IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 16 February 2015   (all times are UTC)

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07:07
<FrozenZia>
work_alkisg: got any time to help me troubleshoot this tftp problem (needing to restart dnsmasq or getting "forbidden directory" error)
07:07
Seems that changing the file/directory permissions has not helped at all.
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08:44
<alkisg>
FrozenZia: it's not really ltsp related and it seems specific to your setup, so I don't think it's worth much time troubleshooting it...
08:44
You can try enabling the dnsmasq dhcp/tftp logs, or you can just put a delay in the service etc... you can also try asking in #ubuntu
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09:18
<Henri>
Good day everyone
09:20
<alkisg>
Hello
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09:29
<Henri>
May I please ask a quick couple of questions?
09:31
I would like to find out whether LTSP works with zero-clients, such as the HP t200, or if support for zero-clients is planned. Ty
09:37
<alkisg>
If they can boot linux from usb, they can run ltsp too
09:37
If not, nope
09:37* alkisg guesses "not"
09:42
<FrozenZia>
alkisg: thanks for you help!
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09:58
<Henri>
Thanks for that. The zero-clients don't have their own RAM, etc, so they wouldn't be able to boot it from flash. Their running is entirely based on the server
09:58
<alkisg>
Henri: then ltsp won't ever support them
09:59
ltsp needs linux on the client
09:59
<Henri>
I see
09:59
<alkisg>
Linux might support them on the server-side, dunno. But ltsp won't.
10:00
<Henri>
The main solution that I've found that runs these sort of clients is Userful Multiplatform and Desktop
10:00
<alkisg>
Do you already have those, or are you planning to buy them?
10:00
<Henri>
I was wondering if LTSP is similar
10:00
Already have them
10:00
<alkisg>
No, ltsp isn't "multiseat", it's "remote booting"
10:00
<Henri>
I see
10:01
thank you for the info
10:01
<alkisg>
You're welcome
10:01
I think many people have ditched userful for ltsp, though...
10:01
<Henri>
I'm just looking around at competitive offerings
10:01
<alkisg>
(ditching the existing clients in the process)
10:01
<Henri>
why would that be?
10:02
<alkisg>
Because usual browsing would need e.g. 2.5 gbps per client, so thin/zero clients won't ever work really well
10:02
So the trend is to go for diskless fat clients instead
10:02
!fatclients
10:02
<ltsp`>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
10:02
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp
10:02
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
10:05
<Henri>
I see
10:06
Thus far, I have been very impressed with the performance... at least vs NComputing thin-clients, which are the popular solution in my parts
10:09
<alkisg>
!learn 4k Imagine a 4k display updated at 60 fps. It needs 3840×2160×32×60 bits per second, i.e. 16 gbps. Normal HD displays need 4 gbps. Thin clients will have much trouble getting all that through the local network...
10:09
<ltsp`>
(learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
10:09
<Henri>
alright, well I'll keep researching. Thanks again for all the help and information & I wish you a good day and week :)
10:09
<alkisg>
!learn 4k as Imagine a 4k display updated at 60 fps. It needs 3840×2160×32×60 bits per second, i.e. 16 gbps. Normal HD displays need 4 gbps. Thin clients will have much trouble getting all that through the local network...
10:09
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
10:09
<alkisg>
When servers will be able to send 16 gbps *per client*, thin clients will have a real future again :D
10:10
Good day to you too
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18:19
<klausade>
has anyone here run the oecd pisa test from linux machines? I hear they distribute the pisa tests on a usb-stick, and that it's an exe-file. One of my linux schools has been singled out this year for the test.
18:20
<alkisg>
Here we told them that we could find no school with windows in order to run the pisa test :D
18:21
<klausade>
excelent!
18:26
I see that in 2009, they actually run linux together with the test itself from a usbstick.
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18:32
<gbti>
hello, I'm having problem to connect to the native xfreerdp on ltsp into windows 8, any tips?
