IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 April 2011   (all times are UTC)

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04:22
<Naranek>
does anyone have mozplugger working in firefox under ltsp?
04:24
I can't get evince or xpdf to view pdf documents in a frame, and it seems it might be related to ltsp
04:24
at least they worked out of the box in my standalone installation
04:25
<muppis>
Do you have evince installed in chroot?
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04:35
<Naranek>
yeah
04:35
it works fine standalone
04:36
I logged into the server, and the evince now says that content type text/plain is not supported.
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04:37
<Naranek>
strange, as it should be text/pdf to even start evince
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04:46
<Naranek>
oh nevermind... it might have something to do with our pdf frame which seems to be funkier than I thought
04:47
<muppis>
:d
04:48
Funny. Had Caps Lock turned on, because Win XP in kvm reported it is on and pressed once to turn it of..
04:48
+f
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05:24
<the_5th_wheel>
Howdy. Im having some speed issues with LTSP, so I thought I would enable LDM_DIRECTX, but i dont know how to verify that its working. I saw a bunch of ssh connections when the terminal booted.
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07:08
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
07:09
<evil_root>
I love the canterbury distribution, i have been laughing for about half an hour now
07:10shawnp0wers (~Adium@linuxjournal/staff/shawnp0wers) joined #ltsp.
07:12
<knipwim>
evil_root: good sign of cross-distro cooperation
07:12
<evil_root>
lol
07:12
<dberkholz>
as usual, fedora's off doing its own thing =P
07:26
<cliebow>
evil_root, why laughing??
07:26
<evil_root>
thats funnier then google joke today
07:26
well
07:26
as funny as
07:26
i love april 1
07:27
<cliebow>
ohhhh i get it
07:27
<evil_root>
Canterbury Tales
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08:03
<matrix30001>
we just updated ltsp, and now we are getting No response from server, restarting..." error when we try to login to the thin clients
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08:03
<matrix30001>
any suggestions?
08:03
we updated our LTSP server my bad, I don't know the packages as my boss was the one you did the update
08:04* _UsUrPeR_ tips his hat
08:09
<Gadi>
matrix30001: check auth.log and ssh
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08:27
<vagrantc>
matrix30001: did your IP address change?
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08:59
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: finally got a chance to try out your spacefun theme
09:00
highvoltage: curious on the choice of murrine for the greeter-gtkrc file
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09:09
<evil_root>
matrix30001 try ltsp-update-sshkeys and then ltsp-update-image, if that does not work see if you can ssh from the client to the server without errors or warnings
09:10
<matrix30001>
yea, evil_root, we did that and it fixed it
09:10
what would cause that after a system update?
09:10
<vagrantc>
change of ip address
09:10
<evil_root>
sweet
09:10* vagrantc ponders defaulting ldm to ignore ip address
09:11
<matrix30001>
we didn't change the ip
09:11
IP was the same
09:12
<evil_root>
did the ssh package update?
09:12
<matrix30001>
we did a system update, where could I see the update logs to verify if ssh was included
09:12
<evil_root>
no clue on ubuntu, just throwing out guesses lol
09:13
<vagrantc>
matrix30001: what do you mean by system update
09:14
i.e. an upgrade to a new release? just some regular updates?
09:15
<matrix30001>
reg updates
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09:18
<vagrantc>
matrix30001: is your server's ip address gotten from dhcp?
09:18
<matrix30001>
hell no
09:23
<alkisg>
the_5th_wheel: try: ltsp-localapps xterm, and then: getltscfg -a
09:26
<matrix30001>
vagrantc: no, servers are static here, so the IP never changed
09:36
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: hey there
09:37
vagrantc: as for the murrine theme, I liked the way it looked around the login box. like http://jonathancarter.org/files/images/ldm_ltsp.png compared to http://jonathancarter.org/files/images/ldm_spacefun.png
09:37
vagrantc: but it doesn't matter all that much. I guess murrine isn't in the default debian ltsp chroot then?
