IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 23 January 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:42
<tuukka>
good morning (might be evening for some :) )! i usually end up finding things i need through google or similar, but now i just seem to hit a brick wall: does someone have a good link (or tip) how to set thin clients power settings??
00:42
oops, i'm using gutsy...
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00:55
<sutula>
tuukka: I take it the normal gnome (or whatever) controls aren't working the way you expect?
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01:28
<tuukka>
sutula: thanks for the response, but as you said they don't seem to work at all ... i was wondering if i could find i file or something that would have the "power saving" values
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01:30
<johnny>
usually you use gnome-power-manager
01:34
<tuukka>
do i understand right, that if i use System - Settings - Power Saving (terms might be wrong -> i'm using finnish version) it should affect both the server and the thin-clients??
01:37
<sutula>
tuukka: I have more info...just a few minutes
01:37
<tuukka>
sutula: okay, thanks! i'm in no rush :)
01:43
<sutula>
tuukka: Sorry...was on a couple of back-to-back calls...I don't know what your application was, but I had a thin client that kept wanting to power-down, and I wanted the display to stay up.
01:44
tuukka: I couldn't get gnome-power-manager to do what I wanted...eventually, I removed it from starting at login.
01:44
tuukka: Still, the terminal powered-down after 20 mins or so...eventually, I found that the X server (running on the client) has default
01:45
timeouts...you can control them with xset
01:45
<tuukka>
sutula: this sounds really promising!
01:45
<sutula>
tuukka: See xset --dpms and -s
01:46
tuukka: So after removing gnome-power-manager from the startup session programs, I use xset in a couple of cron jobs to set the power settings I really want...one for daytime and one for night
01:46
I'm much happier now :)
01:47
<tuukka>
sutula: okay, this sounds like a solution that could also work for me! Huge Thanks! I'll see into this more deeply...
01:47
<johnny>
if gnome-power-manager doesn't work, that sucks
01:47
:(
01:48
<sutula>
(This particular thin client is a display on my wall, and it's usually doubling as a digital picture frame during the day, when someone isn't using it as a computer)
01:48
I have it power-down the display at night
01:48
<johnny>
that's pretty cool
01:48
<sutula>
johnny: It's a nice use of an e-bay 18" Elo touchscreen!
01:49
We keep calendars and other organizational stuff on it, so you can just walk up and touch it a few times to find what you need
01:51
tuukka: If you put xset in a script, you can run the script during login (the same way gnome-power-manager was getting run)
01:54
<tuukka>
sutula: i'll try this! Thanks!
01:56
<sutula>
np
01:57* sutula heads to bed...almost 1 AM here
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06:12
<solv_>
does anyone know if the bug #160420 has been fixed yet...concerning local drive access not working?
06:12
or do i need to go in and manually fix the files?
06:12
<ogra1>
you need t fix the files
06:12
*to
06:12
<solv_>
how long until this can be updated in the ubuntu repos?
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06:13
<solv_>
it's a fairly common problem...
06:14
not helping me convince the dean of my college that ltsp is a great way to go....when students can't use pen drives or cdroms!
06:15
so can you please clarify...are these the correct instructions at this link? http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.terminal-server.general/22270
06:17
<ogra1>
yes
06:17
<solv_>
thankyou
06:17
<ogra1>
> There is a line in /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter on the server:
06:17
>
06:17
> env['DISPLAY'] = 'localhost:10.0'
06:17
thats the essential part
06:17
delayed-mounter only cares for floppies ....
06:17
<solv_>
ah okay....interestingly...everytime i did rebuilt the image it seemed to fix the problem...and then a day later it was back again
06:18
okay...thanx..floppies are almost never used
06:18
<ogra1>
well, its likely the fact that you were lucky and had DISPLAY as localhost:10.0
06:18
<solv_>
i see
06:19
ogra1, well i guess the best place for me to ask for this to be fixed soon is in launchpad?
