IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 22 September 2008   (all times are UTC)

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01:46
<Pascal_1>
Bonjour
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02:45
<jimjimovich>
can someone tell me how to see the detailed text-based startup process instead of the pretty ubuntu screen on ltsp ubuntu 8.04?
02:46
it is freezing during startup and i'd like to see if i can get some clues as to why from the text-based startup info
02:54
<johnny>
it's in the pxelinux.cfg/default file
02:54
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
02:55
remove quiet, and splash
02:59
<jimjimovich>
thanks :)
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04:57
<gate_keeper_>
does anyone here have some experience with openthinclient?
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06:27
<gate_keeper_>
ltsp.org is down ..
06:27
<ogra>
gate_keeper_, not down, but the http root seems borked ... we're waiting for jammcq
06:28
<gate_keeper_>
ok,thx
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06:47
<davidj>
anyone awake?
06:49
<jammcq>
hey davidj
06:50
i'm just heading out the door. I'll be back online in about 45 mins
06:50
<davidj>
jammcq: Wait!
06:50
<jammcq>
I just saw your text msg
06:51
I'll look at it when I get to the office
06:51
<ogra>
jammcq, ltsp.org is broken in case you didnt see it aet
06:51
<Nubae>
hey does sdm still exist in ltsp 5?
06:51
<ogra>
*yet
06:51
Nubae, nope
06:51
probably in etch
06:51
but that might be the last distro having it
06:51
<Nubae>
ok, out of docs it comes... its in edubuntu handbook
06:51
<ogra>
great
06:51
ldm has all the features sdm had
06:53
<jammcq>
ogra: yeah, appears to have been hacked
06:53
<ogra>
ouch
06:53
<jammcq>
i'm gonna shut it down, and deal with it when I get to the office
06:53
<ogra>
good
06:53
<Nubae>
I added something about green IT in the introduction... I wrote that thin client setups save up to 10 times on electricity... is that a fair assumption, or am I way off?
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06:53* ogra hopes it wasnt running gutsy without security updates
06:54
<jammcq>
dapper
06:54
<ogra>
unattended-updates is a very valuable thing
06:54
<jammcq>
with updates
06:54
<ogra>
hmm
06:54
<jammcq>
anyway, I'll deal with it at the office
06:54
<ogra>
well, twiki isnt the safest thing either
06:54
yeah, bye
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06:56
<davidj>
ogra: ltsp.org tried to run a local php script when I looked at it.
06:56
elinks didn't try to handle it, I don't know what Firefox might have done.
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07:00
<Nubae>
^^ about my question above... how much energy saving does running a typical ltsp lab save?
07:01
<ogra>
really depends on the clients
07:01
<Nubae>
up to how mcuh
07:01
:-)
07:01
<ogra>
you need to compare the power usage of the clients with the power usage of a common worksation
07:02
its really different for each client
07:02
<Nubae>
right but if we give a best case scenario
07:02
or give a high and low value
07:02
<ogra>
really, no idea
07:03
"some" ... up to "a lot"
07:03
:P
07:03
<Nubae>
sure IT managers will love that :-)
07:03
<ogra>
heh
07:03
<cyberorg>
Nubae, green computing part would be we help recycle old PC or delay their ending up in recycle bin in first place
07:03
<ogra>
i know highvoltage did some statistics in the past ... not sure that included power usage
07:03
<Nubae>
yeah that I already put
07:04
<highvoltage>
nope, didn't include power usage
07:04
<Nubae>
but wanted to put something about carbon emissions too... since its such a current global warming topic
07:04
<ogra>
Nubae, http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/technologies/ltsp
07:04
Recent studies have shown that using diskless Thin Clients in office environments saves on average around 50% of your power costs.
07:04
<cyberorg>
Nubae, we save hdd spinning, and cpu cycles on the TC, one of the more power consuming part
07:04
<ogra>
http://it.umsicht.fraunhofer.de/TCecology/index_en.html
07:04
<Nubae>
ok, the umsicht review
07:05
<ogra>
you can link that study
07:05
<Nubae>
saw that... I'll mention it+
07:05
openthinclient.org links to that too
07:05
<ogra>
so pick their value as i did in the marketing doc on ubuntu.com
07:05
<Nubae>
java based thin clients lol
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07:33
<Nubae>
is there a page about fail over loadbalancing that isn't ubuntu specific?
07:33
<ogra>
i dont think so
07:33
and you likely need one per distro
07:34
<Nubae>
maybe its out of the scope of the document, what do u think?
07:34
<ogra>
well, point out tht docs for it exist ...
07:34
<Nubae>
ok
07:34
<ogra>
provbably even link to them
07:34
so other distros can add their bits
07:35
<Nubae>
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDHCPload-balancingFailover
07:35
thats the one thats in there right now
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07:36
<Nubae>
Seems David Trask wrote something a while back, but pdf isnt online anymore
07:40
<ogra>
i think its the same
07:41
<Nubae>
yeah seems to be pretty distro non specific, but wonder if it works for Hardy and Intrepid?
07:41
and any other modern distro for that matter
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08:26
<cyberorg>
http://lizards.opensuse.org/2008/09/22/first-impressions-of-opensuse-ltsp-5-05/ :)
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08:30
<ogra>
cyberorg, dont let warren see that you call it ltsp-5
08:31
<cyberorg>
ogra, there is no way out, calling it kiwi-ltsp or ltsp5, can't please warren :D
08:31* ogra is slightly upset that localapps is promoted as production ready there
08:32
<ogra>
cyberorg, well, kiwi-ltsp would be better
08:32
<cyberorg>
not on the page it links http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Localapps
08:32
<ogra>
ah, good
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08:34
<highvoltage>
ogra: how is localapps these days? I tried to got it going yesterday (only had an hour or so to look at it), but couldn't get it running
08:34
<nubae>
ogra: I can confirm asmo's usb reading problem on alpha6
08:34
<Gadi>
kudos, cyberorg
08:34
<cyberorg>
Gadi, thanks, it is all your hard work :)
08:34
<ogra>
highvoltage, its experimental and only the infrastructure is in place
08:34
<highvoltage>
ogra: ah, ok
08:34
<ogra>
though it should work
08:35
usign the script from the examples dir on the ltsp-server dosc
08:35
*docs
08:35
<cyberorg>
Gadi, sorry i haven't been able to test ldm here, i am on 11.1 b1, most things that i need is broken :(
08:35
<Gadi>
cyberorg: you don't give urself enough credit - I, for one, am quite happy to have people playing with local apps already
08:35
it forces us to get it pro-ready quicker
08:35
:)
08:35
<cyberorg>
Gadi, there is nothing i have done there, it just works
08:36
<nubae>
ogra: local cd works though, its just usb not working
08:36
<ogra>
Gadi, if i find the time i'll work on the .desktop file integration at BTS
08:37
nubae, yeah i think hal is blocking something
08:37
<Gadi>
ogra: cool - I am eager to see how you craft that magic
08:37
<ogra>
no magic at all
08:37* Gadi is still unclear about the tmpfs mount
08:37
<ogra>
whats unclear about that
08:37* Gadi is unclear which side you wil mount on
08:38
<Gadi>
server or client
08:38
<ogra>
on the client
08:38
<Gadi>
then, it won't be seen by the server
08:38
<ogra>
first you set the tmpfs or bind mount
08:38
<Gadi>
that's my confusion
08:38
<ogra>
why shouldnt it ?
