IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 22 April 2016   (all times are UTC)

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04:44
<alkisg>
Good morning all
04:45
laro: yes it's quite possible that UEFI is to blame, if you installed via CSM on a GPT disk without preparation
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08:08
<rac_>
Good afternoon,
08:08
anyone can help me ?
08:09
lts.conf ubuntu 16.04, LDM_SESSION="gnome-fallback" not respone,
08:09
error messages "gnome-session-fallback not found
08:10
<alkisg>
rac_: do you have gnome-flashback, or are you using mate?
08:12
<rac_>
I use a gnome-flashback,
08:12
<alkisg>
rac_: ls /usr/share/xsessions
08:12
What's the output?
08:16
<rac_>
gnome-flashback-compiz.desktop ubuntu.desktop gnome-flashback-metacity.desktop
08:17
I've tried to change the lts.conf DM_SESSION="gnome-flashback"
08:18
the client blank not respone
08:18
<alkisg>
Put LDM_SESSION="gnome-flashback-metacity"
08:19
<rac_>
ok, i will try,
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08:32
<rac_>
alkisg: a good solution, thank you very much
08:32
You are very helpful,
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15:07
<Julienf>
Hello!
15:07
Hey Alkisg I've installed Ubuntu Mate 16.04 and followed the steps of this link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
15:08
I've got everything working out of the box, it's amazing
15:08
but my first guess is that it started as a FAT client by default, is that normal ?
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15:23
<Julienf>
Ooops, after a simple reboot I know have a tftp timeout issue... any idea ?
15:30
I now have*
15:35
<vagrantc>
make sure your tftp server is running ... i've seen tftpd-hpa fail to start randomly ...
15:35
or are you using dnsmasq?
15:35* vagrantc really ought to push for dnsmasq as the preferred option for Debian stretch release...
15:37
<Julienf>
I'm using dnsmasq with my router as the DHCP
15:37
let me check tftp
15:38
I'm using dnsmasq with my router as the DHCP
15:38
<vagrantc>
is dnsmasq telling it which server to boot from? by default, it tells the clients to boot from the dnsmasq server
15:39
<Julienf>
mmm tftpd-hpa.service not found
15:39
<vagrantc>
dnsmasq can function as a tftp server
15:40
one very common problem if your DHCP is not your LTSP server is the client will try to boot from the DHCP server, not the LTSP server, unless you've configured your DHCP server to tell it to boot from the LTSP server.
15:41
<Julienf>
well on the PXEboot screen I can see the server's IP address to be correct
15:41
I've restarted dnsmasq
15:41
let me try
15:42
hmmm no luck, the Boot server IP is correct
15:42
but tftp is not locating the boot images...
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15:42
<vagrantc>
what tftp server are you using on the LTSP server?
15:43
<Julienf>
well I'm not really sure of which one is being used
15:43
here is what I installed
15:43
apt-get --yes --install-recommends install dnsmasq ltsp-server-standalone ltsp-client ldm-ubuntu-theme
15:44
<vagrantc>
probably dnsmasq ... have you configured dnsmasq to be a tftp server? is dnsmasq running?
15:44
look in /etc/dnsmasq.conf and /etc/dnsmasq.d/*
15:45
<Julienf>
the line enable-tftp is commented in the dnsmasq.conf
15:45
but then the question is how come it worked before I rebooted the ltsp server ?
15:46
<vagrantc>
are there any /etc/dnsmasq.d/*.conf files?
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15:46
<Julienf>
yes a ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf
15:47
<vagrantc>
probably ran ltsp-config dnsmasq at some point...
15:47
is enable-tftp set in there?
15:47
<Julienf>
yup
15:47
<vagrantc>
and then, is dnsmasq running?
