IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 June 2010   (all times are UTC)

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00:47
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc. Could we move /usr/share/ltsp/scripts/ltsp-chroot to /usr/sbin/ltsp-chroot, and maybe put some extra switches for mounting the package cache or proc etc?
00:49
<johnny>
needs to be distro agnostic tho..
00:49
would need to refactor it so it could be
00:49
<alkisg>
Not if we only do it for debian/ubuntu
00:49
<johnny>
with it's own plugins per distro
00:50
<alkisg>
(it's already distro specific, it uses dpkg...)
00:51
<johnny>
then you should probably move it in ubuntu/debian packages
00:51
that way you don't confuse people
00:51
<alkisg>
Yup
00:52
And if other distros add the necessary code, it could be moved out again
00:54
(I think it is currently only in the ubuntu/debian package...)
00:57
<johnny>
hah :)
00:57
<alkisg>
vagrantc, and a second thing, would it be possible to have an ltsp_setup.d directory (similar to ltsp_config.d) in which scripts could be dropped, which would be called by a run_parts call in ltsp_setup?
00:57
<johnny>
well, it's also in gentoo.. since i copy the entire dir
00:58
<alkisg>
Along with the debian dir? Well it shows that it's for debian in any case...
00:59
<johnny>
alkisg, sure
01:00
imagining that i might test those roots at some point
01:00
i guess i could exclude them..
01:01
<alkisg>
Currently, the dpkg call could be replaced with a "get_default_root()" call which would go in the distro-functions script, and so ltsp-chroot would be distro agnostic,
01:01
...but if package cache dir bind-mounting is also implemented, then I don't know how that can be done for other distros...
01:02
(or if an ltsp-chroot update parameter is implemented)
01:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ltsp-chroot is in /usr/sbin/ltsp-chroot on debian...
01:10
<alkisg>
Ah, I'll tell stgraber then. Could we add some extra stuff?
01:11
<vagrantc>
guess it's in both places on debian...
01:11
alkisg: can add extra stuff.
01:12
alkisg: i put off including it for years because i wanted to add all the extra stuff, and then just finally wrote the basic implementation to have something
01:12
lessdisks-chroot actually included all sorts of crazy functionality
01:12
<alkisg>
I can give it a try today and ping you later on (tomorrow for you) with the results...
01:13
<vagrantc>
alkisg: though regarding proc mounting, you shouldn't mess with it if it's already mounted and such...
01:14
alkisg: and the package cache mounting should be optional...
01:14
<alkisg>
Right
01:15
...and devs-pts mounting could be optional, and maybe even DISPLAY and DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS could be optional...
01:15
<vagrantc>
whoah
01:15
<alkisg>
Heh :D
01:15
<vagrantc>
ltsp-chroot-fat-client
01:15
<alkisg>
OK ok I'l shush now :P
01:16
What about ltsp_setup.d ?
01:16
<vagrantc>
in general, i like *.d
01:17
it takes a little bit of a performance hit to check for the directory and parse the contents... but it seems like we've gotten a lot of that code much faster nowadays anyways.
01:18
<alkisg>
...and I think the flexibility is well worth the small performance hit
01:18
<vagrantc>
johnny: leaving ltsp-chroot in debian or ubuntu packages makes it harder to coordinate common code between ubuntu and debian and more likely that other distros that could use it will re-invent the wheel
01:19
alkisg: yeah, i think we've done good things elsewhere.
01:19
alkisg: no reason to stop here.
01:20
johnny: so even for distro-specific code, i think it still belongs upstream
01:21
i would welcome someone to refactor it to be more distro agnostic, but it's not the highest priority on my TODO list
01:21
<alkisg>
OK, I'll propose something for ltsp_setup.d as well. I think it'd be better if we moved all of the configure_resolver, configure_console etc calls into that directory, but anyway I'll leave those big changes for more experienced devs :)
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01:30
<johnny>
hmm.. i wondering if networkmanager can be used for more of that stuff
01:31
altho.. i guess that would require more collaboration with upstream
01:31
vagrantc, i was just talking to portlanders on the phone :)
01:31
vagrantc, i hope to be there for oscon/xmpp summit
01:34
<vagrantc>
johnny: when's that?
01:34
<johnny>
july 21st
01:35
<vagrantc>
johnny: heh. we'll be swapping coasts
01:37
<johnny>
where are going ? buffalo?
01:38
<vagrantc>
debconf10 is in new york city
01:38
<johnny>
ah
01:38
right after hope :)
01:39
when are you going?
01:39
and for how long will you be gone?
01:39
<vagrantc>
think i leave july 18th
01:39
<johnny>
ah.. too bad
01:40
and the conference starts?