18:33
s/to the native/with the native/
18:33
<geekgirlsc>
I have an LTSP setup with 24 FAT clients. They are kiosks that only open 1 web page. I did this with .xsession in the home directories. It just launches chromium to the right address (with no desktop). The clients work great for a few hours then they have a NBD disconnect? and then lots of scrolling squashfs errors after that. I can pysically power one off then power it back up and it will be fine...
18:33
<alkisg>
gbti: are you trying to connect from xfreerdp + windows 8, to an ltsp server?
18:34
<gbti>
alkisg: no. I'm setting SCREEN_06= on lts.conf using xfreerdp pointing to windows 8
18:35
<alkisg>
gbti: did it use to work, and then stopped, or you haven't yet managed to get it going/
18:35
?
18:35
geekgirlsc: it sounds like a networking problem, are you thinking that nbd might be the one to blame?
18:36
You could try NFS if so, but normally NBD runs fine for days...
18:36
It does have problems with reconnections though
18:38
<geekgirlsc>
Im not certain. Can I set NBD to reboot when there is a disconnect? This is my first setup
18:39
<alkisg>
Do all the clients have the same problem, or just one or a few ones?
18:39
I.e. is it a server-side disconnection that affects all clients, or not?
18:40
<geekgirlsc>
About half I would say... and quiet randomly... I ahve them spread out across the county on our LAN coming from one central LTSP server... so it could be connection drops...
18:40
<alkisg>
xnbd does support "reboot upon disconnect", while plain nbd doesn't support it, you'd need some custom scripting there
18:40
If you have connection drops, then don't use nbd, it's not that stable
18:41
Switch to nfs, or even squashfs over nfs
18:41
Or, use xnbd-client, which supports caching and reconnects and is more stable, but you'll need scripting there too
18:41
<geekgirlsc>
ok... so I should find some documentation on switching to xndb?
18:41
<alkisg>
If you're not that experienced, go for nfs or squahsfs over nfs
18:42
I don't think you'll find documentation for "xnbd in ltsp", you'd have to do it yourself after reading about xnbd and digging through the ltsp sources, which would be rather difficult if you're not experienced
18:43
<gbti>
alkisg: it never worked before, just worked with W2003
18:43
<geekgirlsc>
I am not experienced YET. This is my first LTSP rodeo... Ok Ill see if I can get changed over to nfs for starters
18:43
<alkisg>
gbti: try SCREEN_06=xterm. From that xterm, find an xfreerdp command that works. *then* try putting that command in SCREEN_06
18:43
<geekgirlsc>
THank you for your advice
18:43
<alkisg>
geekgirlsc: distro/version?
18:44
<geekgirlsc>
ubuntu 14.04
18:44
<alkisg>
Normal fat clients, or ltsp-pnp/?
18:44
I.e. do you have a chroot?
18:44
<geekgirlsc>
FAT clients
18:45
yes have chroot
18:45
<alkisg>
OK I suppose not ltsp-pnp (which also is about fat clients)
18:45
Just edit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and put NFS first, for a start,
18:45
<gbti>
alkisg: the thing is, the sever is 3.000 KM away :) I was hoping that someone got it already working. Thank you
18:46
<alkisg>
and also install nfs-kernel-server, and put /opt/ltsp/i386 into /etc/exports
18:46
<geekgirlsc>
ok trying that now
18:47
<alkisg>
gbti: it might be specific to your setup, i haven't heard any specific issues with windows 8 yet... not that I'm using xfreerdp, but others here do
18:47
<gbti>
allright, I will give it a try. thanks again!
18:53
alkisg: what are the ltsp shell credentials?
18:53
<alkisg>
gbti: rephrase, I didn't get that
18:54
SCREEN_02=xterm shouldn't ask for any credentials
18:54
No default passwords anywhere for ltsp
18:54
<gbti>
ok
18:56
I was using 'shell'
18:56
<alkisg>
You won't be able to run xfreerdp without X, you need "xterm" instead
18:56
But "shell" also doesn't ask for credentials
19:00
<gbti>
shell was asking for login, like regular login screen. xterm did not.
