IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 May 2012   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<vagrantc>
eddytv: although earlier, you didn't have any problem with X starting ... what changed since then?
00:01
<eddytv>
No, X never started -- it always errored out because it couldn't find any matching modes for this client's TV display
00:02
So putting my custom xorg.conf in (which I figured was the easiest way to get X working, rather than trying to figure out what lts.conf option I needed to set appropriate modelines, etc.) was the simplest solution for now
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00:11
<vagrantc>
ah, ok.
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04:22
<alkisg>
vagrantc: hi, I'm thinking that shipping an /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf file as part of ltsp-client is the best way to (a) allow the users to edit the command line (b) preserve their changes on updates (c) work with older chroots or chroots of a different distro. Example content:
04:22
NBD_CMDLINE='ro initrd=$INITRD root=/dev/nbd0 init=/sbin/init-ltsp nbdroot=$SERVER:$PORT$NBD_NAME'
04:22
NFS_CMDLINE='ro initrd=$INITRD root=/dev/nfs init=/sbin/init-ltsp'
04:22
If you don't mind shipping such a file (or generating it on postinst), I'd prefer to have ltsp-update-kernels and update-kernels rely on its existence, makes the code saner too
04:33
<eddytv>
Hi alkisg. Did you see my comment above about /tmp being mode 755 on my diskless clients? Just curious if you know why that is happening (it's correct in the /opt/ltsp/amd64 tree itself).
04:34
<alkisg>
eddytv: is that a newly built chroot, or the old 11.04 one?
04:34
<eddytv>
New.
04:34
Built with 12.04
04:35
It prevents X from starting
04:35
If I ssh in to the diskless client and 'chmod 1777 /tmp', X starts up
04:36
I'm heading off to bed, but if you can think of anything to check, I'll look for ideas in the morning. I hate to put in a hack in rc.local if it can be fixed properly.
04:36
<alkisg>
Does /tmp/ show up in `cat /proc/mounts` on the client?
04:39
<vagrantc>
alkisg: hm.
04:41
alkisg: encoding the server and port and NBD_NAME seems like a bad idea ... but otherwise sure, i guess.
04:41
<cyberorg>
alkisg, we use another script to configure pxelinux.cfg/default, "root=..." is not required on suse
04:41
<alkisg>
cyberorg: you'd just ship a different command line in the client /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf, like all other distros
04:42
Each distro would ship the command line it needs, there's no need to have different scripts, it's just a configuration file
04:42
vagrantc: are you talking in general about the presence of variables in those NBD_CMDLINE etc lines?
04:42
Or about the server parts specifically?
04:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah, you used '' instead of "" ... so the variables are meant to be updated on the server?
04:43
<alkisg>
update-kernels in the chroot will still generate a correct command line, i.e. it'll replace NBD_NAME with the chroot arch like it does now
04:43
vagrantc: here's the long version:
04:43
<vagrantc>
might be useful to have an $NFSROOT as well, then.
04:44
<alkisg>
Of course
04:44
The chroot is generated, update-kernels (should) run at the end of ltsp-build-client, and at that point it tries to generate pxelinux.cfg/default, .nbi kernels etc
04:44
<cyberorg>
alkisg, here is an example of what it looks like http://cyberorg.co.in/default
04:44
<vagrantc>
update-kernels client-side?
04:45
<alkisg>
Client side, yes
04:45
cyberorg: yes in order to generate that you'd ust need to provide NBD_CMDLINE and NFS_CMDLINE in client's /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
04:45
And you'd automatically get NFS or/and NBD entries as the server supports them
04:46
<cyberorg>
alkisg, we dont use NBD_CMDLINE and NFS_CMDLINE
04:46
user's customization goes in default.local
04:46
<alkisg>
cyberorg: ubuntu server / opensuse chroot, don't you want it to work at this case?
04:47
vagrantc: at that point, update-kernels doesn't know about SERVER, NFSROOT etc, but it can at least replace EXPORT_NAME with $arch
04:47
vagrantc: so the generated command line then will be the same as it is now, no difference
04:48
<vagrantc>
what about things that are shared between NFS and NBD and something as yet undefined ... do we duplicate them?
04:49
alkisg: so what replaces $SERVER, $NFSROOT, etc?