09:39
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: no. strangely enough, i patch ldm to use gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks, as it's the smallest dependency
09:39
upstream uses clearlooks, but that pulls in a bunch of themes
09:39
though, sometimes i reconsider that idea.
09:40
it saves nearly 1MB in the chroot, though... but at the expense of maintaining an upstream patch
09:41
gtk2-engines-murrine itself is quite small, but recommends murrine-themes, which adds 8MB to the chroot
09:41
<highvoltage>
ouch
09:41
<knipwim>
now that you're talking about themes
09:42
do you edit those in a special wysiwyg program
09:42
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I thought that recommends wasn't installed in the chroot by default...?
09:42
<knipwim>
or texteditor?
09:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: debian installs recommends by default
09:42
ubuntu maybe disabled it?
09:42
<alkisg>
Don't we all disable it in the ltsp-build-client?
09:43* alkisg looks if it's ubuntu specific...
09:43
<vagrantc>
no
09:44
i don't think it's a good idea to disable recommends by default.
09:44
and won't do it
09:44
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: you were away when I got back to my irc session the other day and I caught up to you suggesting an ldm-thmes package
09:44
vagrantc: should I go ahead with that or are you working on it?
09:44
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: yeah, i think spacefun should just go into an ldm-themes package
09:44
highvoltage: run with your enthusiasm :)
09:44
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I totally agree with you, I just thought it was there for both distros. It looks like debian only disables it on the kiosk plugin
09:44
<highvoltage>
yay
09:45
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: that way it requires less beurocracy to introduce new themes and such
09:45
<alkisg>
Ubuntu disables recommented packages + deletes all services as part of the RC_WHITELIST, and that makes boot time short, but it also causes a lot of problems
09:46
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: also, might want to get in touch with the general debian-artwork team (if you can figure out how) ... might be good to get it on their radar
09:47
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: ok, will do
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12:19
<_UsUrPeR_>
anybody mind explaining ltsp's auto login features? I am trying to use LDM_AUTOLOGIN = True
12:20
and a line below [192.168.7.21] with LDM_username=test LDM_PASSWORD=test
12:20
according to the auth.log, the client is attempting to authenticate using it's hostname, ltsp21
12:20
<mgariepy>
LDM_USERNAME
12:20
?
12:21
<_UsUrPeR_>
If I use a MAC address, the client automatically works correctly
12:21
just not an IP address
12:21
mgariepy: it's all caps. typo there
12:21
<mgariepy>
ok
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12:21
<mgariepy>
i don't know then, i use autologin on ltsp-cluster, it's kinda more adminfriendly
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12:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg: ping?
12:24
<alkisg>
_UsUrPeR_: kinda busy... :)
12:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok
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12:26
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: sounds like it's ignoring your ip-based configurations in lts.conf?
12:26
<_UsUrPeR_>
vagrantc: that is correct
12:26
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: if you change other things based on IP address, do they take effect?
12:27
<_UsUrPeR_>
vagrantc: lemme check that. screen_07=shell
12:27
<vagrantc>
i saw one machine that refused to work with mac address, but worked with ip address ...
12:28
it was bizarre.
12:28
wonder if you're experiencing the opposite
12:29
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm
12:29
this is definitely a server issue
12:30
I am running two clients off of the server and experiencing the same problems
12:30
one moment
12:30
rebooting client again
12:31
hmm
12:32
screen_07 = shell doesn't seem to...
12:32
do anything
12:33
<mistik1>
Hey guys
12:34
This is non LTSP related but just thought you guys would appreciate what can be done with Linux Audio. Our oomidi intro video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPRe0mWAKJc
12:35
We will have final release in a week or two :)
12:36
<_UsUrPeR_>
vagrantc: ok, not sure what changed, but it just worked.
12:37
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: glad to be of service. :)
12:38
<_UsUrPeR_>
vagrantc: I am convinced you are magic...
12:43
vagrantc: will hostnames work in the lts.conf?
12:43
instead of ip addresses?