08:38
i create it after mounting sshfs
08:38
so surely it will be overlayed above the sshfs mount and indeed the server will see it
08:39
<cyberorg>
ogra, how do you plan to support apps that dont have .desktop files?
08:39
<ogra>
i dont
08:39
<Gadi>
right - and so it is a client-side filesystem mounted on a client-side mountpoint - but I don't think the server will see that reflected
08:39
<ogra>
create a .desktop file for them
08:39
or have a script that does that
08:39
<cyberorg>
manually?
08:39
<ogra>
no
08:39
<Gadi>
but, the proof is in the pudding, as they say
08:39
:)
08:39
<ogra>
right
08:39
i'll show you ... if that doesnt work i'll find a way around, dont worry
08:40
<Gadi>
heh, I have no worries :)
08:40
just, if it doesn't work, it gets a lot uglier
08:40
:)
08:40
btw, I propose adding another X atom to track the return value/message of launcching the app
08:41
something like: LTSP_COMMAND_RESULT
08:41
or something
08:41
that can be read to do error-handling
08:41
<ogra>
sounds sane
08:41
<Gadi>
it can be cleared when LTSP_COMMAND is set
08:41* ogra has to go back to work
08:42
<Gadi>
heh, me too
08:51* nubae pushed revised LTSP documentation in case anyone is interested
08:51
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:52
Hmmm, I'm a little light in my bank account.
08:52
Overspent a bit this weekend.
08:52
<ogra>
ouch
08:52
<sbalneav>
Wonder if the American Taxpayer would be willing to bail me out. 700 Bil. should do it.
08:53
I hear they've got the money :)
08:53
<nubae>
lol
08:53
<sbalneav>
What, no takers on my biting political humour? :)
08:54
Guess I'll have to pull a Gadi and tell "Momma's thin client" jokes :)
08:54
700 billion dollars.
08:54
that's like, 700,000 Million Dollars!
08:54
<Blinny>
Yo mama's thin clients are so fat.. when they're backed up, THEY BEEP!
08:55
<cyberorg>
Yo mama's thin clients are so fat.. when they go broke, you get 700,000 Million Dollars!
08:55
<nubae>
that's a lot of thin clients :-)
08:55
<Blinny>
C'mon.. that's classic!
08:55
<sbalneav>
Dr. Evil doesn't have that many pinkies to hold to the corner of his mouth.
08:55
<ogra>
sbalneav, you culd join warren's business model and sell power buttons for thincan clients :)
08:55
<Blinny>
Trucks/Lorries don't have reverse beepers in other parts of the world?
08:56
<nubae>
big ones do
08:57
<Blinny>
Haha!
08:57* Blinny sighs
08:57
<sbalneav>
ogra: ok, lets see. At a dollar a button, I'd have to sell....
08:57* sbalneav frantically counts on fingers
08:57
<sbalneav>
A lot more than 21 :(
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09:02
<davidj>
jammcq: Good mornining.
09:02
<jammcq>
g'morning friends
09:02
<davidj>
ing
09:02
<sbalneav>
Morning jammcq!
09:04
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:04
<nubae>
sbalneav: u mentioned something about some changes u did to documentation regarding copyright and that...
09:05
I just pushed what I have up... I can integrate, or u can integrate what u've got
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09:07
<sbalneav>
nubae: I think I updated my branch on LP, I'll check today, and we can merge.
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09:15
<cliebow>
hey hey..gangs all here...momentarily
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10:28
<QWK2LRN>
hello
10:29
I am setting up sound with alsa and only get sound logged in as root
10:29
is there a good way to set permissions for users?
10:31
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: what distribution?
10:31
and version of LTSP
10:31
<QWK2LRN>
rhel 4 and Ltsp 4.2
10:32
<Gadi>
on LTSP 4.2 you need to use esd for sound
10:32
you cannot use alsa
10:34
<QWK2LRN>
thank you very much
10:34
I need to confirm the version for Ltsp and get back
10:34
what is problem with alsa?
10:35
<Gadi>
alsa (by itself) does not do network sound
10:35
so, the apps on your server cannot play sounds on your thin client's sound card
10:35
<ogra>
and ltsp 4.x is obsolete and unmaintained
10:36
<cyberorg>
where are all the folks who wrote it these days?
10:37
<sbalneav>
I'm here, and jammcq's here :)
10:37
<ogra>
busy fixing the ltsp.org server :P
10:37
<Gadi>
ahem
10:37
<sbalneav>
And Gadi, sorry
10:37
<ogra>
ah, thats why
10:37
:)
10:37* sbalneav hopes for a thin client joke
10:37
<cyberorg>
just three of you maintained the entire distribution? that was awesome
10:37
<Gadi>
sbalneav's mama's thin client's so fat....
10:38
cyberorg: there were more
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10:38
<ogra>
and there was LBE :)
10:38
<QWK2LRN>
Does RHEL present an special problems for sound with LTSP?
10:39
<monteslu>
did RAM requirents go up significantly with ltsp5?
10:39
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: well, you are strongly encouraged to upgrade to LTSP5
10:39
<monteslu>
I think I have to upgrade some of my thin clients
10:39
<Gadi>
the degree to which that is easy on rhel, I am not sure
10:39
if you continue with ltsp4.2, then there should be nothing inherent to rhel that should stifle your sound
10:39
<ogra>
monteslu, on ubuntu you need at least 48M to boot, 64M recommended, 128M being good
10:40
monteslu, debian has similar numbers, not sure about redhat or gentoo
10:40
<monteslu>
ogra, some of mine are 128 - 32 shared video
10:40
they're crashing
10:40
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: if you are on the k12ltsp listserv, you can find good answers to ltsp 4.2 related issues on redhat based systems
10:40
<ogra>
that should be fine
10:40
<monteslu>
free shows they're tapped
10:40
but I've got some RAM on order
10:41
DDR is cheap
10:41
<QWK2LRN>
we find below 128 thin clients will sometimes lock up
10:41
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: use NBD_SWAP
10:41
<monteslu>
well, jammcq's thin clients are fine on 128, but i think that's because they're not sharing video ram
10:41
... I think
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10:41
<QWK2LRN>
thanks I will try that on a 64mb unit
10:41
<monteslu>
I can't figure out how to get into the bios on these little guys
10:42
giving the the ntavos 512 is also in hopes that I'll be able to do some local apps stuff in the near future :)
10:44
Gadi, NBD_SWAP is off by default right? I'd sooner buy more RAM than put further drain on the network
10:45
<Gadi>
monteslu: I believe so (but, hey - that's really a distro-specific question)
10:45
<monteslu>
oh, right
10:45
8.04
10:45
<Gadi>
upstream, it should be disabled by default
10:45
<monteslu>
cool
10:45
<ogra>
its off by default
10:45
will automatically be used as soon as the initramfs detects less than 48M though
10:46
<monteslu>
that's a good idea
10:46
<ogra>
so people wih 32M can at least get something booting ... but slow
10:46
with 8.10 32M should work fine
10:46
we have compcache support by default in there
10:46
that extends the 32M to about 48M
10:46
using compression in ram
10:47
<monteslu>
I think the thin clients want to idle around 92 megs of ram
10:47
though the ones i checked were also running jetpipe
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10:47
<monteslu>
which might be the only thing loading python
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10:48
<monteslu>
jammcq!