04:49
<alkisg>
vagrantc: then on the server part, ltsp-update-kernels runs. This has more info; it knows if the server needs IPAPPEND or not, the server IP, PORT, EXPORT_NAME (scratch NBD_NAME, not a good variable name). So it can generate a better pxelinux.cfg/default than update-kernels in the chroot
04:50
<vagrantc>
so the chroot would generate a best-effort pxelinux.cfg/default, but server-side it would generate an alternate one?
04:51
<alkisg>
Yup, but then ltsp-update-kernels writes the new info it knows in the chroot /var/lib/ltsp/update-kernels.conf too, so that the next time, the client update-kernels will use it to generate better .nbi images which need embedded command line
04:51
E.g. the EXPORT_NAME
04:52
So both tools share the same pxelinux.cfg/default generation code
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04:53
<vagrantc>
ltsp-update-kernels dumps into $CHROOT/var/lib/ltsp/update-kernels.conf ?
04:53
<alkisg>
Yes, but only the related variables
04:54
<vagrantc>
maybe that should get created before update-kernels ever runs ...
04:55
(client update-kernels)
04:55
so that it can get it right the first time
04:55
<alkisg>
That file can be overriden by the user from /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
04:55
It contains server info, the chroot can't autodetect it
04:56
<vagrantc>
right, that's why we should create that information at chroot build time ... ?
04:56
it might need to get updated when relocating the chroot
04:56
<alkisg>
Ah, sure, yes ltsp-build-client will at least know the EXPORT_NAME which is the most important part
04:57
<vagrantc>
if possible, it saves having to re-run some code.
04:57
and ltsp-update-image should know that too
04:57
ltsp-update-image --export=/ ?
04:58
<alkisg>
I think that those shouldn't be allowed to be provided as parameters to ltsp-update-image/kernels, but only inside the configuration files (or in the environment)
04:58
Otherwise ltsp-update-image just takes those and passes them to ltsp-update-kernels without doing anything with them,
04:59
and it also gets complicated with the big cmdlines that have embedded '$' etc
04:59
<vagrantc>
sure does...
04:59
might need to use templating instead of $
04:59
<alkisg>
CMDLINE can be defined in $CHROOT/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf, period, no parameters :)
04:59
<vagrantc>
some other replaceable value
04:59
<cyberorg>
alkisg, you can go ahead with whatever you are planning, we do not use any ltsp image creation scripts, that part is taken care by kiwi and kiwi-ltsp-setup script
05:00
<alkisg>
cyberorg: ok, ty
05:01
vagrantc: if we use eval, we have a bit more flexibility, for the case where one wants ${VAR+:other value}, dunno if that is needed anywhere though
05:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so the big difference you're proposing is instead of having the defaults shipped in the script, they're actuaally written to a file, which allows the server-side scripts to read that file when needed... ?
05:01
<alkisg>
E.g. we wouldn't want ip=dhcp when IPAPPEND=3 is defined, right?
05:02
<vagrantc>
right
05:02
<alkisg>
vagrantc: yes, they're written to a file, and that file always exists, so that the server can work with chroots of different versions or distros. And they also contain embedded variables for easier evaluation
05:03
So it would be a conffile or a postist-generated file
05:03
Not built by ltsp-build-client or so
05:03
(as e.g. one might not use ltsp-build-client at all)
05:03
<vagrantc>
if people are *likely* to need to edit it, it should be generated... if the defaults will likely work in most cases, we should go with a conffile.
05:04
<alkisg>
I think it should be a conffile
05:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: what about an arbitrary number of types ... rather than NFS_CMDLINE have a CMDLINE_0 ... CMDLINE_9
05:05
alkisg: and could we have a update-kernels.conf.d ?
05:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the server decides between NBD or NFS based on what it sees when ltsp-update-kernels runs
05:05
With arbitrary CMDLINEs, we'd need a way to autodetect which of them are valid or not
05:05
<vagrantc>
alkisg: but i might have 3 different NBD variants
05:05
<alkisg>
For the same chroot?
05:05
<vagrantc>
it's possible.
05:06
i tested using ext2 squashfs with bindmounts and with aufs overlays for a while.
05:06
same NBD image, different commandlines
05:06
(i know bindmounts are all but gone, but the example is feasible...)
05:08
<alkisg>
In general the problem is to see when those CMDLINES are valid (e.g. you don't want NBD cmdlines on debian if the user never ran ltsp-update-image), so it can't support arbitrary types
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05:08
<alkisg>
We can have any number of them, sure, if there's need for it, NBD_CMDLINE_0, NFS_CMDLINE_9...