06:19
<ogra1>
the fix is in review ... there is a slightly slow paperwork intensive process involved to update the package in a release
06:19
<solv_>
ogra1,
06:19
woops
06:19
okay...i will leave it
06:20
<ogra1>
... to make sure we dot brea more than we fix :)
06:20
<solv_>
as long as something is in motion i'm happy with that
06:20
<ogra1>
*break
06:20
<solv_>
true
06:20
dat
06:20
<ogra1>
:)
06:20
<solv_>
so have suse got their act together yet
06:20
<ogra1>
its fixed in hardy though
06:20
<solv_>
incorporating ltsp5?
06:21
<ogra1>
suse has something own ... based on their liveCD building tool kiwi
06:21
<solv_>
yeah i don't really understand kiwi
06:21
<ogra1>
its rather hybrid between ltsp 4.x and ltsp5
06:21
<solv_>
but i like opensuse a little more the ubuntu...and would love to try it out as a ltsp server
06:22
<ogra1>
i would love to see them integrating their stuff into ltsp5 upstream
06:22
but that requires manpower from their side thats not there atm
06:22
s all we can do in ltsp land is wait atm
06:22
<solv_>
i was running a fedora 5 with ltsp 4.2, and that was awesome...didn't crash once...but with the 6 month release cycle for fedora...reinstalling your software on a student server every 6 months is NOT an option
06:23
ogra1, yeah i understand...i hope they get there
06:23* ogra1 needs to lunch now ... bbl
06:23
<solv_>
cool...thx
06:23
<ogra1>
:)
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06:56
<tarzeau>
how can i have a different xorg.conf than the one i get?
06:57
<ogra1>
you can a) use lts.conf to adjust single values .... or b) use a static xorg.conf you copy into the client environment and point to from lts.conf via the X_CONF variable
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07:10
<tarzeau>
ogra1: a) how does that line look like? i need two more font paths
07:10
ogra1: the other thing i don't want to, since i don't want to manage one more config file for many hosts
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09:40
<Gadi>
ogra1: gutentag
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09:51
<cliebow_>
Hai!
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11:22
<iMacGyver>
i'm using ltsp with edubuntu and i'm trying to disable screen blanking, the screensavers are off, how do you add settings to the generated xorg.conf?
11:30
ok, you can set X_DPMS_* options in lts.conf
11:36
<lns>
iMacGyver, where did you find that info?
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11:43
<iMacGyver>
http://ltsp.sourceforge.net/ltsp-4.1.1.html
11:43
old documentation :-p
11:43
i'm going to set all the values to 0 and see if it helps
11:45
<Gadi>
iMacGyver: that won't work - but you CAN add an Xsession script on the server that executes: xset -dpms ; xset s off
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11:46
<iMacGyver>
Gadi: why won't that work?
11:47
<Gadi>
X_DPMS_* I dont believe are ltsp5 vars
11:47
at least, I don't see them used in configure-x.sh
11:47
<iMacGyver>
hmm
11:47
<Gadi>
so, just do it at the server
11:50
<iMacGyver>
looking at the files in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/Xsession.d/ they say they are sourced and not executed...
11:54
should i just exec that?
12:01
<lns>
Gadi, is configure-x.sh where all lts.conf options live?
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12:04
<Gadi>
iMacGyver: add a script that says something like: xset s off || true
12:05
(add the || true, so it doesnt break things if xset fails)
12:05
lns: no - that script configures X
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12:09
<iMacGyver>
Gadi: where?
12:10
<Gadi>
iMacGyver: on the server in /etc/X11/Xsession.d
12:10
not on the client
12:10
no need to modify the client
12:10
<iMacGyver>
ah ok
12:20
Gadi: i put it on the server in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/83-monitor-stay-on but when i log in with a client i do an xset -q and it says dpms is enabled...could something be turning it on?
12:20
<Gadi>
hmm... try doing a lower number, like 10
12:20
<iMacGyver>
xset -dpms || true
12:22
same thing
12:23
<Gadi>
hmm... maybe you screensaver is enabling it
12:23
are yo uusing gnome?