15:47
<Julienf>
installation step of this page
15:47
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
15:48
first answer, yes enable-tftp is uncommented in the conf file
15:49
is dnsmasq running ? I restarted it with the service dnsmasq restart command
15:49
the terminal returns immediatly with no acknowledgement
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15:50
<Julienf>
I'm not sure this answers your question
15:50
<vagrantc>
pgrep -l -a -f dnsmasq
15:50
or: service dnsmasq status
15:52
<Julienf>
according to the service status comment dnsmasq is running
15:52
according to pgrep, I get a pid
15:53
I'm rechecking the main conf file for dnsmasq
15:53
the conf-dir=/etc/dnsmasq.d line is commented
15:54
<vagrantc>
that's odd.
15:54
<Julienf>
isn't it...
15:54
I'm restarting the service after uncommenting the line including .conf files in this directory
15:55
<vagrantc>
or not... hmmm.
15:56
<Julienf>
You have something in mind ?
15:56
what I think is odd is that it worked perfectly before I rebooted
15:56
<vagrantc>
what version of dnsmasq do you have installeD?
15:57
<Julienf>
and I just rebooted because epoptes was rejecting my user from running it (I had to restart so the user was properly added to the group)
15:57
dnsmasq verion 2.75
15:57
<vagrantc>
ok, it's normal for those lines to be commented out ... maybe they're enabled by default now.
15:58
<Julienf>
how can I know if the conf files is loaded in dnsmasq ?
15:59
<vagrantc>
check /var/log/syslog
15:59
look at the output of: pgrep -l -a -f dnsmasq
16:00
looks like /etc/default/dnsmasq is configured to enable /etc/dnsmasq.d/ reading in it's commandline arguments
16:00
a little confusing that it's also an option listed in /etc/dnsmasq.conf ...
16:02
<Julienf>
ohh wait
16:02
it seems I have two pid from pgrep
16:02
<vagrantc>
"pgrep -l -a -f dnsmasq" should have a line with "-7 /etc/dnsmasq.d/...."
16:03
<Julienf>
it does for the second pid
16:03
I dunno if it's normal but both PIDs reference the same bin
16:03* vagrantc forgets
16:03* vagrantc boots up some ltsp servers to check
16:05
<vagrantc>
oh, not using dnsmasq on these servers...
16:06
<Julienf>
Ok I tried to stop the dnsmasq service
16:06
the second PID is gone
16:06
but the first one (without the "-7 /etc/dnsmasq.d/" line in it) stays alive
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16:07
<Julienf>
this one seems to load its configuration from /etc/NetworkManager/dnsmasq.d
16:07
<vagrantc>
ah, networkmangler strikes again
16:07
!networkmanager
16:07
<ltsp`>
Error: "networkmanager" is not a valid command.
16:07
<vagrantc>
!nm
16:07
<ltsp`>
Error: "nm" is not a valid command.
16:07
<vagrantc>
hrm.
16:07
alkisg might know more about weather that still needs to be disabled or not
16:08
<Julienf>
do you suggest I try to stop the NetworkManager service ?
16:08
<vagrantc>
well, that will most likely bring down your networking ...
16:08
<Julienf>
ahhh :-)
16:08
then let's keep this one happy
16:09
<vagrantc>
this is on ubuntu 16.04 ?
16:09
i'm not sure what the recommended network configuration on ubuntu for LTSP is these days...
16:10
i've been experimenting with using network-manager on debian, but it seems really buggy compared to just using ifupdown.
16:10
since an LTSP server should generally be statically configured networking, network-manager might be overkill ...
16:10
<Julienf>
yes I'm on ubuntu mate 16.04 64 bits
16:10
I see
16:11
and yes, my ltsp server is being assigned it's IP by the router
16:11* vagrantc attempts to summon alkisg
16:11
<Julienf>
I've allocated its IP so it doesn't change
16:11
<vagrantc>
or anyone who actually uses ubuntu :)
16:14
<Julienf>
I'm thinking that if I uncomment the config line in the dnsmasq conf file
16:14
then maybe networkmanager will run dnsmasq with the right conf file
16:14
and it will work properly
16:14
it's a theory though
16:14
let me give it a try
16:18
well I actually have two pids of dnsmasq at startup...