05:09
<vagrantc>
ISCSI ? AOE ?
05:09
how will we grow?
05:09
alkisg: what about a dir with differnt files for different types ...
05:10
<alkisg>
Suppose the new ltsp-update-kernels will have AOE support, then it will check the chroot's /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf for AOE_CMDLINE. If it's not there, the chroot doesn't support it, so it doesn't include the AOE in pxelinux.cfg/default
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05:11
<alkisg>
So each new method needs both chroot support (initrd scripts, kernel cmdline) and server-side support (check if the server supports AOE or not)
05:11
<vagrantc>
that could be the first part of an arbitrary CMDLINE argument ... i.e. CMDLINE_0="NBD: ..."
05:11
<alkisg>
We could have "USER_PROVIDED_CMDLINE_x" for cases like the one you mentioned with you testing
05:12
And those would be generated unconditionally, without the server checking if they're supported or not
05:13
<vagrantc>
if we're going with a conffile, i think we'll want a conf.d dir
05:13
maybe these are such corner cases ...
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05:15
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so, it seems at least for debian/ubuntu that the different methods will share pieces ... COMMON_OPTS="init=/sbin/init-ltsp ro" ?
05:15
<alkisg>
vagrantc: why? It's just a line, each distro should ship all of it
05:16
NBD_CMDLINE='ro initrd=$INITRD root=/dev/nbd0 init=/sbin/init-ltsp nbdroot=$SERVER:$PORT$NBD_NAME quiet splash vt_handoff=7 etc'
05:17
That vt_handoff part wasn't there in previous versions, and maybe it won't be there in the future either... so ltsp in precise should ship just that, unrelated to any debian parameters or even to other ubuntu version parameters
05:18
<vagrantc>
overall, sounds fine, though i'm suspicious of the included $SERVER:$PORT$NBDNAME business
05:18
<alkisg>
SERVER and PORT are empty by default
05:18
The user only needs to specify them on custom installations
05:18
s/NBD_NAME/EXPORT/
05:18
<vagrantc>
and that's specified server-side?
05:19
<alkisg>
Yes, in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-kernels.conf (not provided by default)
05:19
<vagrantc>
to get the variables to register, it'll have to eval it?
05:20
<alkisg>
Yes. We source the configuration files anyway so there's no security change there
05:20
(we don't parse configuration files, we source them)
05:20
(and they're in /etc already, so...)
05:20
===> err no, we don't _have_ to eval it, but I think it'd be better, to provide for more complicated cases we haven't yet thought of
05:21
Like e.g. "don't include ip=dhcp if IPAPPEND is defined"
05:21
Btw, isn't ip=dhcp the default? Why include it?
05:21
<vagrantc>
i might be the default, yes.
05:22
root=/dev/nfs is no longer really needed either
05:22
boot=nfs takes care of both of those, i thinkk.
05:22
<alkisg>
Cool
05:23
My other thought was for ltsp-update-kernels to try to parse the chroot's pxelinux.cfg/default, and only replace the bits it knows
05:23
Like, nbdroot=
05:23
nbdport=, etc
05:23
But that way it can't automatically add support for NFS/NBD etc
05:23
<vagrantc>
right
05:23
<alkisg>
Hmmm
05:23
Here's another thought
05:24
What if we didn't try to do NFS/NBD detection, and left that up to the sysadmin, i.e.:
05:24
Debian would ship $chroot/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf with:
05:24
#NBD_CMDLINE=xxx (commented out)
05:24
NFS_CMDLINE=xxx
05:24
And Ubuntu with the opposite
05:25
Meh no, that's a server option, not a chroot option :(
05:25
<vagrantc>
right
05:25
<alkisg>
(enabling nbd or not)
05:26
<vagrantc>
at this point, chroots should essentially support both, as long as the NBD image was there.
05:26
i might just have to sleep on it a bit
05:27* vagrantc yawns
05:27
<alkisg>
OK
05:27
I'll try to do unrelated parts of the code for now :)
05:27
<vagrantc>
i mean, you could run with what you've got, too.
05:28
<alkisg>
So I can assume that Nxx_CMDLINE exist in the chroot/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf, otherwise ltsp-update-kernels will die with "I don't know how to handle this chroot?"