19:00
<geekgirlsc>
alkisg: copy the whole i386 folder in /etc/exports? SO it looks like /etc/exports/i386 when I am done?
19:01
<alkisg>
No no /etc/exports is a file, it will appear after you install nfs-kernel-server
19:01
You just need to put 1 line there to enable exporting that dir via nfs
19:01
/opt/ltsp *(ro,no_root_squash,async,no_subtree_check)
19:02
<geekgirlsc>
OOOOOH gotya... ok.... ;)
19:02
<alkisg>
gbti: if shell was asking for a login, something went wrong there
19:02
Anyway
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20:22* alkisg waves to vagrantc
20:22
<alkisg>
How about implementing an `ltsp-config nfs`?
20:22
...that installs nfs-kernel-server and updates /etc/exports?
20:24
<geekgirlsc>
alkisg: Now I am getting a bunch of permission denied notices from init-ltsp and an eventual black screen with a blinking cursor.... should I change it to rw instead of ro?
20:24
<alkisg>
No
20:24
It's supposed to do an overlay of tmpfs over the nfs-ro mount
20:25
geekgirlsc: what's the pxelinux.cfg/default boot line now like?
20:25
(the append line)
20:26
vagrantc: or maybe, ltsp-config nfs-root and nfs-home and nfs-squashfs (or nfs-images)?
20:27
Or nfs3-*, and nfs4-*...
20:27* alkisg doesn't know which combinations are used there
20:27
<geekgirlsc>
top lines say: default ltsp-NFS
20:27
2nd line ontimeout ltsp-NFS
20:27
I didnt change anything else in the file...
20:28
<alkisg>
OK so I imagine something like: append ro initrd=initrd.img-3.13.0-45-generic init=/sbin/init-ltsp quiet splash root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp boot=nfs
20:28
Did you restart nfs-kernel-server after updating /etc/exports?
20:29
<geekgirlsc>
yes
20:29
<alkisg>
Are you able to mount /opt/ltsp from some other pc via nfs?
20:29
What permission-denied notices, what do they say?
20:29
To better see the messages, you might want to remove "quiet splash" from pxelinux.cfg/default,
20:30
...and maybe replace them with "ltsp.break=50-fstab" in order to get a break inside init-ltsp...
20:33
<geekgirlsc>
sbin/init-ltsp: 15: /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d/09-hostname: cannot create /etc/hostname: Permission denied is the 1st one
20:34
<alkisg>
Do you have an initramfs shell now there?
20:34
If so, what's the output of `cat /proc/cmdline`?
20:35
And, lsmod | grep overlayfs
20:35
(you said ubuntu 14.04, right?)
20:35
<geekgirlsc>
yes
20:36
lsmod | grep overlayfs give me nothing :)
20:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think i did crude ltsp-config nfs or something already
20:37
<alkisg>
Try: modprobe overlayfs; lsmod | grep overlayfs
20:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: but it just configured /etc/exports
20:37
<alkisg>
vagrantc: /me checks...
20:38
<vagrantc>
alkisg: getting the squashfs image support working would be nice.
20:38
<alkisg>
We'd need some special syntax there?
20:38
<vagrantc>
shouldn't be too hard, actually ... just need to add to update-kenrel.sconf with different boot arg.
20:40
<geekgirlsc>
modprobe overlayfs; lsmod | grep overlayfs gave me this output:
20:40
overlayfs 27158 0
20:40* vagrantc wishes that support was available in jessie, but that's too many changes for this point in the release cycle
20:41
<alkisg>
geekgirlsc: try to paste the command line here, with the cat /proc/cmdline command that i said
20:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: there's still a stupid hack needed for initramfs-tools to have /opt/ltsp/images/sbin/init-ltsp be an executable file
20:42
or to reimplement the NFS mounting
20:42
alkisg: i've never looked at NFSv4 support...