10:48
<jammcq>
hey monteslu
10:48
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi we are using esd +OSS +alsa has worked but on reboot it fails
10:48
<monteslu>
hey, how do I get into the bios on a t150 >
10:48
?
10:48
<jammcq>
ummm
10:49
<Blinny>
I really like that attention is given to keeping older compys working as thin clients. We have tons of P1s and PIIs, and their use as thin clients was included in the cost estimate of switching to LTSP.
10:49
<jammcq>
seems like holding F10 or F12 at power on will do it
10:49
<monteslu>
i'd look for the manual, but you don't have the old stuff on your site anymore
10:49
cool, thanks
10:50
ahh the t150s must have dedicated video ram
10:50
that's why they're staying up :)
10:50
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: not sure exactly what you mean
10:50
<jammcq>
monteslu: it's not my site. I've been out of DisklessWorkstations for almost a year
10:51
<monteslu>
jammcq, really?
10:51
didn't know that
10:51
<jammcq>
really
10:51
<monteslu>
is the new owner part of ltsp?
10:51
<jammcq>
he's not new. I just sold my portion to my partner, the guy who created ltsp with me almost 10 years ago
10:52
<QWK2LRN>
Alsa sound was working with esd and OSS but on reboot the permissions seem be lost for users (sound then only works for root)
10:52
<monteslu>
did he do development as well?
10:53
<jammcq>
he's a developer, although he's not developing ltsp code
10:53
but etyack and _UsUrPeR_ are also affiliated with DisklessWorkstations.com
10:53
they're doing deployment stuff
10:54
<monteslu>
ok, I'll still look there first for my stuff :)
10:54
<jammcq>
yeah, they still support LTSP.org development by providing funding for some special events
10:54
<monteslu>
good to hear
10:57* _UsUrPeR_ has burning ears
10:57
<_UsUrPeR_>
hello~
10:57
<QWK2LRN>
GADI: Alsa sound was working with esd and OSS but on reboot the permissions seem be lost for users (sound then only works for root)
10:59
JAM: is there an arbitrary limit on the number of users in lts.conf?
10:59
<ogra>
lts.conf doesnt have anything to do with users ...
10:59
only with clients
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11:00
<QWK2LRN>
OGRA: thank you I meant number of clients
11:01
<ogra>
it doesnt
11:01
(doesnt limit)
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11:01
<monteslu>
while we're on lts.conf, is there a way to put a comment in a section besides the top?
11:02
the parser breaks on the normal comment char
11:02
<jammcq>
huh?
11:02
i've got comments all over my config file
11:02
<monteslu>
me too, but only at the top
11:02
putting something in a single thin client's section and it breaks
11:02* ogra comments stuff regulary
11:03
<ogra>
it just ignores lines that start with #
11:03
<monteslu>
well, its more for commenting stuff out that I use it
11:03
ogra, right
11:03
but it didn't
11:03
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: how do you test sound?
11:03
<ogra>
and the code didnt change between 4.x and 5
11:03
it works here
11:04
<jammcq>
works here
11:04
<monteslu>
well, I'll break it again and send you my conf :)
11:04
<jammcq>
k
11:04* jammcq wonders if getltscfg is the last remnant of the original LTSP code
11:04
<Gadi>
the one we dare not change
11:04
:)
11:05
<jammcq>
it's like the corner stone
11:05
<sbalneav>
ltspfs didn't change much between 4.2 and 5
11:05
<monteslu>
you mean you're not gona make it xml based ?!?!
11:05* monteslu ducks
11:05
<jammcq>
remove it, and there'll be no tax incentives
11:05
sbalneav: yeah, but getltscfg goes all the way back to LTSP-1.0
11:06
<sbalneav>
This is true
11:07
<jammcq>
monteslu: when I originally wrote it, I considered xml
11:07
very briefly
11:07
<Gadi>
so, I found the magic incantation for the printing issue: echo "ServerName ${LDM_SERVER}" > /etc/cups/client.conf
11:08
keep that in the back of ur minds, ladies and gents
11:08
<jammcq>
Gadi: handing the print jobs off to a server cups ?
11:08
<monteslu>
jammcq, I've spent the last ten years writing in java. So I'm biased towards xml based configs
11:08
<Gadi>
yeah - we're gonna need something like that for LOCAL_APPS
11:08
<jammcq>
very nice
11:09* ogra whacks monteslu with an xml stick
11:09
<monteslu>
hah
11:09
ogra, don't worry. I've brought up here two or three times in the last few years and have been thoroughly whacked several times
11:10
<ogra>
well, you have another opponent now :)
11:10
the ini format is so nice :)
11:10
<monteslu>
making firends on a daily basis
11:10
<ogra>
and easy enough to read for anyone
11:11
xml will force you to use extra tools
11:11
<monteslu>
ini doesn't have inheritance and polymorphism
11:11
<Gadi>
btw, I have another scriptie with another LDM param: LDM_USER_ALLOW
11:11
<jammcq>
i'm not sure i'd call .ini nice, but it's certainly a good solution to the problem
11:11
<monteslu>
ogra, they're both clear text
11:11* Gadi will try to merge some stuff today/tomorrow
11:12
<ogra>
monteslu, i wouldnt expect my mom to be able to edit xml in a texteditor ... but she would probably grasp the format of an ini file
11:12
<monteslu>
ogra, she told me she was cool with it :)
11:12
<Gadi>
ogra's mamma's thin client's so fat....
11:12
<jammcq>
oh jeez
11:12* ogra shakes his head and goes back to work
11:12
<Gadi>
... it doesn't have an ini - only an outie :)
11:13
ok, then...
11:13
<monteslu>
so glad I'm working from home today
11:13
<Gadi>
my beer is so warm - it tastes like coffee...
11:13
<monteslu>
laugh would have given me away
11:13Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
11:15
<Q-FUNK>
õhtust!
11:15
<ogra>
ülöäüß
11:15
!
11:15
<Gadi>
Q-FUNK: isn't that a territory in Risk?
11:16
<Q-FUNK>
:D
11:16
no, that would be Syldavia
11:18mikkel has joined #ltsp
11:19sepski has joined #ltsp
11:19
<monteslu>
ooh yes, crucial to olding north america for the 5 point bonus
11:19
s/olding/holding
11:19
<warren>
ogra: how can I not receive any of those launchpad bug mail?