05:29
<vagrantc>
wouldn't you be able to just have an include line for the generated pxelinux.cfg/default ?
05:29
<alkisg>
No, because it requires variables from the server side
05:30
<vagrantc>
i.e. /srv/tftp/pxelinux.cfg/default has a sub-menu for each /srv/tftp/*/pxelinux.cfg/default ?
05:30
<alkisg>
The "just include this line in the menu" part isn't related to ltsp-update-kernels, but to the pxelinux menus package
05:30
<vagrantc>
debian's default doesn't require any variables- it's usually passed via dhcp.
05:30
<alkisg>
Ubuntu's too
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05:31
<alkisg>
But the line needs to be there (a) for the sysadmin to be able to easily modify it, (b) for the chroot to declare "yes I support nbd booting", etc etc
05:31
<vagrantc>
so what would ltsp-update-kernels do if not generate a pxelinux config?
05:32
<alkisg>
It would generate a single pxelinux.cfg just for the specific ltsp chroot
05:32
<vagrantc>
so replacing the functionality of the old-style client-side update-kernels ?
05:32
<alkisg>
It doesn't need support for e.g. a localboot option there
05:34
The pxelinux.cfg/default generation code would be in ltsp-update-kernels for sure, but it can also be in update-kernels too (shared from some function) if there's need for it
05:35
<vagrantc>
it's hard to think about this without thinking about the pxemenus integration
05:37
alkisg: if we used a .d infrastructure for it, it would be easier to integrate the /var/lib/ltsp/update-kernels.conf in one visible structure.
05:37
<alkisg>
For me, pxelinux-menus just gathers all pxelinux.inc files in /var/lib/tftpboot, and sets a default, nothing more, it doesn't get involved with specific cmdlines etc
05:38
<vagrantc>
ah, so other things will have to generate pxelinux.inc files...
05:38
<alkisg>
Or ship /etc/pxelinux.d/scripts instead
05:38
(08:37:28 πμ) vagrantc: alkisg: if we used a .d infrastructure for it, it would be easier to integrate the /var/lib/ltsp/update-kernels.conf in one visible structure. ==> I didn't get that one
05:39
That would be written by the server ltsp-update-kernels, and would contain EXPORT=xx, SERVER=xx, PORT=xx, if they're defined server-side by the sysadmin
05:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so instead of /var/lib/ltspp/update-kernels.conf and /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf, we could have /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf.d/00-server-vars.conf (and nbd.conf, nfs.conf, etc.)
05:41
<alkisg>
ltsp-update-kernels would write and update files in /etc every time it runs? Isn't that against the policy or something?
05:42
<vagrantc>
maybe a bad idea, yes.
05:42
<alkisg>
ltsp-update-kernels "caches" the last server info it knows about in $chroot/var, but only the sysadmin should write specific info in $chroot/etc imho
05:42
<vagrantc>
makes sense.
05:42
<alkisg>
So /etc/ would always take precedence over /var/
05:44
...maybe I should postpone all that part for when we start the pxelinux menu package :)
05:45
...and minimize changes in ltsp-update-kernels/update-kernels for now
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05:54
<alkisg>
Sysadmins don't currently have an easy way to permanately change the cmdline though, editing /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default is only temporary
06:04* alkisg thinks he'll postpone most of it for the pxelinux menus package, minimize changes and keep things simple for now
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06:20
<alkisg>
So in Ubuntu, by setting rootpath=":ltsp_i386", we can omit "nbdroot=:ltsp_i386" from the command line, thus making the chroot option updating unnecessary for the default case not involving pxe menus
06:22
vagrantc: $ head -n1 /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/ltsp_i386.conf
06:22
[ltsp_i386]
06:22
==> if that there was [/opt/ltsp/i386] instead, we wouldn't have to change the dhcp rootpath when we switch from nfs to nbd, and we wouldn't need to ship a different dnsmasq-ltsp.conf configuration file for nbd either (for option root-path)
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10:07
<knipwim>
alkisg: i think i've come to a good server config distinction:
10:07
/server/configs contains ltsp specific configs for in /etc/ltsp, distro specific ones in /server/configs/$DISTRO
10:08
/server/docs/examples contains other tool configs, also with a /server/docs/examples/$DISTRO
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10:09
<knipwim>
we can also move /server/configs to /server/etc, /server/etc.Ubuntu etc
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10:10
<knipwim>
alkisg1: did you catch my last 4 lines?