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12:57
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: they should
12:57
_UsUrPeR_: should support hostname, ip address or mac address
12:57
<_UsUrPeR_>
vagrantc: so I have named an IP address in the server's /etc/hosts file
12:57
and then put it between brackets in the lts.conf
12:57
no dice
12:58
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: the client needs to recognize it as its' hostname
12:58
<_UsUrPeR_>
vagrantc: so.... dhcp assignment?
12:58
<mistik1>
so dns is in oder
12:58* vagrantc nods to mistik1
12:59
<_UsUrPeR_>
ahh
12:59
ok
12:59
<mistik1>
I used to have dhcpd update my bind server
13:01Nick change: evil_root -> zz_evil_root
13:07
<mistik1>
vagrantc: did you get a chance to check out that video?
13:07
<vagrantc>
mistik1: which video?
13:08
<mistik1>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPRe0mWAKJc
13:08
Its what we have been doing the last 3 months :)
13:09
writing that forking MuSE and making it actually do the job
13:10
the song was written in open octave midi by one of our team members, a Mr Alex Stone
13:22Kicer86 (~Kicer86@host-5db0eeee.sileman.net.pl) left irc: Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.2, revision: 4740, sources date: 20100627, built on: 2010-08-08 18:29:00 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/
13:23
<Gadi>
vagrantc: for the record, I had proposed the same thing you just proposed to the mailing list since we wrote LDM
13:23
:)
13:24* vagrantc wonders what vagrantc said about it
13:24
<vagrantc>
at least making it a configuration option ...
13:25
<Gadi>
the no check ip stuff
13:25
<vagrantc>
yeah
13:25
i just wonder what i said when you proposed it
13:26
<Gadi>
well, I probably proposed a more drastic config
13:26
of StrictHostKeyChecking no
13:26
but only because if a key exists and is wrong, that will still fail
13:27
so, a security-minded IT staff can still avoid mim attacks
13:29
<vagrantc>
Gadi: so with StrickHostKeyChecking=no ... wouldn't that always add the ssh key to the known_Hosts file?
13:30
at which point, doesn't that make MITM attacks trivial?
13:31
<Gadi>
no - if the admin puts the key in the known_hosts (say with ltsp-update-sshkeys),
13:31
then it will use that one
13:31
and fail if it is different
13:32
<vagrantc>
but if the ip address doesn't match, it'll just add it?
13:32
<Gadi>
only if the admin adds nothing
13:32Last message repeated 1 time(s).
13:32
<Gadi>
not if there is a pre-existing key
13:32
<vagrantc>
if there's a pre-existing key, it'll behave just like it does now?
13:32
<Gadi>
right
13:33
<vagrantc>
if there's a key for hostname, but not ip ... ?
13:33
<Gadi>
prolly depends on what you feed ssh
13:33
are you feeding it an ip or a hostname?
13:35
<vagrantc>
typically, i'll feed it a hostname, but it will add a hostname/ip entry in known_hosts if i answer yes with StrictHostKeyChecking=ask (the default)
13:36
<Gadi>
right
13:36
LDM always feeds it an IP, I think
13:36
LDM_SERVER
13:36
unless LDM_SERVER is supplied as a hostname
13:37
<vagrantc>
oh... fun.
13:37
<Gadi>
I don't think you are safe in playing a game of IP vs hostname
13:37
<vagrantc>
the lengths we've gone through to not use DNS are begging to show signs of pain and agony
13:38
<Gadi>
well, LDM_SERVER = SERVER = NBDROOTSERVER = an IP
13:38
by default
13:38
no?
13:38
<vagrantc>
yes
13:38
<Gadi>
and since it is admin-suppliable you never know
13:38
unless we resolve it before using it
13:38
:)
13:40
but, if you have a key - by hotname or ip - in your known_hosts that doesn't match, even with StrictHostKeyChecking no, the session will fail
13:40
the only thing StrictHostKeyChecking does is auto-add a new key if none exists
13:40
which means if I don't care about security, I can happily have an empty known_hosts file to start
13:40
and no problems
13:41
if I do care about security, I can populate known_hosts with the correct keys
13:41
and know that it will fail if the key changes
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13:46
<vagrantc>
so, my CheckHostIP=no wouldn't help much in the default scenario, since that uses an IP address.