11:19* AlienX_ kind of likes the word "olding". Sounds like something people in Florida to :D
11:19
<warren>
ogra: none of whawt I've received so far is relevant to me
11:20
<ogra>
warren, there are such things like filters :)
11:20
i cant imagine hal-addon-storage doesnt gan you any probs though
11:20
*gain
11:21
<Q-FUNK>
hal-hardon-storage *cough*
11:22
<ogra>
the ltspfs rules dont seem happy with it running and monitoring the usb keys
11:22
i'll take a look mid week
11:32gbolte has joined #ltsp
11:35ATA_Dark_Shadow has quit IRC
11:48QWK2LRN has quit IRC
11:51
<cliebow>
warren:feeling better??
12:01
<warren>
cliebow: no
12:01
cliebow: I drove 1.5 hours in traffic this morning only to realize my post-op appointment is Wednesday
12:03vagrantc has joined #ltsp
12:07* johnny hopes warren feels better soon
12:08Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp
12:08
<warren>
johnny: it is apparently a process...
12:08
I have a little energy today
12:08* johnny presses fast forward
12:08
<warren>
but I have to sleep again soon
12:08
and I'm still bleeding like heck
12:08
<johnny>
:(
12:12
<cliebow>
warren:that would make me feel a little low too..course i Already know I am slipping...;-]
12:12b-man has joined #ltsp
12:12
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: fellow over in #edubuntu having troubles with USB, I'bm directing him here
12:12
<b-man>
hi, here i am
12:13
<sbalneav>
b-man: What was the web page you were looking at?
12:13
<b-man>
the guy with the usb trouble
12:13
for debugging i took https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
12:13
<vagrantc>
b-man: which distro and release?
12:13
<b-man>
debian lenny, latest release
12:14
<vagrantc>
!vers
12:14
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: Error: "vers" is not a valid command.
12:14
<sbalneav>
ok, so what address range do you have your thin clients on?
12:14
<vagrantc>
!ver
12:14
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "ver" is to get version info on debian/ubuntu (please use the pastebot): COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp*' | awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}' ; COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp*' ldm | awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}'
12:14
<sbalneav>
192.168.0.x?
12:15
<b-man>
10.10.10.x
12:15
<vagrantc>
b-man: please post the results of the above command to the pastebot
12:15
<ogra>
vagrantc, you get that ver thing wrong every time :) time for a link
12:15
<vagrantc>
ogra: heh.
12:15
<sbalneav>
b-man: So, did you sub in 10.10.10.x for step 4/
12:15
?
12:16
<b-man>
yes
12:16
i replaced it with my socket / my servers ip
12:16
<ogra>
and are you logged in in ldm ?
12:16DonSilver has joined #ltsp
12:16
<b-man>
yes
12:16
<vagrantc>
b-man: could you summarize what you've done so far?
12:17
<sbalneav>
ok, instead of doing the ssh with the ltspfs command, try just doing a "date" command, to see if the ssh connection is plumbed
12:17
<vagrantc>
b-man: since i wasn't involved in the earlier conversation
12:18
<b-man>
ok, first i set up a test server, did everything what was told in the debian howto
12:18
everything worked fine
12:18
then i set ldm / usb up on the real server
12:18
ldm works, usb not
12:18
"date" command like?
12:18
<ogra>
ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 date
12:19
(if your server ip is 192.168.0.254 indeed)
12:19
<b-man>
i get date & time :)
12:19
<sbalneav>
ok, so the ssh is there
12:19
<ogra>
good, the ssh tunel works then
12:19
<b-man>
ahh ok, date command :P
12:20
<sbalneav>
but when you run the ltspadd command, you get auth failed?
12:20
<b-man>
had not enough coffee this morning
12:20
yes
12:20
<sbalneav>
sounds like the ltspfs secret key script either didn't fire, or isn't there
12:20
<vagrantc>
where are all these commands being run from?
12:21
<b-man>
as root on the thin client
12:21
<vagrantc>
from X ?
12:21
<b-man>
ahh, i get it wrong
12:21
<vagrantc>
ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 'echo $DISPLAY'
12:22
<b-man>
is empty
12:22
<vagrantc>
that's the problem.
12:22
at least with the test
12:22
unless you've configured it to not use security.
12:23
i.e. configured ltspfsd to run with different arguments
12:23
<ogra>
well, it should be localhost:11 or some such by defult
12:23
<vagrantc>
yes, but if you're running it from the commandline the display is probably not properly set ... so the test is broken.
12:23
<ogra>
the display on the server side comes from -X
12:24
so needs to be the proxy
12:24
<vagrantc>
correct.
12:24
b-man: just simply do: echo $DISPLAY
12:24
<ogra>
if it returns an empty value i'D suspect X forwarding being disabled
12:24
<vagrantc>
ogra: if ssh -X has nothing to forward...
12:24
<ogra>
in sshd
12:24
it uses the existing ldm connection
12:24
<b-man>
echo $DISPLAY on the thin-client is also empty
12:25
<ogra>
-S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 does that
12:25* vagrantc fires up a test environment
12:25
<ogra>
so it *must* have the ldm display
12:25
at least on the server side
12:25
<vagrantc>
b-man: could you please run the following command from the server and paste it to the pastebot:
12:25
!ver
12:25
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "ver" is to get version info on debian/ubuntu (please use the pastebot): COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp*' | awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}' ; COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp*' ldm | awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}'
12:26
<ogra>
but b-man said he is logged in in ldm so there must be value
12:27
<b-man>
everything from COLUMNS=200 to the end?
12:27
<vagrantc>
b-man: yes, please. the whole thing.
12:27
b-man: just cut and paste it.
12:27
<b-man>
ok
12:28
it says
12:28
ltsp-server
12:28
5.1.10-2
12:28
ltspfs
12:28
0.5.3-2
12:28
ltspfsd
12:28
0.5.3-2
12:28
ltspswapd
12:28
0.0.2006.10.19-1
12:28
dpkg-query: failed to open package info file `/opt/ltsp/i386/var/lib/dpkg/status' for reading: No such file or directory
12:28
<vagrantc>
!pastebot
12:28
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
12:28
<vagrantc>
ltspswapd, eh?
12:29
<b-man>
ah, ok, pastebot - next time i"ll use it :D
12:29
mhh didn't installed it
12:29
<vagrantc>
b-man: ltspswapd isn't part of debian ... where did you install that?
12:30
<b-man>
i didn"t installed it
12:30
it seems like it was already there
12:30
<vagrantc>
b-man: it also seems like you don't have ltsp installed in the normal place ...
12:30
b-man: does /opt/ltsp/i386 exist?
12:30
<b-man>
yes
12:31
perhaps someone did this before
12:31
<vagrantc>
b-man: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/debian_version ?
12:31
<b-man>
ltsp isn't running on this machine, mom plz
12:31
<vagrantc>
b-man: and ltspfsd shouldn't be installed on the server.
12:32
<b-man>
sure, perhaps it was my parent ..
12:32Q-FUNK has quit IRC
12:32
<vagrantc>
b-man: my initial guess is you have ltsp 4.x installed.