16:21
ok I think I nailed it
16:21
at boot two dnsmasq services are running
16:21
one spawned by network manager which takes its configuration from it's own files
16:21
and one which is the dnsmasq service itself
16:21* alkisg got summoned...
16:21
<Julienf>
for a certain reason at reboot the Network Manager service has priority
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16:22
<Julienf>
if I just restart dnsmasq
16:22
<alkisg>
Julienf: the nm-spawned dnsmasq should have been disabled by the ltsp-pnp page instructions
16:22
<Julienf>
the new service gets the priority and it then works
16:22
well I'm quite sure I've followed all the steps
16:22
<alkisg>
What's the output of this? dmesg | grep Break
16:22
Do you see any lines there?
16:23
<Julienf>
yes, it returns that it will break the nbd-client.service/start
16:24
actually that it's been Breaking ordering cycle by deleting job nbd-client.service/start to be precise
16:24
<alkisg>
OK, run this: sudo dpkg-divert --rename --divert /etc/nbd-client.init /etc/init.d/nbd-client
16:24
Then undo everything you've done to correct the issue, if you did anything,
16:24
and reboot the server
16:25
<Julienf>
all I did was to uncomment a line in the dnsmasq.conf file, I'll recomment it
16:26
<alkisg>
After it reboots, check that ping 8.8.8.8 works, and that there's only one dnsmasq running, and that dmesg | grep Break returns nothing
16:26
<Julienf>
ok rebooting now
16:27
but alkisg to which section of this page (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp) do you refer to when you say that the NetworkManager dnsmasq should be disabled ?
16:28
<alkisg>
Paragraph dns issues, solution #1 of 2
16:28
<Julienf>
well that's what confused me
16:28
I followed solution 2
16:28
and I though it was either 1 or 2
16:29
<alkisg>
OK then you would have 2 dnsmasq instances running
16:29
<Julienf>
yes that's the case
16:29
now dmesg returns nothing
16:29
<alkisg>
But in my experience dnsmasq sometimes doesn't like not binding 0.0.0.0
16:29
<Julienf>
but I still have two PIDs for dnsmasq
16:29
<alkisg>
So if it's the same to you, follow solution one instead
16:29
If you want to keep solution 2, np we can still troubleshoot it if it needs troubleshooting
16:31
I.e. check if it works now
16:32
<Julienf>
I'm finding this: Stop NetworkManager running it's own Dnsmasq $ sudo cp /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf.pkg $ sudo cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf \ | sed -e 's/dns=dnsmasq/#dns=dnsmasq/' \ > /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf $ sudo restart network-manager
16:33
do you think that can work ?
16:33
<alkisg>
Are you talking about something outside the ltsp-pnp page?
16:33
<Julienf>
yes
16:33
<alkisg>
If so, please don't do it, no
16:33
<Julienf>
ok
16:33
because at reboot the tftp time out
16:34
but when I restart dnsmasq it works immediately
16:34
<alkisg>
Does it still timeout?
16:34
<Julienf>
yes it does
16:34
and my guess is because two instances of dnsmasq are running
16:34
<alkisg>
OK. Then solution #2 is still problematic due to another dnsmasq bug
16:34
So, follow solution #1 instead
16:34
<Julienf>
one from NetworkManager that doesn't contain the right configuration but has priority at reboot
16:35
another one from dnsmasq alone that is correct but doesn't have priority
16:35
<alkisg>
I mention the bug report at the bottom of the ltsp-pnp page
16:35
They listen in different interfaces
16:35
So they're compatible
16:35
The problem is that dnsmasq's implementation of "bind-interfaces" or "bind-dynamic" has some issues still
16:36
<Julienf>
but then why when I restart the dnsmasq service (service dnsmasq restart) the PXE boot succeeds right away ?
16:36
<alkisg>
Because then it sees the interface and correctly binds to it
16:36
<Julienf>
I see
16:36
and do I need the dnsmasq that is being run by the NetworkManager ?