01:41
<vagrantc>
http://debconf10.debconf.org/dates.xhtml
01:41
july 25th, but i'll be a little later than that
01:42
<johnny>
so.. you're not gonna get there til when?
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01:42
<vagrantc>
johnny: i'll be there july 27th-august 8th
01:43* vagrantc wonders when gadi and stgraber will be around
01:43
<vagrantc>
they said they'd be going
01:43
<johnny>
the hope conference starts on the 18th
01:43
i plan on being in NYC then
01:43* vagrantc is confused
01:44
<johnny>
i plan on being in new york city on july 18th
01:44
<vagrantc>
got it
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01:44
<johnny>
till the 20th
01:44
<vagrantc>
johnny: and then hitting oscon?
01:44
<johnny>
yes
01:44* vagrantc suspects johnny will not be taking the train
01:45
<johnny>
seems unlikely..
01:45* vagrantc will be spending close to a week on the train over the course of a month
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02:32
<sentmen>
Hi
02:33
Hello?
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05:09
<sentmen>
hi
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08:32
<rad4Christ>
Morning guys, and thanks again for your assistance the other day with some configuration. I've tested edubuntu and I'm playing with openSUSE in a littl bit, for anyone who's done it, what's your recommendation for a school lab?
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08:39
<nubae>
rad4Christ, in what respect?
08:39
for me opensuse has by far the most usable and working edu apps
08:39
a great general gui maintanance system
08:39
<rad4Christ>
Well, I'm looking to replace 4 labs, with 25-30 PCs in each. We're putting together the list for HW needs, and it's going ot be ltsp driven clients.
08:40
I was just interested if people's opinions on the options.
08:40
<nubae>
easy ways of upgrading
08:40
<rad4Christ>
I'm still downloading the openSUSE iso now.
08:41
<nubae>
mad a wpnderful ltsp gui system, which although somewhat different and radical in its apprAoach... a great system
08:41
with wonerful documerntation
08:41
and a team that is highly involved in its outcome
08:42
join #opensuse-edu for more info
08:42
or I guess #kiwi-ltsp
08:44
I am womwhat biawsed being involved in opensuse development (specifically sugar), but it would be hard to beat such an easy to use system
08:45
<rad4Christ>
Thank nubae, I am DEFINITELY checking it out, then.
08:45
Only 2.5 hours to download :/
08:45
<ogra>
note though that not many people in here can give support for it
08:46
but nubae already pointed you to other channels
08:46
<nubae>
so a search opensuse-edu
08:46
<ogra>
and kiwi adds a bit of overhead so clients require more ram and boot slower
08:46
<nubae>
right... this is the wrong channel... it is not really offiocially... ltsp
08:47
I would rgue that is somewhat not really a point
08:48
its like saying a pentium chip without mmx is worse than one with one
08:48
<rad4Christ>
I'm in those channels now, as I test it, I'll ask any questions there.
08:48
<nubae>
the overhead is mostly unoticable to the average users
08:48
<ogra>
nubae, ??
08:49
<rad4Christ>
The big thing for me it just trying to find the bet solution for the school.
08:49
<nubae>
ogra u know what I mean
08:49
<ogra>
nope
08:50
<nubae>
with todays hardware... be it kiwi-ltsp or normal ltsp is not really a concern
08:50
I hope u would agree
08:50
<ogra>
2 minute boots vs 10secs are quite a difference
08:50
imho
08:50
but if you dont think so, up to you :)
08:50
<nubae>
kwiwi-ltsp does NOT take 2 mins to boot
08:50* ogra points to recent ltsp ML posts
08:50
<nubae>
who told u that?
08:51
<ogra>
several people on the LTSP list
08:51
while i didnt touch ltsp for almost a year i still read the ML :)
08:51
<nubae>
well, thats like those people that argue CENTOS ltsp is far superior to ubuntu ltsp
08:51
u know th types
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08:52
<nubae>
damned cockaraoches...
08:52
<ogra>
indeed
08:52
<nubae>
;-)
08:52
<ogra>
well, ARM is the future for LTAP anyway :)
08:52
*LTSP
08:53
<nubae>
people are STILL arguiing that ubuntu ltsp is slower and a worse solution than centos
08:53
<ogra>
huh ?
08:53
<nubae>
yeo, read the fedora ltsp mailing list
08:53
<ogra>
centos doesnt have LTSP any support, does it ?
08:53
*any LTSP support
08:53
<nubae>
unforunately, it does
08:53
:-(
08:53
<ogra>
huh ?