12:32
<b-man>
mhh
12:32
ok
12:32
we"ve two machines
12:33
one for the display manager
12:33LocutusQWK has joined #ltsp
12:33
<b-man>
and one for ltsp
12:33
i installed the ltsp machine new
12:33
with ltsp 5
12:33
and just updatet the display manager machine with ldm
12:34
and ldm needed ltsp-server to work
12:34
<vagrantc>
shouldn't need it, but it's generally a good idea.
12:34
<b-man>
so i also installed ltsp-server on the display-manager machine
12:34
<vagrantc>
b-man: so please run that command on your actual ltsp server.
12:34
<LocutusQWK>
Hello, just joined
12:34
<b-man>
ltsp 4.2 was used before
12:35
but this serveris shut down
12:35
shutted
12:36
please excuse my english :)
12:36
<vagrantc>
no problem
12:36
<LocutusQWK>
Using LTSP 4.2 w/RHEL4.0. Sound on the client only works when login as root
12:38
Running ALSA. Receive a 'no device' permission error message re: snd_open_ctl
12:39
when login as a client
12:40
<ltsppbot>
"b-man" pasted "vagrantc: "ver" is to get version info on debian/ubuntu (please use the pastebot): COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp*' | awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}' ; COLUMNS" (10 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/1
12:40
<sbalneav>
So, if you login as root from a client, the sound works, or sound never works on the client?
12:41
<b-man>
pasted :D
12:41
it must be a problem with the ldm-server
12:41
because it already worked with my ldm-test-server
12:41
i used the same ltsp-server
12:41
<LocutusQWK>
sbalneav: thank you...when logged in on client as root sound works
12:42
<b-man>
but it would be horrible if i had to reinstall the real server
12:42
<vagrantc>
b-man: so you're able to log in to the server, just localdevices don't work?
12:42
<b-man>
yes
12:42
sound also works fine
12:43
and they did on the test-ldm-server
12:43
<sbalneav>
LocutusQWK: Does the server have an "audio" or "sound" group? You might have to add the users to it.
12:43
<LocutusQWK>
vagrantc: no sound card on server just clients. .wmv files work on all clients
12:43
yes audio group is defined
12:44
<vagrantc>
LocutusQWK: sorry, i don't know RHEL or ltsp 4.x
12:44
b-man: user is in the fuse group?
12:44
<b-man>
yes
12:44
but wer"re using a ldap server
12:44
<vagrantc>
b-man: on the server: ls -l /dev/fuse
12:44
<sbalneav>
LocutusQWK: Well, for a start, I'd try adding any users who you want to have sound to that group
12:44
<b-man>
i first thought this could be the problem
12:44
<vagrantc>
b-man: definitely could be, yes.
12:45
<LocutusQWK>
I think the problem is my permissions on the client somewhere in alsa libraries
12:45
<b-man>
crw-rw-rw- 1 root fuse 10, 229 2008-09-22 10:53 /dev/fuse
12:45
<LocutusQWK>
Has worked in past but when server rebooted it stopped working on clients
12:45
<b-man>
i changed the chmod to 666 because i thought this could solve the problem
12:45
<Gadi>
LocutusQWK: see if the user has a ~/.esd_auth
12:45
<b-man>
if it was a group-problem
12:46
<LocutusQWK>
it has a /.esd_auth
12:46
<Gadi>
remove it and log the user back in
12:47
<LocutusQWK>
thank you I will try that now
12:47
correction /.esd_auth was not there
12:48* Gadi guesses that "root" has one
12:49
<vagrantc>
b-man: i'll boot up my test environment and see what i get
12:49
<b-man>
ok, thank u very much
12:49
<vagrantc>
hopefully something didn't just break it
12:51
<Gadi>
b-man: are you trying to get local devices working for users in ldap without adding them to the fuse group?
12:52
<b-man>
i added them all to the fuse group
12:52The_Code has joined #ltsp
12:52
<Gadi>
a local fuse group or an ldap fuse group?
12:53
<b-man>
ldap
12:53
mom
12:53
<Gadi>
there's your problem
12:53
<b-man>
i need a local group?
12:53
<Gadi>
they should belong to the local system group ldap
12:53
er, fuse
12:54
your ldap "fuse" group has a different gid than your local "fuse" group
12:54
and all the perms are set to your local "fuse" group
12:54
<b-man>
there is no local group fuse
12:54
<Gadi>
:)
12:54
ls -l /bin/fusermount
12:55
<b-man>
mhh there is no /bin/fusermount
12:55
<Gadi>
are you sure you have fuse installed?
12:55
dpkg -l|grep fuse
12:55
<b-man>
fuse-utils
12:55
mom
12:56
<LocutusQWK>
Gad: thank you we are checking the clients....our sound from root seems to have gone away
12:56
<ltsppbot>
"b-man" pasted "dpkg -l | grep fuse" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/2
12:56
<Gadi>
how about libfuse2?
12:56
<vagrantc>
b-man: why do you keep saying "mom" ?
12:57
<b-man>
ok, i'll stop saying it
12:57
<Gadi>
b-man: dpkg -L fuse-utils
12:57
(paste that)
12:57
<vagrantc>
b-man: just curious is all :)
12:57DonSilver has quit IRC
12:57
<ltsppbot>
"b-man" pasted "dpkg -L fuse-utils" (19 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/3
12:58
<Gadi>
ls -l /usr/bin/fusermount
12:58
:)
12:59
<b-man>
-rwsr-xr-- 1 root fuse 23496 2008-09-16 08:36 /usr/bin/fusermount
12:59
<Gadi>
so, you do have a local fuse group
12:59sepski has quit IRC
12:59
<Gadi>
grep fuse /etc/group
12:59
<b-man>
opteron2:~# cat /etc/group | grep fuse
12:59
opteron2:~#
13:00
opteron2:~# getent group
13:00
fuse:x:117:
13:00
<Gadi>
is that the ID you gave fuse in ldap?
13:01
<b-man>
it was created automatically
13:01
<Gadi>
plus, it seems your fuse group has no users
13:01
<b-man>
it has
13:01K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
13:01
<Gadi>
fuse:x:117:
13:01
not according to that
13:01
<b-man>
i dinn"t paste them, because the"re quite a lot
13:01
<Gadi>
ah
13:01
<vagrantc>
b-man: you should really tell us when you've edited the output :P
13:02
<b-man>
sorry :D
13:02
<Gadi>
b-man: try: sudo chown root.fuse /usr/bin/fusermount
13:02
<b-man>
ok
13:02
<Gadi>
and: sudo chow root.fuse /dev/fuse
13:02
*chown
13:03
and, try the local devices again
13:03
<b-man>
sure, done
13:04Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
13:04
<b-man>
- but not with testing, need to reboot the thin client
13:06spectra has joined #ltsp
13:06
<b-man>
mhhh no, doesn"t work
13:07
<ogra>
man group.conf ?
13:08
<b-man>
but if it's really a group-problem. the localdev should work if i set the chmod of /dev/fuse and the mounter to 666, right?