13:46
what about adding arbitrary ssh commandline options ... didn't we have something like that once?
13:47
<Gadi>
we still do, I think
13:47
SSH_EXTRAOPTIONS or something
13:47
I forget
13:47* vagrantc thinks it got lost in one of the rewrites
13:48
<vagrantc>
LDM_SSHOPTIONS ...
13:49
ah, it appears to be in there.
13:50
<Roasted>
well... just ordered some RAM for the server to convert our fat client lab to thin
13:50
crossin fingers...
13:52
<vagrantc>
Roasted: you managed to convince them?
13:52
<Roasted>
well having to authenticate to our servers 4 times during each session was enough of a pain
13:52
due to issues with domain authentication with how fat clients vs likewise open works
13:52
so I was asked, how can I fix it. I said thin clients. they said do it. I said need ram.
13:53
I won. :P
13:53
hopefully 12gb and a pair of dual core xeon processors is enough to push 30 clients
13:53
over gb lines
13:54
<Gadi>
authenticate 4 times? dare I ask?
13:54
<Roasted>
file servers
13:54* vagrantc suspects Gadi would have figured out a better way
13:54
<Roasted>
then for some reason if you open up libre office and try to save it to your server folder, it asks you again who you are
13:54
so you have to authenticate. again.
13:54
whereas thin clients just *dont* do that
13:54
we're working with Edubuntu 10.10 on a Windows domain using Likewise Open.
13:55
<Gadi>
what mounts the shares?
13:55
<Roasted>
I have links on the desktop
13:55
via samba
13:56
<Gadi>
are you using NFS_HOME for the fat clients?
13:56
<Roasted>
no
13:56
<Gadi>
that may be it
13:56
<Roasted>
never heard of it
13:56
<Gadi>
good thing Im here then
13:56
:)
13:56
<Roasted>
think it'll do the trick?
13:56
whatever it is
13:57
<Gadi>
so, by default, fat clients try to not require you to do any extra service setup on the server
13:57
so, they use sshfs to mount /home
13:57
on the client
13:57
sshfs doesn't handle file locking well
13:57
which means certain apps get nasty
13:57
like google earth
13:58
or some others
13:58
that try to create locks
13:58
<Roasted>
ultimately, what's the point of nfs_home. does it just hold credentials in cache so it re-authenticates on the fly or something?
13:58
<Gadi>
so, with NFS_HOME, you can export /home on the server to be mounted to /home on the client via NFS server
13:59
then, it uses NFS instead of sshfs
13:59
which likes locking more
13:59
<Roasted>
what do I need to do? Just add NFS_HOME in lts.conf?
13:59
<Gadi>
adding NFS_HOME in lts.conf will tell the client what the share is to mount
13:59
but, you also need to install nfs server on the server
14:00
and set up /etc/exports
14:00
to export /home through NFS
14:00
<Roasted>
maybe I'm having some difficulty understanding how everything links up. But if it exports /home through NFS, what exactly would that do to my benefit?
14:00
Because /home is currently not really used.
14:00
<Gadi>
sure it is
14:00
<Roasted>
Students mount their share and work out of it, which resides on the windows file server.
14:00
<Gadi>
u have users, dont you?
14:01
doesnt matter
14:01
<Roasted>
Domain users, yes.
14:01
No local users.
14:01
<Gadi>
when your user makes that connection to the samba share
14:01
the connection is made through a socket
14:01
which involves it creating a socket file in $HOME
14:01
I believe
14:02
and the proc requests a lock on the socket file
14:02
so as to not let other procs mess with it
14:03
anyway
14:03
<Roasted>
Is there documentation on how to set this up?
14:03
<Gadi>
yeah one
14:03
one sec
14:04
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients#NFS_HOME
14:04
<Roasted>
will I notice any speed differences iwth this?