12:23
<iMacGyver>
yes, using gnome
12:23
<Gadi>
have you tried either adjusting gnome-screensaver or eliminating it from your session startup?
12:23
<iMacGyver>
screensaver is set to never activate...but is running
12:24
<Gadi>
try adding a gnome startup script with xset -dpms
12:25
<iMacGyver>
ok, disabled 'power-managment' session startup and now dpms stays disabled
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12:31
<lns>
Gadi, so have X_DPMS settings within lts.conf just been eliminated from ltsp5? Seems like something worth porting!
12:32
I have some issues with thin clients on occasion that blank the screen and won't come back.
12:32* vagrantc didn't know there were X_DPMS settings
12:32
<vagrantc>
there's certainly no code to handle those options in lts.conf ... there were in 4.x ?
12:33
<lns>
vagrantc, as far as http://ltsp.sourceforge.net/ltsp-4.1.1.html says, yes
12:33
<vagrantc>
lns: file a wishlist bug
12:33
<lns>
ok
12:36
<ogra1>
well, it wouldnt have helped at all in that case ...
12:36
(and we dont set them by default)
12:38
vagrantc, dpms is something to be handled at runtime in userspace nowadays ...
12:39
<lns>
ogra1, do you mean it needs to be configured per-user?
12:39
<vagrantc>
ogra1: well, it should be handled somewhere
12:39
<lns>
i know userspace is just not privilged kernelspace..but where can we configure dpms on a network-wide level?
12:39
Just filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/185443
12:39
<ogra1>
/apps/gnome-power-manager/backlight/dpms_method_ac sets it in gnome and there is an equivalent in KDE as well
12:40
with the full dropping of xorg.conf andthe switch to sysfs for X settings that wil all change anyway
12:40
(upstream)
12:41
witin the next 6 monts we need to get hal on the clients etc to have mouse and keyboard settings support :/
12:41
<vagrantc>
eeyk.
12:42
<ogra1>
i'm fine to add the option as long as we still use xorg.conf, but its really something to be handled in the session in userspace in the near future
12:42
xorg will totally rely on hal soon
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12:44
<johnny>
yay
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12:45
<ogra1>
johnny, that means we'll have to raise the HW requirements again
12:45
running hal, dbus and friends on a thin client isnt actually cheap ressource wise
12:45
<johnny>
it should be optimized
12:46
but so should lots of gnome :)
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12:59
<lns>
hmm
12:59
i guess that throws "cheap, recycled hardware" out the window of possibility for thin clients.. =p
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13:01
<johnny>
lns, if you want that, use xfce instead of gnome
13:01
or fluxbox
13:02
but really the problem is apps like openoffice and firefox
13:02
<lns>
right
13:02
<johnny>
not gnome itself
13:02
that's my experience
13:02
<lns>
well all that stuff is run on the server
13:02
at least for the most part
13:02
dbus/hardware stuff needs to be loaded directly on the client
13:03
which increases h/w requirements
13:03
<johnny>
sure.. but that could be optimized
13:03
<lns>
optimized enough so people won't have to purchase new thin clients if they have a P300 w/64mb ram?
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13:04
<johnny>
64 is awful low
13:04
imo
13:04
<lns>
agreed
13:04
but that's what was touted as "plenty" when i got into ltsp
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13:04
<lns>
which was...a year ago?
13:04
<johnny>
hmm.. i don't know anything about that ;)
13:04
on gnome?
13:04
<lns>
gnome is run on the server
13:05
<johnny>
the server side hardware
13:05
is still pretty hardcore with gnome
13:05
<lns>
the school district that i work for was outraged that, when a competing company was installign a windows based thin client environment, they said they had to up the ram from 128mb to 512
13:05
<johnny>
128 should be fine
13:06
i don't see how hal would make you go up from that
13:06
<lns>
i don't know specifically how much hal/friends will take up ...