08:53
<nubae>
the 5 year policy
08:54
<ogra>
not in upstream
08:54
<nubae>
no upstream, no way
08:54
<ogra>
?? whats the 5 year policy ?
08:54
<nubae>
but people convnce users that i f they use centos, they ccan still benefit fromthe security updates
08:55
vrntos is like RHLTS, 5 yer support, and supposedly the security suport that comes along with it
08:56
<ogra>
how can they ? there is no upstream support at all
08:56
i wonder how they make sure kernel and X have no wide open security bugs then
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09:02
<nubae>
damn Spanish weather is shorting out all electrical outlets
09:03
godda love that global warming
09:04
anyway though i am biased, i am saying kiwi-ltsp is not so bad...
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11:02
<alkisg>
stgraber: could we put ltsp-chroot in /usr/sbin/ like Debian does? I'm rewritting it to also allow /proc and package cache mounting etc (with getopts)...
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12:28
<vbundi>
has anyone here used Sabayon much? I am having trouble with permissions on a launcher I have created for a user's desktop
12:44
<johnny>
i haven't used it in awhile.. and so many changes have happened since then
12:44
did you try setting it to 666? just to see if it works then?
12:44
even if you don't plan on keeping it thatway?
12:47
<alkisg>
johnny: ltsp-chroot: http://alkisg.pastebin.com/PUNUjm6q
12:47
comments welcome...
12:50
I think dpkg and the apt cache are debian specific, the rest should be distro agnostic...
12:51
<vbundi>
johnny: I just want it to be executable, permissions are correct inside the sabayon 'bubble' but not in a real session
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14:15
<Mip5>
Howdy folks - I hope you are all well. I'm installing ltsp on 10.04 (been running 9.04 for a year and half), and am looking for good documentation on configuration fat clients. I see entries for localapps jaunty and karmic, but not lucid. Anyone know where this documentation can be found?
14:21
<johnny>
just follow the karmic one i think
14:21
oh.. wait.. there were some additions since then
14:21
too bad that person isn't here to remind me where the link to the updated howto is
14:27
<vbundi>
Mip5: depending on what you are doing, it should only be simpler in Lucid for localapps
14:27
Mip5: I think if you follow the karmic instructions it should still work, but there are somet lts.conf settings in there that are default or unnecessary now iirc
14:28
<Mip5>
vbundi - thanks, I'll give them a shot
14:29
johnny - thanks the install has yet to complete, but that's what I'll do.
14:30
<johnny>
Mip5, the main thing is that it's not fat-client not fatclient
14:30
and there is a new parameter --fat-client-desktop
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14:31
<johnny>
that's if you want to run a fat client that is't the same as the host distro .. gnome for ubuntu, kde for ubuntu, etc
14:31
err kde for kubuntu*
14:31
Mip5, that's the only thing you have to watch out for.. is remove the old fat client script
14:32
<vagrantc>
stgraber: have you had good luck with lxc/linux containers ?
14:32
<johnny>
if you had it from an upgrade
14:32
Mip5, if it's a fresh install.. it's fine
14:32
<vagrantc>
stgraber: saw a post on stgraber.org a while back in november... wondering how it's going
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14:39
<alkisg>
vagrantc: new ltsp-chroot: http://alkisg.pastebin.com/PUNUjm6q
14:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: does that require using -- ?
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14:41
<alkisg>
vagrantc: nope
14:41
The + at the start of the getopt options takes care of that
14:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: how does it know if an argument is passed to the chrooted command vs. ltsp-chroot itself?
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14:42
<alkisg>
vagrantc: The first non-parameter marks the end of the parameters
14:42
E.g. ltsp-chroot --mount-package-cache ls -lha "/some/path with spaces"
14:42
==> `ls` is the first non-parameter
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14:43
<alkisg>
getopt does this automatically if + is specified as an option...
14:43
<vagrantc>
nice :)
14:43
<alkisg>
(or if POSIXLY_CORRECT is specified)
14:43
<denisesball>
hey alkisg, trying your gpxe idea from friday to boot a remote machine to the non-dhcp side of the termserver by entering the pxeboot info manually. i get the pxebvoot going fine, and it starts loading, but its hanging on
14:44
<alkisg>
vagrantc: It seems to work fine for me, even though I had to use an eval at the chroot line
14:44
denisesball: you need a full ip kernel parameter to make sure that the client gets a static ip.
14:45* alkisg needs to write a wiki page about booting without dhcp with gpxe...
14:45
<denisesball>
where do i do that with gpxe? i boot the cd, hit ctrl+b and enter everything menually, ctrl-x to save and then type autoboot
14:45
<alkisg>
No no you make a custom image
14:45
OK, try the ctrl+b thing first:
14:45
Do you have some local dhcp server?