14:05
<Gadi>
shouldnt
14:06
in the exports file, I would probably add "nolock" to the list of options
14:06
that helps with some things, too
14:06
I have found
14:07
<Roasted>
so ultimately you think this will allow my fat clients, who aren't on the domain (despite the fact the server is) to auto allow domain users to authenticate on the fly (while logged in) without needing to put their credentials in over and over for each server they try to access?
14:08
<Gadi>
worth a try - especially if you said it works that way as a thin client
14:08
<Roasted>
how can I bounce back if this tanks?
14:08
<Gadi>
as a thin client, you don't get prompted for a password to mount the share?
14:08
take out NFS_HOME
14:08
easy
14:09
<Roasted>
of lts.conf?
14:09
no
14:09
<Gadi>
yeah
14:09
<Roasted>
I never get prompted
14:09
because it looks at my domain login
14:09
its seamless
14:09
I log in once. at th elogin screen. from there I can go wherever I desire.
14:09
wherever I have access, it allows me to go, just as if I was a windows box
14:09
<Gadi>
hmm
14:09
not sure
14:09
it may still not work
14:10
<Roasted>
from what I understand, when you join a linux pc to the domain, its JOINED
14:10
and thin clients see that since the chroot is part of the server, or something
14:10
<Gadi>
it may be relying on something else to do that
14:10
<Roasted>
but fat clients do not because it's independent from the server
14:10
<Gadi>
right - the fat clients have a different auth stack
14:10
<Roasted>
yeah
14:10
I think that's where the issue is
14:10
And it just so happens, it's THAT much of a PITA that I won't deploy any more fat clients while we are still authenticating against AD.
14:11
I'll use thin clients.
14:11
<Gadi>
probably - but its worth ashot at NFS_HOME bec you might need it later for some programs
14:11
like google earth
14:11
:)
14:11
<Roasted>
looks easy enough to try out
14:11
<Gadi>
even if you run them as LocalApps
14:11
<Roasted>
might as well
14:13
so if this tanks and doesn't run the way I want, even though I'm installing a few apps to the chroot and server, I can let them there and just simply take out NFS_HOME in lts.conf and bam - I'm good?
14:13
<Gadi>
yeah - you don't need to change ur chroot
14:14
just install nfs sserver on the server and set it up
14:14
and add NFS_HOME to lts.conf
14:14
<Roasted>
It says I need nfs-common in the chroot
14:14
<Gadi>
actually, the chroot may need the nfs-common pkg
14:14
to mount the nfs share
14:14
<Roasted>
:P
14:14
<Gadi>
but that is just so that it knows how to mount nfs
14:14
sorry
14:14
<Roasted>
might as well be safe - right? :P
14:14
<Gadi>
one change to the chroot
14:15
but it is independent of anything else
14:15
<Roasted>
update required?
14:15
btw should I be alarmed of "can not update log" errors when installing things on the chroot?
14:15
<vagrantc>
Gadi: my guess is NFS_HOME wouldn't work because NFS doesn't export sub-mounts.
14:16
<Gadi>
vagrantc: ?
14:16
he's not exporting the submounts
14:16
he is mounting atop an nfs mount
14:16
when he clicks the icon
14:17
<vagrantc>
it might check something in the homedir that treats it as authenticated?
14:18
<Roasted>
well
14:18
updating now
14:18
we'll see if it takes effect in the way I'd like it :P
14:18
if not, I'll just pray a pair of xeon dual core procs and 12gb of RAM can push 30 thin clients, as its my only fallback
14:20
<vagrantc>
one would hope that's enough
14:20
<Roasted>
yeah
14:20
it's not a top end server
14:20
but I'm pretty sure the processing power is enough
14:21
and I would think the ram would be too... but I never ran 30 thin. only 9.
14:23
well, we're updated.
14:23
crossing fingers :P
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14:30
<Roasted>
no difference
14:30
thin clients, here we come!!
14:31
ah, he left. dangit. ah well.
14:31
it's quittin time, guys. thanks for the help. take it easy.
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<alkisg>
gad
16:45
oops
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00:00--- Sat Apr 2 2011