13:12
<vagrantc>
b-man: no, because you don't have permission to run fusermount
13:12
<ogra>
use group.conf
13:12
that should work
13:12
<b-man>
ok, i'll have a look at it
13:12
<ogra>
and dont have the fuse group in ldap
13:18
<Gadi>
b-man: you could: chmod +s /usr/bin/fusermount and chmod 666 /dev/fuse
13:18
at least to rule out perms
13:22
<Nubae>
jeez, even changing LDM theme is totally different in suse
13:22dmaran has quit IRC
13:24
<ogra>
Nubae, yep, everything is
13:25
<Nubae>
well, the docs aren't gonna help much for suse users
13:25
<ogra>
sadly
13:25
probably suse then reconsiders and helps upstream :)
13:27
<vagrantc>
Nubae: how do they change the LDM theme?
13:27
<Nubae>
http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Tips_and_Tricks#Adding_application_into_the_image_to_run_as_localapps
13:27
in the middle of that document
13:28
<vagrantc>
eeyk. the very first line on that page sounds like *Evil*
13:29
<Nubae>
its all ass backwards
13:29
<ogra>
yeah
13:29
<Nubae>
KIWI provides a mechanism to send configuration files from the server to client via tftp.
13:30
<b-man>
ok, next step is to switch off ldap, create group and user local anf test it
13:30
<ogra>
what vagrantc wanted was http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Tips_and_Tricks#Changing_LDM_theme ... at least that doesnt make you go blind
13:30
<vagrantc>
maybe i mislead them when i said one plugin in the ltsp-build-client dir was fine.
13:30
<ogra>
though its not more beautiful either
13:30
<Nubae>
:-)
13:31
<ogra>
vagrantc, well, if they would use it and promote ltsp-build-client that wuld already be a massive move
13:31
<b-man>
and thank u very much for ur help, so far
13:31
<johnny>
vagrantc, both fedora and gentoo have very limited plugins in there
13:31
i'm actually thinking about consolidating it even more
13:31
<vagrantc>
johnny: oh well.
13:31
<johnny>
we use the same variables tho.. in gentoo land
13:31
<vagrantc>
it was the first attempt at a design that hopefully everyone could use.
13:32
<johnny>
but it's too tempting to use our own distro's configuration tools.. which in some cases, do more than what debootstrap and friends seem to be able to do
13:32
<vagrantc>
actually, i like the concept of what warren was doing with chroot-setup.d and such ...
13:32Pascal_1 has left #ltsp
13:33
<vagrantc>
johnny: sure. and arguably, that's what you should use.
13:33
ltsp5 is about mimicking the host distro
13:33
or following host distro conventions, at least
13:34
<Nubae>
ok, just to check, in the non-suse world, ldm themes are located here, right?: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/
13:34
<ogra>
right
13:34
<Nubae>
with a link to here: /etc/alternatives/ldm-theme
13:34
<ogra>
and /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/default is always the one used
13:34
well, if your distro has alternatives
13:34
<johnny>
Nubae, except on gentoo it's x86 :) not i386
13:35
<Nubae>
well, thats fine, whatever you call the chroot is up to the user really
13:35
<ogra>
in any case default will point to the used theme, either through alternatives or directly
13:35
<Nubae>
its just totally different paths make no sense
13:35
<johnny>
i use the same paths as upstream other than that
13:36
<dberkholz>
johnny: i kinda think we should change the tftproot to the default location instead of our weird one
13:36Blinny has quit IRC
13:37
<dberkholz>
johnny: someone made a good point about integrating with anything else people might want to ship out via tftp
13:37
<johnny>
dberkholz, what is our weird one?
13:37
<ogra>
/tftpboot ?
13:37
<johnny>
dberkholz, any word on this bug? http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=235789
13:37
<dberkholz>
the /opt/ltsp/tftp or whatever it is
13:37
<johnny>
dberkholz, we haven't actually standardized on that :)
13:38
i'm not using that :) i'm using the upstream location here
13:38
<dberkholz>
oh good
13:38
<ogra>
doesnt gentoo have a standard for it ?
13:38
<dberkholz>
please put that in any docs too
13:38
<johnny>
i will.. trying to get around that
13:38
our bookfair is this weekend.. so it'll prolly have to wait til next week
13:38
hopefully amy goodman will draw in the crowds..
13:38
<dberkholz>
ogra: the server-side is mainly manually configured right now
13:39
<ogra>
dberkholz, yeah, but if i emerge a tftpd what would that use by default ?
13:39
<dberkholz>
whatever its upstream config file says
13:39
they don't necessarily agree
13:39
<ogra>
well, pick a default one and standadize on that one :)
13:40
(a default tftpd i mean)
13:40
<dberkholz>
/var/lib/tftproot seems to be fairly typical
13:40
yeah, i like dnsmasq.
13:40
<ogra>
thats what e did in debian and ubuntu as well
13:40
<johnny>
except many people have their own dhcp servers
13:40
<ogra>
(though ubuntu simply pulls the defaults from debian here)
13:40
<johnny>
that's where warren's setup has advantages
13:40
<dberkholz>
so? dnsmasq should be able to do whatever you want it to
13:40
<Nubae>
well, its easy enough to turn off
13:40
<dberkholz>
turn off dhcp
13:40* ogra cant use dnsmasq in the default
13:41* vagrantc likes dnsmasq
13:41
<dberkholz>
if it can't, simon would likely fix it
13:41
<ogra>
there is no way i get that approved by our security team to go into main
13:41
<vagrantc>
there's only one patch we need in the initramfs to get it to properly download the lts.conf
13:41
<johnny>
vagrantc, the netascii thing?
13:41
<vagrantc>
johnny: yeah
13:42
<johnny>
i ran into that bug myself.. when scott was telling me not to use dnsmasq :)
13:43
hmm.. anybody here wanna recommend some decent thin clients for me to use? that can use local apps.. and gotten for a budget? or donated to a non profit for a writeoff? :)
13:43
i need 4
13:43
or rather 3
13:43
or.. i can even do some work for one..
13:44
<Nubae>
whats wrong with your old computers?
13:46
<johnny>
our space is too small
13:47
we need to lighten up the space
13:47
we're going to make some of them stand up. so folks don't stick around all day
13:47
<Nubae>
ah... makes sense
13:47
<johnny>
we do try to encourage an environment where folks can hang out
13:47
but it surely pushes the limits of our space
13:48* ogra really loved the disklessworkstations.com T150
13:48
<johnny>
especially since we have to make money to stay open
13:48
<ogra>
but its not sold anymore
13:50
<johnny>
dberkholz, so.. any comment on that bug? :)
13:50
<cliebow>
t150 rocks..onlyy decent client i have
13:50
<johnny>
we need to be cool like everybody else and their xorg-server 1.5 :)
13:50
<ogra>
be cool :)
13:52Q-FUNK has quit IRC
13:52
<johnny>
our budget is super low.. :(
13:52Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
13:53
<Nubae>
I don't get this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/XkioskKiosk
13:53
<johnny>
i'm probably going to end up spending all of what i have on 3 monitors
13:53
<Nubae>
stand alone X terminal on a thin client?
13:53
is that a local X terminal?
13:53* ogra has no idea what that is
13:53Q-FUNK has quit IRC
13:53
<dberkholz>
johnny: i can't reproduce it. is it x86-only or something?