20:43
<alkisg>
vagrantc: did we have any issues with systemd wanting to be pid1, and us using a different init?
20:43
nfs4 needs a lot of `mount --bind`, I can't say I like it... :-
20:43
And I had a lot of lockd issues in Ubuntu for both nfs3 and nfs4
20:44
<vagrantc>
alkisg: only a couple minor issues with systemd ... was a fairly painless transition ... needed to change ltspfs starting from udev differently
20:44
<alkisg>
Nice!
20:52
<geekgirlsc>
Just when I think Im getting it.... I come in here and feel like a moron. :) Where can I learn all about NFS, NBD and anything else I can use to get LTSP working on a network that appears to disconnect on occasion? How did you guys learn? Trial and error?
20:54
<alkisg>
Reading (or writing) the sources, mostly...
21:02
<vagrantc>
geekgirlsc: trial and error mostly
21:03
<geekgirlsc>
@vagrantc thats where I am at now. Lots of trial and error. ;)
21:05
THere is a script on this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToSetupLTSPDevelEnvironment that says it will change it to NFS from NBD but Im a little scare to try iy since I dont know what it is doing... I wont be able to "undo it"
21:08
<alkisg>
geekgirlsc: why don't you just give the feedback I asked instead? :)
21:09
<geekgirlsc>
modprobe overlayfs; lsmod | grep overlayfs gave me this output:
21:09
overlayfs 27158 0
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21:10
<alkisg>
geekgirlsc: no, the one about /proc/cmdline from the initramfs
21:10
(I asked that twice above...)
21:11
<geekgirlsc>
Sorry I missed that
21:11
BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.13.0-45-generic root=UUID=dc07f679-103d-4fba-86f8-4565d0b8d039 ro quiet splash vt.handoff=7
21:11
<alkisg>
That's not the client though, is it?
21:11
That's the server...
21:12
<geekgirlsc>
oooh yes you are right... go into chroot first?
21:12
<alkisg>
No, do that from the client initramfs prompt
21:12
From the client itself (you won't be able to copy/paste though...)
21:14* vagrantc wonders if we shouldn't ship netcat in the initramfs and a couple troubleshooting helper scripts
21:14
<vagrantc>
kind of like ltsp-info from the initramfs
21:15
<geekgirlsc>
Im nto actually getting a prompt... after the permission errors, I am just getting a blinking cursor. Ctrl-C no helpy either
21:15
<alkisg>
You didn't get a prompt with ltsp.break=50-fstab?
21:16
The problem you're having is that overlayfs doesn't get loaded for you
21:17
Sounds like a bug... But don't follow the https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToSetupLTSPDevelEnvironment page, it doesn't apply to your case, it'll just make things worse
21:17
<geekgirlsc>
no but standby. I think I put it under the wrong heading
21:18
<alkisg>
You can also try with break=bottom, that gets triggered before init-ltsp
21:18
You'll surely get a prompt there, and you'll be able to check why overlayfs isn't loaded
21:25
<geekgirlsc>
Ok I should be putting that under the label that says LABEL LTSP-NFS right? "break=bottom" in replace of "quiet splash"
21:26
I thought that was going to give me a prompt but it is stuck at "restoring resolver state"
21:28
<alkisg>
label ltsp-NFS, menu ..., kernel ...
21:28
append ro initrd=initrd.img-3.13.0-45-generic init=/sbin/init-ltsp break=bottom root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp boot=nfs
21:29
That's supposed to give you a prompt
21:29
<geekgirlsc>
YES that is what I have... no prompt.. :(
21:29
<alkisg>
Other options are: (top, modules, premount, mount, mountroot, bottom, init)
21:29
<vagrantc>
in update-kernels.conf, or in pxelinux.cfg/default ?
