
20:11
(of course only the defaults, they could still be enabled from lts.conf)
20:12
<vagrantc>
alkisg: how much does localdev/localapps take?
20:12
<alkisg>
I don't have exact numbers, but I do have 5 mins boot time vs 1.5 min
20:12
<vagrantc>
eeyk.
20:12
with NBD swap?
20:12
<alkisg>
Yes
20:12
it's possible that in debian the threshold for lag/swap would be less though
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20:13
<vagrantc>
right, that's why i hesitate to push that so hard.
20:13
<alkisg>
On 12.04 I can't scroll a page in firefox if I have localdev/apps enabled
20:13
<vagrantc>
things are just getting bloated :(
20:13
<alkisg>
Maybe define a per-distro threshold? Or, call `free` at some point and decide based on the result?
20:14
stgraber: it hang again on shutdown
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20:14
<stgraber>
alkisg: do you have access to a shell at this point? if so, can you do "status ltsp-client-core"
20:15
<alkisg>
stgraber: no, complete hang, I can't even change vt
20:15
<stgraber>
fun ...
20:16
alkisg: I'm wondering if you indeed get RUNLEVEL in ./client/nbd-disconnect when called from upstart
20:16
<alkisg>
stgraber: previously I got RUNLEVEL=2
20:17
And in ltsp-reboot.conf etc I got the correct runlevel too
20:17
What puzzles me most is the complete hang, it's not the usual "nbd errors" problem...
20:19
<stgraber>
right and I had a quick look at upstart's documentation confirming that RUNLEVEL should be passed to the job, so that's not the problem
20:20
alkisg: can you try "stop on starting runlevel [06]"?
20:20
alkisg: stop on starting rc RUNLEVEL=[06]
20:20
actually
20:21
this will ensure it gets called first thing on shutdown
20:21
<alkisg>
The previous one is booting now, so let's test it...
20:21
<stgraber>
yeah, I doubt "stop on starting runlevel" would be valid as runlevel is just an event, not a job, so it can't be "starting"
20:22
<alkisg>
No go, testing the last one...
20:23
I think that from the point where you moved everything to pre-start and on, I'm getting the "normal" nbd error hang, not the complete kernel hang, which is a good sign :)
20:23
Nope, same deal for the last one too
20:24
I'll try to lower the 5 secs delay, in case upstart kills -9 the job
20:25
<stgraber>
well, we start nbd-disconnect in the background, so upstart will just continue the shutdown sequence without waiting for nbd-disconnect
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20:29
<alkisg>
I think that from the upstart side we're ok, the nbd-disconnect script is called, but then it's not working as expected for some other reason
20:34
I managed to do it, but I haven't bisected the line that causes the problem yet
20:38
Meh from previous tests I had some chvt + sleeps there, by using the upstream nbd-disconnect it worked fine
20:39
So stgraber your last "stop on" line was fine
20:40
<stgraber>
cool
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20:42
<alkisg>
vagrantc: do you have a debian ltsp chroot handy to give me the output of `ps aux; sync; echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches; free`, while at ldm?
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20:44
<vagrantc>
alkisg: not any recent versions.
20:44* alkisg needs to build one for better testing...
20:44
<alkisg>
vagrantc: any version with cow/init-ltsp.d would do though
20:45
<vagrantc>
alkisg: don't have one
20:45
<alkisg>
ok, ty
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21:03
<srdjo_>
@alkisg I will be online so if you find some spare time to try to fix my problem I would appreciate that - thanks in advance
21:13
<alkisg>
srdjo_: try editing /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc.local, and putting the cupsctl command right before exit 0
21:13
Then ltsp-update-image + reboot client
21:14
!quick-nbd-tests
21:14
<ltsp>
alkisg: quick-nbd-tests: to quickly test stuff without rebuilding your NBD image and without switching to NFS, put "break=mount" in pxelinux.cfg/default, and then from the initramfs prompt run chroot /root bash -l . Edit any files you want and press Ctrl+D two times to continue the boot process.
21:14
<alkisg>
Or you could try this way if you understand the quick how-to, it's faster ^
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21:36
<srdjo_>
I will buid the image since it gives me the error at initramfs about bash (no such file or directory)
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23:18
<naptastic>
How do you keep /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.conf from filling with definitions because every thin client adds theirs to it?
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