10:10
<alkisg1>
knipwim: nope, let me see the logs...
10:10alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
10:13
<knipwim>
btw, i'd rather have subdirs for distro's in /client/share
10:13
<alkisg>
knipwim: I think we should unity the trunk layout to use the same scheme for all dirs. E.g. now we have init-ltsp.d/common and init-ltsp.d/distro, it would be the same in etc/, however we'd do it
10:14
client/share and client/share.distro? etc and etc.distro? they should be similar though
10:14
But I don't think that we'll have many common etc/ files, so unless we do find some, we could put them in examples/ till then
10:14
<knipwim>
sure, but we still get a lot of dirs in the tree
10:14
in /client and /server
10:15
<alkisg>
For share/, we only need one, so that will cover init-ltsp.d too
10:15
E.g. share/init-ltsp.d (common scripts there) and share/init-ltsp.d.Ubuntu
10:15
Sorry
10:15
share.Ubuntu/init-ltsp.d
10:16
So we'd only have different distro dirs for share, not for subfolders
10:17
But for /etc I don't know... e.g. if an ubuntu user wants to use xinetd, he could just use the example provided by fedora or gentoo
10:17
<knipwim>
i think i would rather see /share/common/init-ltsp.d and /share/Ubuntu/init-ltsp.d
10:17
<alkisg>
And even in Ubuntu, ltsp-server-standalone would use different etc/ files than ltsp-server-dnsmasq
10:17
OK, sure, no problem there
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10:18
<alkisg>
So for configuration files I'm not sure how much sense it has. Maybe an examples/common dir, and examples/distro dirs?
10:18
And packages can reuse the examples provided there
10:18
Currently ltsp-server in Ubuntu ships: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/80_ltsp-sound /etc/network/if-up.d/ltsp-keys ==> and the second one is not even needeed anymore
10:19
<knipwim>
you're probably right on configuration files not being shared throughout distro's
10:19
doc/examples/$tool would be better
10:19
<alkisg>
ltsp-client-core ships more: /etc/init/ltsp-client-core.conf /etc/kernel/postrm.d /etc/kernel/postinst.d /etc/init.d/ltsp-client-core /etc/kernel/postrm.d/ltsp-update-kernels /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ltsp-update-kernels
10:20
<knipwim>
like doc/examples/xinetd.d/nbdswapd and doc/examples/dnsmasq/dnsmasq.conf
10:20
<alkisg>
Right, as long as they're not completely distro-specific, when they'd go under examples/distro instead
10:21
To simplify packaging, maybe the $tool/ folder can be omitted
10:21
So as to copy everything under examples/common and everything under examples/$distro
10:21
<knipwim>
packagers wouldn't select all examples, just pick to appropriate ones
10:21
<alkisg>
Why not all common/ and $distro/ examples?
10:22
(with symlinks where appropriate)
10:22
<knipwim>
perhaps some distro's share the same tools
10:22
like gentoo and fedora could share dracut configs
10:22
<alkisg>
Derivatives like ubuntu can copy common/, debian/ and ubuntu/
10:22
Similar distros can use symlinks
10:23
<knipwim>
hehe, again the symlinks
10:23
<alkisg>
(same would be for /usr/share/ltsp, the share/ trunk folder)
10:23
There would only be a few symlinks in this case though
10:24
<knipwim>
ok, sound like plan then, doc/examples/common and doc/examples/$distro
10:25
<alkisg>
I'm no packager though, vagrantc is probably a better person to talk about this
10:25
<knipwim>
now figure out who uses what
10:25
<alkisg>
Yeah, that would be solved with symlinks
10:25
Now one would have to look at each distro packaging to see if it uses it
10:26
<knipwim>
i could do that for debian and ubuntu
10:26
but i've no idea about suse or fedora
10:26
<alkisg>
No complains at all from me :)
10:27
<knipwim>
or even if altlinux is using the latest upstream code
10:27
<alkisg>
Maybe a mail in the ltsp-developers list is good enough to get feedback, if no feedback comes then we're good to go :)
10:28
We could have dirs for bin and sbin too
10:31
<knipwim>
hmm, an sbin just for init-ltsp?