13:53
<johnny>
yes it is
13:54
<ogra>
but my name is mentioned on it ... makes me famous, so i like it :P
13:54
<dberkholz>
if it affected all x86 users, i'd expect there to be about 500 more CCs on it
13:54
<Nubae>
hmmm and why not just hit alt cntrl f1?
13:54
<johnny>
dberkholz, it's with 2.6.26 headers
13:54
afaics
13:54* ogra wonders who wireless89 is ... he wrote it it seems
13:54
<johnny>
it should work fine with earlier headers
13:54
<dberkholz>
right, current ~x86 of linux-headres and xorg-server
13:55
<johnny>
there's already a patch there
13:55
does it look wrong to you?
13:55
<Nubae>
I like the idea of making a thin terminal that is ascii based though... like in the old vms days... u get a choice of email, lynx, gopher... heh
13:55
<dberkholz>
i haven't had a chance to verify it
13:55
<Nubae>
u could run 386s on it
13:56Subhodip has quit IRC
13:56
<Nubae>
even ascii art with a graphics to ascii converter =)
13:56
how cool would that be
13:56
<johnny>
that's easy enough i'd think
13:56
<Nubae>
retro ltsp
13:57
<johnny>
with aalib
13:57
<Nubae>
nethack included
13:58
<ogra>
we should default to that
13:58
would save a lot of bugreports
13:58
<Nubae>
hehe
14:02alekibango has quit IRC
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14:07
<Nubae>
does PRINTER_0_TYPE still exist in ltsp 5?
14:07
<ogra>
its ignored
14:07QWK2LRN has joined #ltsp
14:07
<ogra>
the type is determined from the device
14:07
<Nubae>
ah ok
14:16LocutusQWK has quit IRC
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14:27
<vagrantc>
Gadi: you shouldn't need to source ltsp_config for your LDM_USER_ALLOW patch
14:27
Gadi: but otherwise, cool :)
14:29
Gadi: why not make LDM_USER_ALLOW space separated?
14:29
Gadi: and should case the re-setting of LDM_USERNAME ... :)
14:29
<Gadi>
vagrantc: yeah, there are a couple of things in there that I may not need in the latest ldm - but this script I know works
14:29
I figured, better to commit it
14:30
and then change
14:30
so we could revert as needed
14:30
I use comma separated, as that does not require quotes in lts.conf
14:30
<vagrantc>
fair enough
14:31
<Gadi>
in latest ldm, I don't need to set LDM_USERNAME
14:31
<vagrantc>
yeah
14:31
<Gadi>
but, that is for backwards compat
14:31
<vagrantc>
a simple [ -z "$LDM_USERNAME" ] would handle both cases nicely.
14:31
i patched localapps in debian to do that
14:31
<Gadi>
I gave this to a guy on ltsp-discuss last week and it worked for him
14:32
true dat
14:32
I will patch
14:32
<vagrantc>
i should probably patch that upstream
14:32
<ogra>
vagrantc, btw, i patched the ubuntu package to unset CONFIGURE_X ...
14:33
warren, doesnt need that piece either anymore, if debian released we should see that we defaut to that upstream
14:33
<vagrantc>
ogra: unconditionally unset it?
14:34
<ogra>
default to not having it set
14:34
<vagrantc>
ah.
14:34
<ogra>
xorg doesnt use most of the xorg.conf anymore
14:34
i.e. all input and keyboard configs are deliberately ignored by xorg 1.5
14:36* vagrantc wonders how long it takes for patches.ubuntu.com/l/ltsp/ for the latest upload show up
14:36
<Gadi>
what about serial touchscreens?
14:37
that is done thru hal?
14:37
<ogra>
vagrantc, never ... if you are ahead of me
14:37
it will only diff if your upstream version is the same or lower afaik
14:37
Gadi, everything input related is done through hal
14:38
<vagrantc>
ogra: oh.
14:38nubae1 has joined #ltsp
14:38* Gadi wonders how to automagically do stuff with a serial port
14:38
<ogra>
vagrantc, not sure though
14:38Nubae has quit IRC
14:38
<vagrantc>
ogra: it's a good way to see the diff in our packages when they're actually reasonably close in version.
14:38
<ogra>
Gadi, i guess that would need soemthing like an extended inputattach
14:38alkisg has joined #ltsp
14:39
<vagrantc>
ogra: actually, my upstream in experimental is the same. it's actua;lly the same exact tarball for ltsp right now.
14:39
<ogra>
vagrantc, there is nothing beyond commenting the CONFIGURE_X=True setup in ltsp_config atm
14:39
<vagrantc>
ogra: and the previous diff is against an experimental version
14:39
<ogra>
and my change to dh_installinit to make sure the client starts at 25
14:44K_O-Gnom has quit IRC
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14:53
<Gadi>
vagrantc: if you get a free moment, and can let me know if this ldm logs out properly on your test setup, that'd be great: lp:~gideon/ltsp/ldm-trunk-gadi
15:03
<vagrantc>
Gadi: no need to merge back my merge of your patch, unless it includes differences... just for future reference.
15:04
<Gadi>
I'm not sure what that means, but I'll smile and nod, nonetheless
15:04
:)
15:04
<vagrantc>
you re-wrote your own revision history needlessly ...
15:05
<ogra>
he's working on a book :P
15:05
<vagrantc>
Gadi: revision 908 used to be your patch, but now it's my merge of your patch.
15:05jammcq has joined #ltsp
15:05* Gadi just follows the recipe: bzr pull, bzr commit, bzr push
15:05
<Gadi>
:)
15:05
<vagrantc>
yeah, that causes problems.
15:05
<Gadi>
ah
15:06
sorry
15:06
I thought that was the recipe from hackfest
15:06
<vagrantc>
no.
15:06
<johnny>
dberkholz, i can verify now, that the arch version of linux-headers makes it work
15:07
<vagrantc>
Gadi: if you set append_revisions_only = True in ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf it'll prevent you from making those kind of mistakes, hopefully.
15:07
<cliebow>
Gadi:yes smile and nod woeks well for me..
15:08
<Gadi>
vagrantc: added
15:08
now, can I do that recipe?
15:08
<vagrantc>
Gadi: yes, and it'll error out when you're about to do something bad :)
15:09
<Gadi>
hmm... I wish I knew how to do something good
15:09
:)
15:09
<ogra>
do your work in sepratae branches
15:09
one per feature
15:09
<Gadi>
I do
15:09
<vagrantc>
yeah, that's the proper way to do it
15:09
<ogra>
one commit per change
15:09
<Gadi>
right
15:09
I do that
15:09
<ogra>
and only merge it back to the core branch if you are done
15:09
<Gadi>
right
15:09
<vagrantc>
Gadi: this is the same branch that you made the rc.d/I* changes on
15:10jammcq has quit IRC
15:10
<vagrantc>
Gadi: this is a totally unrelated feature ...
15:10jammcq has joined #ltsp
15:10
<Gadi>
ah, right
15:10
ok
15:10
but it was a different commit
15:10
<vagrantc>
indeed.