21:29
<alkisg>
So you can also try with e.g. break=top to verify that you did that correctly
21:30
Directly in pxelinux.cfg/default, for starters...
21:30
<geekgirlsc>
i changed it in pxelinux.cfg/default
21:31
Ok I will try break=top
21:34
"break=bottom" works. I accidently put "break-bottom". output of cat /proc/cmdline is coming in next text
21:36
<alkisg>
At break=bottom, did you see any warnings, possibly about overlayfs etc?
21:36
Is overlayfs loaded? lsmod | grep overlayfs
21:37
<geekgirlsc>
ro initrd.img-3.13.0-45-generic init=/sbin/init-ltsp break=bottom root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp boot=nfs BOOT_IMAGE=vmlinuz-3.13.0-45-generic BOOTIF=01-00-80-64-87-46-7F
21:39
its already scrolled past for me to see (cause I typed help) but I can reboot. lsmod command says it is not found.
21:39
<alkisg>
and modprobe overlayfs, does it work there?
21:39
lsmod not found?
21:39
whoah
21:43
Maybe you typed i instead of L ?
21:43
<geekgirlsc>
yeah..... modprobe overlayfs doesnt give me any output but no errors
21:44
no i typed L.... I will try again.
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21:48
<geekgirlsc>
test
21:49
/bin/sh LSMOD not found
21:51
i tried to do a "locate lsmod" but locate appears to not be found either...
21:52
<alkisg>
geekgirlsc: retry with break=init
21:52
Instead of lsmod, use this: grep overlayfs /proc/filesystems
21:52
reboot with break=init first...
21:53
Also check for errors when the client starts and breaks there
21:54
At "break=init", do these:
21:54
1) check for errors
21:54
2) chroot /root
21:54
mount | grep overlayfs
21:55
It should show an overlayfs mount
21:56
<geekgirlsc>
ok did break=init. back at prompt. Did not see any errors
21:57
<alkisg>
chroot /root
21:57
cat /proc/mounts
21:57
last 3 lines are supposed to be nfs, tmpfs, overlayfs
21:59
<geekgirlsc>
chroot /root gives error: bash: cannot set terminal process group (-1) inappropriate ioctl for device
21:59
<alkisg>
That's ok
21:59
Go on with `cat /proc/mounts`
21:59
<geekgirlsc>
bash: no job control in this shell
21:59
<alkisg>
Do you see tmpfs and overlayfs there?
22:00
<geekgirlsc>
YES
22:00
<alkisg>
Try this: touch hello
22:00
Did it work, or did it say access denied?
22:00
<geekgirlsc>
tmpfs /cow tmpfs rw.relatime,mode=755 0 0
22:01
No it worked I havent gotten any access denied yet
22:01
<alkisg>
Well, I see no issues then. Type exit twice to resume boot
22:04
<geekgirlsc>
ok typed exit twice, it continued to try to boot. Got the permission errors and now blinking cursor again... the last line says "stopping cpu interrupts balancing daemon". (that line wasnt there originally) thats new
22:05
<alkisg>
Replace break=init with ltsp.break=04-server
22:05
Reboot. Do you get a shell? If yes, try "touch /hello" there. Does it work?
22:09
<geekgirlsc>
used break=init, rebooted, got shell, touch hello gives me no errors. just returns me back to the prompt.
22:09
used ltsp.break=04-server I meant
22:14
<alkisg>
So, overlayfs works fine, yet you're still getting permission errors?
22:15
What are those errors saying exactly? Type exit to continue booting...
22:15
To see more break points, run `ls /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d/` in your server
22:16
Maybe you can pinpoint the permission by using a different ltsp.break= parameter
22:16
It's kinda late here though, /me needs to go...
22:16* alkisg waves goodnight
22:17
<geekgirlsc>
goodnight thanks for your help. Maybe more luck this week.
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