10:31
seems overkill
10:31
<alkisg>
/usr/sbin/inventory
10:31
/usr/sbin/jetpipe
10:31
/usr/sbin/ltsp-remoteappsd
10:31
/usr/sbin/nbd-client-proxy
10:31
/usr/sbin/nbd-proxy
10:32
<knipwim>
ah, usr sbin :)
10:33
<alkisg>
Maybe it would be better to assume that ltsp-trunk/client/ means <common>, so it would have a share/ subdir etc, and ltsp-trunk/client/$distro/ follows the exact same structure, overriding ltsp-trunk/client/
10:33
So the Ubuntu packaging for share/* would be:
10:33
client/share/*
10:33
client/Debian/share/*
10:33
client/Ubuntu/share/*
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10:35
<alkisg>
Or maybe even the distro dirs could be in ltsp-trunk/distro, and have client/ and server/ etc subdirs. Anyway my point is that it might be better to only have 1 distro specific dir per distro.
10:35
We'd easily know who maintains what then
10:35
And it'd probably be much easier for packaging
10:37
<knipwim>
agreed
10:37
but then i like the client/share/* client/Debian/share/* option best
10:37
ideally, everything in client should be common
10:38
so we can do client/k12linux/templates and client/k12linux/scripts
10:38
<alkisg>
client/template/k12linux/ => client/k21linux/template/, hehe that's what I was writing :D
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10:39
<knipwim>
great minds ... :)
10:40
<alkisg>
The dirs other than server/ and client/ don't seem to have much distro-specific code
10:40
So yeah, server/$distro and client/$distro dirs sound good
10:41
And other than those, server/* and client/* would be considered "common"
10:41
<knipwim>
shall i reply to your topic in the mailinglist
10:41
with a summary of this discussion
10:41
<alkisg>
Yup
10:42
You could even write it to the wiki first
10:42
<knipwim>
and wait a week or so before implementing it
10:42
<alkisg>
And mail the link
10:42
<knipwim>
good idea
10:42
<alkisg>
That way we can update the proposal when needed or when we have new ideas
10:46
http://wiki/source-layout (or SourceLayout) might be OK for the URL. We could even put that as a text file in trunk...
10:48
ltsp-trunk/server/doc/CodingStyle => similar to what we're saying now, those docs should be in common/* instead, as they're valid for both server and client
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12:21
<Hyperbyte>
Hey Gary!
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12:35
<knipwim>
alkisg: i would want a doc/examples/tools/xinetd.d/nbdwapd and a symlink to doc/examples/Gentoo/xinetd.d/nbdwapd for instance
12:35
to have a better distinction of total available tools and distro supporting them
12:35
erm
12:36
symlink to /server/Gentoo/doc/examples/xinetd.d/nbdswapd
12:36
the doc/examples/tools is common code
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14:24
<alkisg1>
(03:35:43 μμ) knipwim: to have a better distinction of total available tools and distro supporting them => my thought is, if it's common, it's supported everywhere, otherwise it should be in a distro dir
14:24
(in) common
14:26
xinetd runs on ubuntu too, it works with ltsp if someone manually configures it
14:26
The defaults that each distro ltsp packages use doesn't matter much, e.g. ltsp-server-standalone uses different tools from ltsp-server-dnsmasq on Ubuntu
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14:28
<alkisg>
knipwim: /client/share/xinitrc.d => does this go in /usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc.d/ on Gentoo?
14:29
Meh sorry I read "xinetd.d" :P
14:31
Looks good, send the mail :)
14:32
<knipwim>
nothing on the bins and sbins ?
14:32
or leave that for a later discussion :)
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14:34
<alkisg>
Let's make a small list of stuff that needs to be moved:
14:34
client/chroot-setup => in client/k12linux/chroot-setup
14:34
client/functions/$distro => in client/$distro/share/ltsp-client-vendor-functions
14:35
client/init-ltsp.d/$distro => client/$distro/init-ltsp.d
14:35
initramfs ==> maybe in client/debian/initramfs, if only debian/ubuntu use it?
