IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 November 2013   (all times are UTC)

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06:24
<alkisg>
Notes for pulseaudio user sessions:
06:24
server-side: pactl load-module module-native-protocol-tcp
06:25
client-side: PULSE_SERVER=tcp:server-ip
06:25
PULSE_COOKIE=/tmp/ltsp.xxx/.pulse-cookie, where that is scp'ed from the server's ~/.pulse-cookie
06:26
<muppis>
Need to be done during boot or login?
06:27
<alkisg>
Login
06:30
So in theory we can stop starting pulseaudio in system mode, and we can do it on login,
06:31
thus allowing multiple LDM/lightdm SCREENs, with seperate sound servers for each one, and vt switching would also switch sound
06:31
<muppis>
Sounds nice.
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14:41
<sbalneav>
Morning all
14:42
<mgariepy>
good morning Scotty
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14:58
<lifeboy>
I'm sure I had this noted somewhere, but can't find it: Which config file(s) determine what goes into /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default for LTSP on Ubuntu 12.04
14:58
?
15:00
I want "append ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdport=2002" in there, since I'm booting 10.04 clients, but instead I get "append ro initrd=initrd.img root=/dev/nbd0 init=/sbin/init-ltsp quiet splash plymouth:force-splash vt.handoff=7 nbdroot=:ltsp_i386"
15:07
<alkisg>
Good morning sbalneav, is the proposal about an LTSP day still on?
15:07
I have example code to remove xatomwait, and to start pulseaudio as part of the user session, instead of in system mode...
15:08
<lifeboy>
ltsp-update-image reads /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf and there's -o to set the BOOTPROMPT_OPTIONS on the command line, but I recall the default can be set in some config file, but I'm not seeing it in the script... I'm probably not sharp enough wrt the scripting.
15:10
<alkisg>
lifeboy: it was in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf, you had to create it if I remember correctly, then run update-kernels inside the chroot, then ltsp-update-kernels outside of it...
15:10
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Sure, all we need to do is pick a day!
15:11
<lifeboy>
Ah, the update-kernels inside the chroot is what I'm missing! Thanks, alkisg. Let's see if that works now.
15:12
<alkisg>
sbalneav: which one's good for you? I still think that getting LDM to work with libpam_sshauth would be a great start for ltsp6, then we could do it progressively upstream instead of in a separate branch...
15:14
<sbalneav>
alkisg: It would mean a complete rewrite to ldm.
15:14
<alkisg>
sbalneav: even with local login screen scraping?
15:15
<sbalneav>
Yes.
15:15
<alkisg>
Hmmm
15:15
<sbalneav>
pam is fundamentally different from what we're doing.
15:15
<alkisg>
Then I fear that we should postpone the libpam_sshauth integration
15:15
Until the code base is more ready for it
15:15
<lifeboy>
Running /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels in the chroot does the trick!
15:16
<sbalneav>
With pam, you essentially provide a set of callbacks that the pam library can call. One to handle asking for input, one to handle what to do when you get a login request, etc.
15:16
Then you kick off the login, and the pam library grinds through things.
15:16
<alkisg>
And LDM couldn't fit the "asking for input" part?
15:16
<sbalneav>
Well sure
15:17
if you rewrite major portions of it.
15:17
<alkisg>
What about postponing libpam_sshauth for a few months, until we prepare the rest of the code for it?
15:17
<sbalneav>
I can make a volkswagen beetle fly, if I do enough parts fabrication and welding :D
15:18
<ogra_>
you could just fill it with helium though
15:18
saves the welding
15:18
<sbalneav>
I could fill it with hydrogen AND do some welding!
15:18
<ogra_>
heh
15:18
<sbalneav>
KABOOOOOM
15:19
<alkisg>
sbalneav: ah, since you're here, I'm planning on removing xatomwait with xprop -spy, are there any reasons not to? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1248438
15:19
*replacing
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15:20
<sbalneav>
alkisg: I'm willing to do whatever you people want to do. But personally, I don't see the point in spending all the time to re-write LDM when the ultimate goal is to make it go away.
15:20
<alkisg>
sbalneav: I agree, if it needs much rewriting, it's not worth it
15:21
I'm just afraid that if libpam_sshauth lands, it'll take many months until the result is production ready...
15:21
<ogra_>
sbalneav, so the issue is that we use all these scripts that we process after login, right ? why cant we have a pam plugin that handles this ?
15:21
<alkisg>
So I was thinking that a progressive approach would be better, given the limited manpower
15:21
<sbalneav>
We already do, we're using pam_exec
15:22
<ogra_>
hmm, then i understood wrongly why lightdm doesnt work
15:22
<sbalneav>
Oh, it works
15:22
<ogra_>
but ?
15:22
<sbalneav>
the problem is, there's some stuff we've added, like selecting what machine to log into, which doesn't have an analogue in lightdm.
15:23
<ogra_>
oh, right
15:23
well, so you would like your own greeter with such a function
15:25
<alkisg>
We could create a bunch of /usr/share/xsessions/*.desktop files, so that it works with any greeter, all of them have session selection
15:25
E.g. "LXDE on server", "gnome-fallback locally"...
15:27
But replacing all of the LDM* variables will need a lot of work... LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PRINTER_LIST, LDM_GUESTLOGIN, ...
15:27
And I think AccountsService will give us some headache...