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13:06
<johnny>
lemme see
13:07
<stgraber>
well, I have been able to run a standard Ubuntu desktop (dbus+hal+X+gnome+...) on a 300Mhz and 128MB (installing using the alternate installer though)
13:07
<johnny>
looks like less than 5 mb
13:07
in total
13:07
<stgraber>
so RAM shouldn't be the problem if dbus and hal are added
13:08
<johnny>
i don't know how much exactly
13:08
i could add it up i guess
13:08
if gnome was optimized just a bit more
13:08
you'd never even notice
13:08* johnny wonders
13:09
<johnny>
how they would interact with server side hal
13:09
maybe it can run the processing on the server
13:09
and the listening on the client
13:09
ie: minihal
13:09
just talks to the main one
13:09
something like that
13:09
lns, there's lots of opportunity
13:09
but nobody is funding it.. so it's slow going
13:10
<lns>
well my specific situation is this
13:10
i have 6 labs of 35 computers each with 64mb ram
13:10
they're celery 500's
13:10
<johnny>
nice processing at least
13:10
<lns>
so if ltsp requirements go up to 128 or whatever because of anything, the district IT manager is not going to be a happy camper
13:10
<johnny>
more cache would be nice, but it's fast enough..
13:10
well you don't have to upgrade :)
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13:11
<lns>
good =) that's what my main concern was (even though i was probably jumping to conclusions...i need one of those mats =p)
13:11
<johnny>
yes.. you were :)
13:11
<lns>
you see
13:11
<johnny>
just saying i personally would never buy anything less than128 for mine
13:11
<lns>
there would be these different CONCLUSIONS
13:11
<johnny>
for the future
13:11
<lns>
that you could JUMP to! =p
13:11
right...well these were old machines they were going to replace if they couldn't get something going (like ltsp) on them
13:12
<johnny>
cuz i would like the possiblity of running local apps
13:12
especially for stuff like ekiga/skype whatever
13:12
<lns>
all of my ltsp customers like the fact that they can run it on aging, existing hardware
13:12
<stgraber>
looking at my current usage, it's like 7MB for hal+dbus
13:13
<johnny>
how much is actually in use on the clients now lns ? i'm not near my env to check
13:13
<lns>
i'll have to check next time when i'm on site
13:13* johnny tries to figure out how to deal with sabayon's xsession-errors spew
13:14
<lns>
bbl
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13:33
<vagrantc>
the ever-increasing demand for ram definitely puts a pinch on things.
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15:02
<zodman>
some alive ?
15:03
im have a dim keyboard ( a circular interface for old pc's 486)
15:03
when start the Xorg on ltsp client
15:03
the keyboard not function
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15:04
<zodman>
the keyboard is in /dev/input/event0
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15:04
<zodman>
how fix the proble
15:05
<vagrantc>
doesn't recognize AT keyboard?
15:06
<zodman>
on the termial yes
15:06
but the Xorg not
15:06
<vagrantc>
zodman: X works, just no keyboard, or it fails to start X ?
15:06
<zodman>
not fails vagrantc, the X is up
15:06
but not keyboard
15:07
the litghs's of caps not function
15:07
but before function good
15:07
the xorg not recognice AT keyboard
15:08
on mi hwinfo report the kernel recognize
15:08
the keyboard
15:08
<vagrantc>
i don't even know where to start with that ... haven't really used AT keyboards for 4 or so years, really
15:09
<zodman>
ok vagrantc tnx
15:11
vagrantc: a small question how restart the xserver on ltsp client ?
15:13
<stillflame>
zodman: are you sitting at it right now, or trying to restart it remotely?
15:14
<zodman>
both
15:14
:)
15:14
remote im on ssh on the client
15:14
remote
15:14
<stillflame>
which login manager is it using, gdm or ldm?
15:15
well, `invoke-rc.d ldm restart`
15:15
<zodman>
ok
15:16
<vagrantc>
no, ldm isn't started in an init script
15:16
unfortunately
15:17
<zodman>
yeah
15:17
im seen the X -query blah blah :myscreen
15:18
oooooooooooooh is function
15:18
jejeje
15:19
add the keyboar section the Option "Device" "dev/input/event0"
15:19
juaz
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16:31* warren just realized, there is no reason to have the mkdst wrapper script in each source repo anymore.