14:46
<denisesball>
yep
14:46
<alkisg>
OK, try those:
14:46
<denisesball>
i tried entering that in the config
14:46
<alkisg>
dhcp net0
14:46
set next-server <ip-of-remote-server>
14:46
<denisesball>
k
14:47
<alkisg>
kernel /ltsp/i386/vmlinuz ip=<full ip line with gateway, dns server, hostname etc> initrd=initrd.img ro
14:47
boot vmlinuz
14:47
<denisesball>
its not /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0?
14:47
<alkisg>
For the ip line, see this: http://codtech.com/wiki/index.php/Ipconfig#interface_spec_long_form
14:47
No you can't use pxelinux.0
14:48
You need a static ip on your local subnet
14:48
<denisesball>
oh, maybe thats what my prob was then
14:48
<alkisg>
You might be able to use pxelinux.0 if you also put `ipappend 3`, but maybe the different subnet will cause problems
14:48
<denisesball>
<server-ip>
14:48
<alkisg>
So better load the kernel directly
14:48
<denisesball>
should that be the termserver ip?
14:48
<alkisg>
Yes
14:50
<denisesball>
after the kernel line, looks like its booting without having to type boot vmlinuz
14:50
<alkisg>
Hmmm I'm not sure but I think it just loads the kernel, it doesn't actually boot it
14:50
<denisesball>
oh ok, i will wait
14:50* alkisg will be back in an hour or so... ciao
14:50
<denisesball>
just doing the ......
14:50
ok thanks
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15:30
<alkisg>
vagrantc: does it look ok? Should I commit it?
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16:04
<denisesball>
alkisg: i get a kernel panic trying your boot options
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16:05
<alkisg>
denisesball: what exactly did you try?
16:07
<denisesball>
exactly what you mentioned. after the vmlinux kernel loaded, did boot vmlinuz
16:07
<alkisg>
I think you also need to specify the initrd
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18:55
<Lns>
Hey all
18:55
Anyone using a 2-NIC LTSP setup inside a VM? I'm having issues reaching eth1 for the VM outside the VM itself..
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19:09
<LedHed>
is there an option to enable SSH to a ThinClient? I would like to be able to get a remote shell on a client and reboot it.
19:10
<Lns>
LedHed, just install openssh-server in the chroot
19:10
<LedHed>
oh. duhh.
19:11
<Lns>
;)
19:11
<LedHed>
I should have thought of that
19:11
<Lns>
easy to overlook sometimes
19:12
<LedHed>
I'm also having issues with firefox. It seems that I cant have it running on more than one terminal at a time.
19:12
do I have to install Firefox as a localapp?
19:14
<Lns>
LedHed, why can you only run it on one terminal at a time?
19:14
is it slow?
19:18
<LedHed>
Lns, when I launch Firefox it says that its already running.
19:18
<Lns>
LedHed, are you logging onto more than 1 terminal with the same user account?
19:18
<LedHed>
yes
19:18
<Lns>
don't ;)
19:18
<LedHed>
ouch
19:18
<Lns>
firefox doesn't like that (as do many other apps)
19:18
<LedHed>
that throws a monkey wrench into my plans
19:19
<Lns>
why?
19:19
<LedHed>
I have 1 profile for many users.
19:19
I have 12 Clients with all the same desktop and apps on the desktop
19:19
<Lns>
LedHed, ever hear of sabayon?
19:19
what dist. are you using btw?
19:19
<LedHed>
Ubuntu
19:20
I saw something about sabayon, used for profile management correct?
19:20
<Lns>
check out sabayon - sbalneav did a lot of work to get that software going, it's fabulous for what you want to do
19:20
yea
19:20
it's one of his babies. it's great software
19:20
<LedHed>
works well with Ubuntu/LTSP?
19:20
<Lns>
it was designed for it ;)
19:20
<LedHed>
great.
19:20
I'll look into it.
19:21
for now, I'll have to remove my Firefox shortcut.
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19:48
<LedHed>
Lns, if I rebuild the client image, will it effect running clients?
19:49
<Lns>
you'd probably want to reboot them asap..
19:49
might not crash them outright, but...
19:49
<LedHed>
thats gonna be a pain.
19:49
I have 12 Clients scattered across 1 sq mile
19:50
Lns, you ever built a Fat Client?
19:51
<Lns>
sure
19:51
<LedHed>
my client hardware isnt all that bad, Atom 1.66 w/ 1GB RAM
19:51
<Lns>
i got one of those
19:51
<LedHed>
nice little boxes.
19:52
so with a Fat Client, the client pulls the filesystem from the server and runs it in a RAM Disk?