16:36
<alkisg>
Undo solution #2, do solution #1
16:37
I can't describe it better than that
16:37
You'll end up with only one dnsmasq
16:37
<Julienf>
with solution 1 will I be able to use my router as the DHCP server ?
16:37
<alkisg>
(that will bind to 0.0.0.0 so it won't have the bind-dynamic issues)
16:38
With either solution
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16:38
<Julienf>
ok
16:38
so I remove the DNSMASQ_EXCEPT=lo from /etc/default/dnsmasq and I follow solution 1
16:39
<alkisg>
And remove DNS_SERVER from lts.conf too
16:39
<Julienf>
yup
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16:44
<Julienf>
ok restarting now...
16:45* alkisg added a note about solution #1 being the suggested one, and about dpkg-divert nbd-client.
16:46
<Julienf>
on PID as you said and it contains a reference to the dnsmasq.d conf directory
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16:46
<Julienf>
let me check tftp is picking up correctly
16:46
<alkisg>
Julienf: when you have a minute, do comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nbd/+bug/1487679
16:46
I.e. that it affects you to, it sometimes deletes nbd-client (and some other times network-manager so no networking at all), etc
16:46
Without additional comments there, it'll take a very long time to get it solved
16:48
<Julienf>
I will, but i'm affraid my problem is not solved yet
16:48
tftp is still timing out
16:48
<alkisg>
Julienf: grep -r bind /etc/dnsmasq.d
16:48
Do you have some file mentioning "bind-interfaces" or "bind-dynamic"?
16:48
E.g. lxc or libvirt or whatever...
16:48
(not commented out, of course...)
16:49
<Julienf>
yes I do
16:49
<alkisg>
Which file?
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16:49
<Julienf>
I have 1.ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf 2. network-manager twice
16:50
<alkisg>
Can you pastebin the whole output of that grep command?
16:51
<Julienf>
http://pastebin.com/dtazbGG6
16:51* alkisg hates the ubuntu-specific patches that cause more harm than do good
16:51
<alkisg>
OK, comment out this one: /etc/dnsmasq.d/network-manager:bind-interfaces
16:52
Then reboot and check if it works
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16:52
<Julienf>
rebooting
16:53
testing tftp
16:55
and it worked!
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16:55
<alkisg>
!learn alkisg-todo as document bind-interfaces
16:55
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
16:56
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I think I'll make all those part of ltsp-config dnsmasq, if you don't mind!!! :D
16:56
Stupid ubuntu hackish patches for local resolver...
16:57
<Julienf>
I'll be able to continue playing with this new toy thx!
16:57
by the way quick question, it seems the laptop booted as a fat client by default
16:57
is that normal /
16:57
?
16:57
<vagrantc>
if it has enough ram
16:58
<alkisg>
>400 => fat, <400 => thin, configured by FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD=value in lts.conf
16:58* vagrantc thought it was much higher than that
16:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: as long as it doesn't break anything on debian :)
16:59
alkisg: and i guess i'll need to test it.
16:59
<alkisg>
Sure
16:59
<Julienf>
ok so basically if I want to force it as a thin client (to test the overall user experience as a thin) I just increase this value
16:59
<alkisg>
Or set LTSP_FATCLIENT=False
17:00
<Julienf>
ok
17:00
no need to rebuild the image when editing this file, correct ?
17:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm really convinced it's time to default to dnsmasq... was thinking of doing another LTSP upload soonish to make that happen
17:00
<alkisg>
yup
17:00
vagrantc: if you don't mind, it'd be much better to push bug fixes only for a few months,
17:00
because as long as we do that, I'm able to upload to ubuntu
17:01
When we start adding features or changing defaults, I'll have to start cherrypicking, which i'm not going to do,
17:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: how many few months?
17:01
<alkisg>
so end users will need to use the ppa
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17:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and, with that in mind, and proposed bugfixes for the immediate future?