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16:56
<Furlow>
Im not actually using ltsp right now but I tried to set it up and failed miserably. I even tried edubuntu which comes with it installed already and had no luck , I have a Epox-4pda2+ and in the bios it has the option to enable the onboard boot rom, so i made sure it was selected on and i selected it as the first priority in the boot menu and still it wouldn't load from the network. just yestarday i pressed ESC and i noticed i could select what to boot from so
16:56
<Q-FUNK>
warren: are you still on the road?
16:57
<warren>
Q-FUNK, no, back now
16:57
Q-FUNK, my environment to boot a thin client is hosed, that's what I'm fixing now =)
16:57
<Q-FUNK>
warren: ok. any items you guys feel like picking up in the -amd driver development?
16:57
<warren>
Q-FUNK, after I got back I got really sick for a few days, food poisoning
16:57
Q-FUNK, it sounded like one of our X guys was going to port it to Xorg 1.5
16:58
Q-FUNK, have you seen any of that yet?
16:58
I don't know what their schedule is.
16:58
<Q-FUNK>
warren: nope. it would be a good idea for him to contact us.
16:58
<Furlow>
any help?
16:59
please?
16:59
<Q-FUNK>
Furlow: sorry, your bug doesn't ring a bell here. maybe someone else knows. if they do, they will reply.
16:59
<Furlow>
thanks
17:00
I think it might just be my pc and not a ltsp software problem
17:00
<Q-FUNK>
warren: or more precisely, to contact bart
17:00
<warren>
asking him now
17:03
<Q-FUNK>
warren: we've got someone at ubuntu who made a patch against server 1.4, in addition to bart's 1.3 server patch. if someone can pick up ubuntu's 1.4 patch and massage this into somthing suitable for the upstream git tree, it would be neat.
17:04
warren: at any rate, contacting bart would be desirable, to avoid duplicated efforts
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17:04
<Q-FUNK>
warren: but if you guys can also pick up other items on the -amd wiki page, it would be nice.
17:05
<warren>
Q-FUNK, I don't know what our people's schedule is, I need to find out.
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17:10
<Q-FUNK>
warren: ok. please keep us posted.
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17:35
<Solv>
i've noticed that the ubuntu ltsp uses it's own dhcp conf file under /etc/ltsp/dhcpd,conf rather than the systems own one under /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf....when i start the dhcp3-server daemon, which config file is it using? Also why does it not just use the servers own dhcp setup?
17:36
i want to be able to stup webmin to be able to control the dhcp server...so how can i tell it to use ltsp's conf file, or alternatively...get ltsp to use the standard one?
17:57
<johnny_>
don't ask me why there is a seperate file..
17:57
luckily i didn't have to care
17:57
i used dnsmasq instead
17:57
<Solv>
johnny, well it's driving me nuts...cause i don't know if it uses a seperate daemon, a seperate leases file...seperate hosts file etc etc
18:03
<johnny_>
look in the init.d file
18:03
you'll see which is which
18:05
<Solv>
yeah true...but if it does use the /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf file then it means some other daemon exists to launch /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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18:07
<centrauma>
Hi everyone!!! I'm need help in edubuntu with ltsp5 the LDM_USERNAME in lts.conf not work only show black window with X cursor in screen. And not more.
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22:23
<vagrantc>
otavio: hrm. so i don't get it, but according to: http://lintian.debian.org/reports/maintainer/pkg-ltsp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org.html#ltsp
22:23
otavio: there are several lintian errors i've never seen
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22:27
<vagrantc>
otavio: for some reason the manpages aren't getting installed ... even though when i build it in a clean pbuilder environment it works.
22:27
i'll post to the list about it
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22:48
<vagrantc>
oh, i think i just figured it out ...
22:49
the buildd's only do binary-arch, and we had the dh_installman in binary-indep
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