14:36
client/initscripts/$distro => client/$distro/initscripts
14:36
client/initscripts/ltsp-core.upstart => client/ubuntu/initscripts
14:36
<knipwim>
yes on the initramfs
14:37
<alkisg>
client/rwtab.d => client/k12linux/rwtab.d/
14:38
client/screen.d => client/share/screen.d, and also for the others I forgot, init-ltsp.d and ltsp_config.d
14:38
And screen-session.d too
14:38
<knipwim>
client/scripts/k12linux/ => client/k12linux/scripts
14:38
client/template/k12linux/ => client/k12linux/template
14:38
<alkisg>
client/xinitrc.d => client/share/xinitrc.d
14:39
configure-x.sh => share/configure-x.sh
14:39
init-ltsp => sbin/init-ltsp ? TODO
14:39
kioskSession => share/kioskSession
14:39
ltsp-client-common-functions, ltsp-client-functions => client/share/
14:40
<knipwim>
screen_session => share/screen_session
14:40
<alkisg>
ltsp_config => lib/ltsp_config ? TODO
14:40
<knipwim>
update-kernels => share/update-kernels
14:40
<alkisg>
nbd-disconnect => share/nbd-disconnect
14:42
<knipwim>
screen-x-common => share/screen-x-common
14:42
<alkisg>
(05:40:29 μμ) alkisg: ltsp_config => lib/ltsp_config ? ==> don't know why that's also symlinked in lib, sorry, it should go in share/
14:43
Ubuntu has some symlinks in /usr/lib/ltsp, dunno why, we can probably drop them
14:43
<knipwim>
i think that was the old location
14:44
there are a couple of scripts also loooking in /usr/lib/ltsp, for backward compatability
14:45
<alkisg>
bin/ makes no sense, the binaries that go there are all over the place
14:45
So I withdraw my proposal about it :)
14:46
We may put init-ltsp to scripts/ if we want
14:46
Or leave it as is
14:46
<knipwim>
and jetpipe and getltscfg
14:49
<alkisg>
Why aren't localapps in client/ ?
14:49
And nbd-proxy in client/Ubuntu/nbd-proxy
14:51
I think the best way to represent all that is... to clone the branch and do the renames and make a merge request
14:51
One can navigate to see the final structure, and there's no overhead for us to write the same things twice when the branch is merged, it's just 1 command
14:52
And one can look at the diff for the moves
14:52* knipwim likes
14:53
<knipwim>
and i can do this
14:53
<alkisg>
Cool
14:54
vagrantc mentioned that he liked the shared/ idea, so extending it wouldn't make him object, I presume
14:55
<knipwim>
shall i do the client/localapps and client/Ubuntu/nbd-proxy as well
14:55
?
14:55
<alkisg>
I'd vote yes
14:56
<knipwim>
hehe :)
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15:28
<knipwim>
alkisg: is ltsp-core.upstart only for ubuntu? or can i put it in the debian dir
15:28
same for nbdproxy
15:29
<alkisg>
knipwim: http://packages.debian.org/sid/i386/ltsp-client-core/filelist
15:29
Not there
15:31
(vs http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/i386/ltsp-client-core/filelist ==> /etc/init/ltsp-client-core.conf)
15:31
nbd-proxy is in debian, so I'd put it in Debian/, yeah
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15:52
<knipwim>
alkisg vagrantc : https://code.launchpad.net/~wimmuskee/ltsp/ltsp-restructure-the-tree
15:52
vagrantc: alkisg and i just discussed these changes
15:59
<vagrantc>
knipwim: so the idea is that share goes into /usr/share/ltsp, basically?
15:59
(and other dirs go similarly)
15:59
might bee worth making upstream makefiles
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16:05
<vagrantc>
knipwim: no real objection.
16:06
i presume that's only the beginning?
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16:10
<alkisg>
Is anyone still using ltsp-bindmounts? Gentoo?
16:11
Thanks knipwim looks good to me
16:13
vagrantc: I guess the server/ dir also needs some restructuring
16:14
But other than that, that's pretty much it... afaik
16:16
<vagrantc>
we've made so many changes that assume a writeable /, i wonder if it would even be feasible to try ltsp-bindmounts
16:17
i think i don't even ship it in debian's packages anymore
16:18
oh, i guess i do ship it
16:19
<alkisg>
I think gentoo's still using it...
16:20
<vagrantc>
knipwim: i'd go ahead and merge your branch changes in
16:20
<alkisg>
I think we should wait for the server/ dir too
16:20
E.g. /server/doc/CodingStyle goes in common/ or in common/docs
16:21
And functions/$distro in $distro/share/*
16:23
<vagrantc>
that's what i meant when i said i presumed there were more changes
16:24
<alkisg>
Yeah we only discussed the client/ dir so far, but the server/ dir needs similar changes
16:24
config/$distro => $distro/config
16:25
plugins => share/plugins
16:25
scripts/$distro => $distro/scripts
16:28
<vagrantc>
will this be ltsp 5.4.x? :)
16:28
not really code changes, but patches for 5.3.x aren't going to apply anymore
16:29* vagrantc finds the ltsp-*-common symlinks to be silly
16:30
<alkisg>
An ltsp-common package would solve that problem, but it sounds like overkill...