15:27
<sbalneav>
That's why I'm thinking it's just better to make the plunge, start with a clean tree, and start pulling stuff over. If it takes us 6 months or a year, so be it.
15:28
<ogra_>
++
15:28
do it rather cleanly
15:29
<sbalneav>
That's my suggestion: start with a perfectly clean branch: no commits. Pull in stuff piece by piece from the old LTSP5, and modify as necessary. It's slightly painful, sure, but at least we can start with a clean slate.
15:29
To me, that makes the most sense.
15:29
<ogra_>
yeah
15:30
<alkisg>
I think the manpower is too limited for that
15:30
And the needed changes too big
15:30
While if we applied each change in trunk, and have it in production quickly, I think it would be better... some parts would go to 14.04, some to jessie...
15:31
And e.g. next year, when the code base is more ready for it, libpam_sshauth could land...
15:31
3 devs are working on ltsp now, right?
15:32
And each one can only put a couple of days per month...
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15:35
<sbalneav>
But what is it we're changing? We can't re-work any of the LDM_ dependencies until we get rid of LDM.
15:35
<alkisg>
sbalneav: drop cdpinger, replace xatomwait, always create local user account, start pulse in user mode, ...
15:36
There are months of work to do before even touching ldm
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15:37
<sbalneav>
Password expiration is currently not working in LDM, if I recall correctly, yes?
15:37
<alkisg>
I don't know, never used it
15:37
I wrote a few of the TODOs in http://sync.in/ltsp
15:37
But there are many more that I didn't write there...
15:42
<bennabiy>
alkisg: I am still having home folder issues on my fat client. It goes for a time working fine, and then it decides that home transport not available
15:44
<alkisg>
bennabiy: they work fine here...
15:45
The biggest change that can land without removing LDM, would be the user-owned ssh socket, it would change localapps, remoteapps (client <=> server communication over ssh, not over X props), pulse, udev, ...
15:46
<bennabiy>
alkisg: I can tell you all are busy, I guess I will just work from the server until I can get this worked out. If possible, can you tell me when a time you might have to help me troubleshoot it, I would appreciate it
15:46
<sbalneav>
Speaking only for myself, here's what I need working for LTSP: pure thin client, password expiry, USB memory sticks. That's pretty much it. I've been working on a new version of LTSPFS called sffs (simple fuse filesystem) which does all of it's communications over stdin and stdout, with the idea that we can tunnel it over the ssh socket.
15:46
<bennabiy>
sbalneav: that sounds good
15:47
<alkisg>
sbalneav: we need a lot more than that here, we're using fat clients as the default, so if we e.g. got ltsp6 in that ^ state in a few months, it would be worthless to us, and I'd still have to work on ltsp 5...
15:48
bennabiy: are you using 13.04 or 13.10?
15:48
I'll start troubleshooting Trusty in a couple of weeks, maybe some of the fixes from there will apply to you
15:48* alkisg is only using LTS editions...
15:48
<sbalneav>
I've got one thing to debug on libpam_sshauth: why the seat manager doesn't consider a libpam_sshauth login to be "properly logged in" which prevents things like udisks from working.
15:53
<alkisg>
I solved that part for fat clients with consolekit environment variables...
15:54
Dunno how to do it with logind
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16:42
<bennabiy>
alkisg: 13:04
16:42
I will be migrating to the mint 17 LTS when it hits
16:43
probably will stay with 15 until then
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18:54
<tfdl>
Hello all, i installed unclutter package to hide my mouse cursor when client screen is idle for 5 seconds - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/i386/unclutter - but because unclutter needs to start with this command - "unclutter -idle 5 -root" - I am now not sure how to auto start the command at start up in ltsp client/image. I have tried this RCFILE_02=/etc/init.d/unclutter.sh in my lts.conf but it does not work. A manual start by command
18:55
A manual start by command /etc/init.d/unclutter.sh via local xterm proves that the package is working.
18:56
Thanks all, for any instruction you may provide.
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19:28
<alkisg>
tfdl: it needs X access, create a $CHROOT/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X* script that launches it
19:28
RCFILE_xx doesn't have access to X, it runs too early
19:29
<tfdl>
thanks <alkisg>!
19:30
i am trying that now.
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20:12
<tfdl>
alkisq: i created X97-unclutter in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d but it does not work is there anything else i need to add?
20:12
the script is: #!/bin/bash # # https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ChrootCronjobs # unclutter -idle 5 -root
20:13
i think i should not have #!/bin/bash in it. trying again.
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20:22
<tfdl>
hi alkisq: i still have no luck, can you point me again?
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20:42
<tfdl>
alkisg: i manually execute /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/X97-clutter vi local xterm - it works fine. Just not sure how to automate it in client. thanks!
20:57
alkisg: so on the client desktop i went to System->Preferences->Startup Application and from here i set choose and add clutter as a start up application with options such as "clutter -idle 5 -root" and it works fine!
20:59
restarting the other client to see they will also pick up the setting since i am doing it this way.
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22:18
<alkisg>
dd if=/dev/nbd0 of=/dev/null => 55 MB/sec, dd if=/nfs-mount/i386.img of=/dev/null => 51 MB/sec
22:18
...not a big difference between NBD and NFS speeds...
22:19
I.e. exporting the squashfs image over NFS would be fast too
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