19:55
Lns, will an Update Image require a reboot?
19:56
<Lns>
LedHed, yes, and yes
19:56
LedHed, it pulls from the server what it needs atm
19:56
not the whole thing
19:56
<LedHed>
ugh. I'm gonna be running a marathon in a few minutes. :)
19:57
Lns, A fat client pulls what it needs or a thin client does?
19:57
<Lns>
both really
19:57
<LedHed>
oh.
19:57
<Lns>
fat client just runs the apps locally
19:57
neither downloads the entire chroot
19:57
that would be slooooow booting
19:58
<LedHed>
MiniMtyh does that.
19:58
its about a 100m image
19:58
boot times are ok
19:59
<Lns>
minimyth...hmmmmmmmm
19:59
haven't heard of that yet!
19:59
anyway i gotta jet... maybe someone else here can help ya
19:59
good luck!!
19:59
<LedHed>
its a MtyhTV distribution
19:59
thanks for the help Lns
19:59
its appreciated
19:59
<Lns>
no prob, hang out here, the normies usually hang out
19:59
<LedHed>
cool
20:00
<Lns>
(obligitory family guy quote...normies) heh
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20:15
<johnny>
sure.. 100mb can be cached in ram with the appropriately sized distro, many cds do that
20:16
like systemrescuecd
20:21
<LedHed>
thats not something LTSP can is though correct?
20:42
the gtk-window-deco process is eating up my CPU. from what I read its related to compiz. I have visual effects set to 'None', is there anything else I can do to disable gtk-window-deco?
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20:58
<LedHed>
is it possible to use a different windows manager than Gnome?
20:59
<vagrantc>
of course
21:00
<LedHed>
cool.
21:00
I only need a very basic desktop
21:00
fluxbox or icewind would be fine,
21:00
or Gnome without Compiz would even be ok.
21:01* vagrantc recommends lxde
21:01
<LedHed>
never heard of it.
21:01
<vagrantc>
it's pretty full-featured and really lightweight
21:01
<LedHed>
easy to lock down?
21:01
<vagrantc>
not sure
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21:25
<nexusbr>
hello, anyone there?
21:26
is there a way to improve video streaming performance on clients?
21:29
i've been doing some searching on web, and realized that to improve it i need to run web browser and flash locally
21:30
thats ok, but, i have not found yet a single "how to" on running apps locally
21:31
the official docs in pdf, have no description on "Local Applications".. only describes some variables, which i'm still confused
21:33
guess everyone is sleeping.. =(
21:44
<johnny>
hmm?
21:44
you are using LDM_DIRECTX=Y in lts.conf ?
21:44
nexusbr, *
21:45
what specs are your client machines?
21:48
<nexusbr>
no,
21:49
clients are (is, in this case), athlon sempron 2400+ with 256mb ram
21:49
<johnny>
it's recommendd to use that for speed, but it is less secure
21:49
you won't be able to run flash and firefox locally with that much ram
21:49
<nexusbr>
i'll try it
21:49
<johnny>
it will run out too quickly
21:49
you should probably make sure you have at leaast 512
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21:50
<nexusbr>
i'm gonna try LM_DIRECTX=Y
21:51
<johnny>
LDM_DIRECTX=Y
21:51
<nexusbr>
ok
21:52
do i have to "update image"?
21:54
<johnny>
not if you are editing /var/lib/tftboot/i386/lts.conf
21:55
<nexusbr>
i'm editing /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
21:56
wow, video performance is acceptable now
21:57
<johnny>
nexusbr, it's not on by default.. because it is less secure, in that anybody who is sniffing your network can see all the data passing through
21:58
<nexusbr>
well.. i guess this is not a problem
21:59
its for a internet café
22:00
and i'm planning to use it with a win2008 rdp serving APPs, so user will be able to use micro$soft office, and live messenger..
22:00
<johnny>
live messenger? why? do they actually need it?
22:00
pidgin is not good enough for it?
22:01
<nexusbr>
lol, unfortunately they need it
22:02
full-screen youtube is no goal
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22:05
<nexusbr>
perhaps its just a server gap
22:08
2 tabs also gets the slow down
22:10
<johnny>
also
22:10
!compiz
22:10
<ltspbot>
johnny: "compiz" :: if compiz is giving you problems, one way to disable it for all users is: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
22:10
<johnny>
depending on your distro
22:10
err desktop environment
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22:34
<nexusbr>
thanks for the help johnny
22:35
i'm logging off now
22:35
thanks again
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23:20
<alkisg>
Good morning
23:20
vagrantc: any thoughts about ltsp-chroot?