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16:30* vagrantc would also like to find an excuse to put ltsp-localapps into it's own package
16:30
<alkisg>
Does the code work without that? Don't other parts rely on localapps?
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16:31
<vagrantc>
i frequently have application servers that do not have LTSP installed.
16:31
i.e. ldm-server is installed, ltsp-server is not.
16:31
localapps still work fine- it's just a call to xprop ... it's mostly handledn client side
16:32
<alkisg>
X99-ltsp-logout-action => that shouldn't be in localapps, should it?
16:33
<vagrantc>
that is weird.
16:34
<alkisg>
And fat clients wouldn't work with localapps disabled, due to user accounts handling...
16:34
<vagrantc>
and it's my fault ...
16:34
mostly, i want the server-side localapps functionality split into a separate package ... but it might not be worth it.
16:35
probably just shunted the ldm-rc.d in there because it needed to go there, but it really probably belongs in client/share/ldm/rc.d/
16:36
<alkisg>
That sounds better
16:38
<vagrantc>
if upstream had a Makefile to handle the ltsp-common-functions -> ltsp-server-common-functions/ltsp-client-common-functions magic, the stupid symlinks could go away
16:40* vagrantc suspects ltsp-trunk/TODO can go away
16:41
<knipwim>
alkisg: gentoo doesn't use ltsp-bindmounts
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16:49
<vagrantc>
probably should kill it then
16:49* vagrantc doesn't look back
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17:05
<alkisg>
TODO can go in a wiki roadmap page
17:10
Till now, ltsp-update-image had a --options parameter, which wrote the info to $chroot/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf, then ran `chroot $chroot update-kernels`, which generated boot/pxelinux.cfg/default, and then it ran ltsp-update-kernels to copy that file into TFTP.
17:10
I think I'll kill that, while it's convinient to be able to do it with a single parameter, it's so messed up that noone knows how to use it
17:11
For now I think I'll go with update-kernels generating a proper config. The sysadmin will be responsible to put the info in $chroot/etc/update-kernels.conf,
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17:12
<alkisg>
and for the future, ltsp-server will ship a pxelinux-menus script that will check the chroot and generate appropriate sections (or include files) in the master pxelinux.cfg/default
17:12
So only small changes for now
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17:55
<vagrantc>
hm.
18:03
knipwim: does gentoo publish versions of ltsp, ldm and ltspfs, or do users always build right from bzr?
18:11
just wondering if it'd be useful to monitor gentoo's uploaded versions for me.
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18:48
<knipwim>
vagrantc: gentoo builds versions from bzr, based on the tags
18:55
the package files are uploaded here: http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/ltsp.git;a=summary
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19:17
<vagrantc>
knipwim: ok, well, that probably won't be a useful view to poll for new versions, then. no worries.
19:20
<alkisg>
knipwim: since vagrantc also agrees, I think there's no need to wait a whole week for feedback, a couple of days would be fine (so that we start the ltsp-server-dnsmasq packaging after that commit)
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19:24
<vagrantc>
knipwim: yes, go for the restructure
19:24
sooner is better, as i need to have it all sorted out by end of may
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19:27
<knipwim>
okay, i can get some server stuff done tonight
19:28
but tomorrow is my last day being able to work on it till next weekend
19:29
so it has to be done tomorrow, or next weekend
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19:44
<alkisg>
knipwim: commit whatever you have tomorrow, and we can continue if there are any things left
19:44
<knipwim>
kk
19:44
i'm still not fully confident the tool examples shouldn't go in a generic tool dir
19:45
what if no distro uses the tool configs anymore
19:45
couldn't they still be useful for other distro's?
19:46
<alkisg>
If configuration examples are useful, they should be there in case some user needs them, not in case some distro needs them
19:46
E.g. a dnsmasq config is there now, even if no distro uses dnsmasq in its ltsp packaging
19:46
So, xinetd configuration should be in "common", even if debian and ubuntu don't use it
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