17:01
<alkisg>
Whatever doesn't hurt debian much
17:01
<vagrantc>
er, any proposed
17:01
<alkisg>
Well, those dnsmasq issues are bugfixes
17:02
And I've already committed some after the last release
17:02
<vagrantc>
alkisg: the debian freeze has proably been pushed back to early 2017
17:02
<alkisg>
Then let's please delay small changes that add features for a while, we can add them later, right?
17:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: sure.
17:03
<alkisg>
I'm sure that in September I'll need to push a lot more bugfixes, when schools will start using 16.04
17:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm genrally fine with cherry-picking fixes ... it's my typical workflow as freeze approaches
17:04
<alkisg>
I really don't like cherry-picking, when I'll have to do that again in Ubuntu/LTSP, it'll be time to start pushing to the PPA again :)
17:05
I'll gladly test ltsp-trunk even in 10.04 if I have to, but I don't like maintaining multiple branches
17:06
(well, as long as the new releases are compatible, of course)
17:06
<vagrantc>
september is definitely getting a bit late to make *no* upstream uploads for debian... but i hear you.
17:07
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I probably didn't express myself correctly
17:07
I want us to make a lot of debian uploads
17:07
I don't want new features in them though
17:07
As then they won't match the ubuntu microreleases policy and I won't be able to easily upload them to 16.04
17:08
So we can have ltsp 5.5.8 or even 5.5.20 released to debian and synced to 16.04, as long as they're bug fix releases
17:09
<vagrantc>
don't have any major new features in mind, though i did really want to default to dnsmasq.
17:09
alkisg: i guess i can default to dnsmasq in debian without changing the default in ubuntu
17:09
<alkisg>
If you said that 2 weeks ago, we'd have that in 16.04 as well :)
17:10
Or you can commit that change in October, no?
17:11
(or in any case as later as you can, e.g. summer)
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17:16
<Julienf>
hello again
17:16
I just started the same station as a thin client for test purpose
17:17
and I have a small terminal window always there on the top left corner just beneath the menu
17:17
is that normal ?
17:17
<alkisg>
That's tilda or something, some smart terminal from the mate desktop
17:18
I'm sure there's a way to disable it
17:18
<Julienf>
ohh ok
17:18
It's just surprising that when running as a fat client
17:18
that wasn't there
17:19
I'll see how to disable it
17:19
final question (just to make sure), if I want to start installing softwares what's the best approach ? I run a session on the desktop install what I need and then rebuild the image and voila ?
17:21
<alkisg>
You login to the server normally via GUI, install software normally, and finally run ltsp-update-image -c /
17:29
<Julienf>
I'm starting to love this already!
17:29
by the way
17:29
thin clients have very reasonable performance
17:29
it's actually hard to spot a difference with Fat
17:29
when it comes to screen responsiveness
17:30
<alkisg>
...with 1 client
17:30
<Julienf>
I started two for the test
17:30
<alkisg>
Try full screen youtube on both of them
17:30
On 10, you'll see 2 fps
17:30
<Julienf>
hahaha it's a workstation
17:30
<alkisg>
While on 10 fats, 30 fps
17:30
<Julienf>
they are not supposed to watch youtube videos
17:31
or at least not all together
17:31
<alkisg>
Are they supposed to scroll windows all together?
17:31
<Julienf>
yeah
17:31
<alkisg>
Scrolling needs the same bandwidth
17:31
<Julienf>
well I'll keep the config as is
17:31
if the machine is good for FAT then it'll run FAT
17:31
otherwise thin
17:32
now I have two items left on my checklist
17:32
1. Connect to FreeIPA ldap
17:32
2. Make it run on a Raspberry PI to test perfomance and see if viable
17:33
any chance you have some documentation to connect Ubuntu to FreeIPA 4.3 ?
17:33
<alkisg>
Nope
17:34
<vagrantc>
free as in beer?
17:34
<Julienf>
haha
17:34
yes
17:34* vagrantc isn't much for IPAs
17:35
<Julienf>
well to be honest I've made some googling and that was the recos I could get
17:35
for a directory system
17:35
I'm not a sysadmin myself, learning as I go
17:37
<alkisg>
What other clients do you need to connect to that directory?
17:37
For ltsp clients, the passwd at the ltsp server is enough..
17:38
<Julienf>
well I want to make them work with other debian, centos and OSX server machines
17:38
but I'll keep that in mind as a start for a few users
17:38
so they can test the waters and get back to me with softwares they would need
17:38
one quick question related to PXE boot
17:38
any idea how to let mac computers boot from PXE ?
17:39
I have a bunch of old mac mini I would like to boot as LTSP clients
17:39
<vagrantc>
it's been a while since i've tried, but i did fight with network booting on macs a couple years ago
17:40
i think the apple motto is making simple things hard, and making random things easy.
17:41
<Julienf>
hahaha
17:41
and you forgot another essential, make cheap things expensive!
17:41
<vagrantc>
oh, yeah.
17:42
<Julienf>
well for iOs development that's still inevitable, maybe swift will change that
17:43
<vagrantc>
Julienf: basically, network booting macs is really hard using mac boot services, and harder if you want to do it with a linux boot server ... but not impossible
17:44
<Julienf>
when you say hard, do you mean it's better to buy other piece of hardware ?
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17:46
<vagrantc>
depends on your resources
17:47
Julienf: you might find something useful to decipher out of: https://github.com/freegeek-pdx/netboot-config
17:51
<Julienf>
Thanks for that, I'll check this out
17:53
<vagrantc>
i don't think i ever got x86 macs network booting linux
17:53
but if they're the older powerpc mac mini, the yaboot configs might be useful ... presuming powerpc works at all in recent distros
17:54
Julienf: i'd focus on other things before getting those working, though ... it ate several weeks of my time and still didn't have it working well.
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17:55
<sigmar>
holas
17:55* vagrantc waves
17:56
<Julienf>
hmm
17:56
well you are right, it's not my top priority now
17:56
I already have other stations I can recycle
17:56
and that's what I'll be focusing on
17:57
by the way, as you suggested YouTube video full screen is crappy when running as ThinClient on a 100Mbits network card
17:57
but on a 1Gbit network card it's super smooth
17:58
anyways I kept the fat clients config when possible
17:58
<sigmar>
español
17:58
<Julienf>
Thanks for everything, LTSP really rocks, wondering why there aren't more people using it
17:59
Ola sigmar, no habla ingles ? no creo que hay alguien que habla spanol aqui
17:59
y mi espanol no esta perfecto :-)
18:00
dice que necessitas ? a lo mejor te puedo ayudar
18:00
<sigmar>
referente a epoptes
18:01
<Julienf>
si ?
18:01
<sigmar>
como hacer un chat interno en una intranet
18:02
tambien como transferir archivos en las computadoras conectadas
18:03
<Julienf>
bueno, no se si puedo hace un chat interno con epoptes y tambien no creo que este possible transferir archivos
18:03
me voy a preguntar los experts aqui
18:03
<vagrantc>
pienso que no es posible con epoptes.
18:03
<Julienf>
hahaha so you speak spanish
18:04
<vagrantc>
a veces
18:04
<Julienf>
que chido!
18:04
<vagrantc>
olvido mucho
18:04
<Julienf>
tengo que salir! (mi tambien)
18:04
hasta luego
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19:14
<laro>
hello
19:15
alkisg: laro: yes it's quite possible that UEFI is to blame, if you installed via CSM on a GPT disk without preparation
19:15
How can I prepare the disk to install ubuntu 32bit_
19:17
or should I give up ltsp-pnp and go standalone_
19:17
?
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19:59
<alkisg>
laro: ltsp-pnp or standalone is not related to the inability to install ubuntu
19:59
if you don't install ubuntu first, how are you going to install ltsp standalone later?
20:00
There are many wiki pages with instructions on how to enable csm mode and install ubuntu 32 bit on gpt
20:00
and of course you can format to mbr if you prefer
20:01
And if your clients are 64bit, you can also install 64bit and use ltsp-pnp there as well
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