15:10
<Gadi>
right
15:11
it's just annoying to have a million branches for little experimental things
15:11plamengr has quit IRC
15:11
<Gadi>
but, I suppose I should delete it
15:11
rebranch
15:11
and such
15:11
ok
15:12
<vagrantc>
bzr is kind of stupid with merges when you haven't changed anything ... it rewrites history ... i.e. when i merged revision 908 from your branch, it became a new revision, 908 in ldm-trunk ... then when you pulled ldm-trunk, it re-wrote history and *your* revision 908 became 907.1.1
15:12* Gadi is not very good at keeping house - can you tell?
15:12
<Gadi>
oh
15:12
ok
15:13
<vagrantc>
then when you merged ldm-trunk into your branch, it was like "well, there aren't any real differences, i'll just rewrite history"
15:13
<Gadi>
I thought you were just going to pull that last branch I posted to a separate dir
15:13
not merge with your main
15:13
<vagrantc>
and we all know from sci-fi movies how bad it can be to rewrite history.
15:13
anyways ...
15:14
i'll apply the pkill patch and see what happens.
15:14
<Gadi>
so, I was thinking, if that little change were good, I would go into *my* main and make the change and commit
15:14
<vagrantc>
Gadi: your main?
15:14
<Gadi>
right
15:14
<vagrantc>
i don't understand
15:14
<Gadi>
I have ldm-trunk as a checkout that's golden
15:15
that's upstream
15:15
<vagrantc>
yeah.
15:15
that's good.
15:15
<Gadi>
then, I branched from that ldm-trunk-gadi
15:15
and uploaded that
15:15jammcq has quit IRC
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15:15
<Gadi>
if the pkill thing, say, were good, I would patch ldm-trunk and commit it there
15:15
(ie, not using "bzr merge")
15:16
because it scares me
15:16
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: We are back to where we were on also setup. root has great sound but when we log onto client. we get this message from xsession error file (ALSA lib confmisc.c.560:(snd_determine_driver) could not open control for card 0)
15:16
<Gadi>
:)
15:16
<vagrantc>
it's not so evil to do with branches you don't expect anyone else to use. but it's important to be conscious of what you're doing so you don't end up doing it on one of the -trunk branches
15:16
<Gadi>
vagrantc: right
15:16
<nubae1>
http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/gpl-killed-the-mpaa-star
15:16
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: when you log in as a user from a thin client, open a terminal window and type: gstreamer-properties
15:17
QWK2LRN: go to "Audio output" and set to "ESD" and hit test
15:17
let me know if you hear sound
15:17
<vagrantc>
Gadi: you know, i think the shell process that defines the sentinel will still get caught by pkill -P $PPID
15:18
so it probably still won't run K* scripts.
15:18
<cliebow>
home...!
15:18cliebow has quit IRC
15:18
<Gadi>
vagrantc: at this point I am worried only about dying gracefully, not necessarily being alive for the K* scripts
15:18
<vagrantc>
Gadi: in that case, it's probably a workable patch.
15:18
<Gadi>
well, I want it tested first
15:19
personally, I think it is bad design to rely on K* scripts for anything anyway
15:19
we should always expect a bad ending to a session
15:19
and be able to handle it
15:19
<vagrantc>
rely and have available are two very different things
15:19
<QWK2LRN>
Gad: No sound and Gstreamer quit
15:19The_Code has quit IRC
15:19
<Gadi>
but, we should encourage proper session termination
15:19
<vagrantc>
indeed.
15:20
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: gstreamer died?
15:20
crashed?
15:20
<sbalneav>
ogra: Still about?
15:20jammcq has quit IRC
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15:20
<ogra>
sbalneav, yeah, and venting about work
15:20
whats up
15:21
<sbalneav>
There's an issue with g-p-m and LTSP taking a long time to log out?
15:21
<QWK2LRN>
GADI: ran test but no sound gstreamer quit unexpectantly
15:21
<sbalneav>
Who you venting to?
15:22
<ogra>
only myself
15:22
<sbalneav>
Need someone else to vent to?
15:22
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: at the terminal, type: rpm -qa|grep esd
15:22
and pastebot the results
15:22
<ogra>
and my scripts that costed me a full workday and didnt get me where i need to be now
15:22
<Gadi>
!pastebot
15:22
<ltspbot`>
Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
15:23
<ogra>
sbalneav, i suspect that g-p-m thing is a dbus issue
15:24
<QWK2LRN>
GADI: kdesdk-dev-3..1-2 also kdesdk-3.3.1-2
15:24
<Gadi>
thats it?
15:24
<QWK2LRN>
yes that's all we got
15:25
<Gadi>
try looking for a gstreamer-esd package and an esound-clients package
15:25
(the names may be similar but different)
15:25jammcq has quit IRC
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15:25
<Gadi>
I think you may have uninstalled some necessary packages?
15:25
<johnny>
i'm glad i removed that esound nonsense
15:26
<ogra>
yeah
15:26
its a massive security flaw
15:26
<johnny>
like ogra..
15:26
<ogra>
:P
15:26
<johnny>
hehe :)
15:26* ogra kicks apt-proxy
15:27
<johnny>
it's ok ogra.. you're a swell fellow anyways :)
15:28
<ogra>
i'm only a frustrated looney today
15:29
i hate wasting whole workdays and getting nowhere
15:30jammcq_ has joined #ltsp
15:31
<johnny>
ogra, don't we all
15:32* ogra wipes his whole locl mirror and starts over completely
15:32
<vagrantc>
ogra: i've been using approx lately ...
15:32
<ogra>
it worked the whole day
15:32mikkel has quit IRC
15:32
<ogra>
now that i have fixed the last bug in my script and would get it working, it locks up on on damned package
15:33
so i guess it will be downloading stuff for the next 3-4h
15:33
<Gadi>
where's the new localapps trunk?
15:33
<johnny>
huh?
15:33
did i miss something?
15:33
<Gadi>
didnt that get split out?
15:33
<johnny>
it's in ltsp-trunk still? in /localapps
15:33
<Gadi>
or rearranged?
15:34
<johnny>
it got moved inside the same branch
15:34
<Gadi>
yeah, where is it?
15:34
<ogra>
renamed iirc
15:34
<johnny>
/localapps
15:34
<Gadi>
ltsp-trunk?
15:34
<ogra>
same place
15:34
<johnny>
no.. it used to be /client/xrexecd
15:34
now it's in /localapps
15:34
<ogra>
ah
15:34
well, not in ubuntu :P
15:34
<Gadi>
ah, got it
15:35
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: what do gstreamer-esd and esound-clients do for you?
15:35
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: esound-clients should provide things like: esdplay
15:35* ogra wonders if Gadi is insane enough to still use 4.x anywhere
15:35
<Gadi>
so, at a terminal you can run: esdplay <wav>
15:36jammcq_ has quit IRC
15:36
<Gadi>
ogra: unlike Ubuntu, I cannot abandon my users every 6 mos (ooh...)
15:36
lol
15:36
<QWK2LRN>
We have esdplay and it works on .wmv files
15:36* Gadi hides
15:36
<ogra>
Gadi, so you force your users to use insecure software that has known security holes ?
15:36
or do you patch kernel and xorg for them regulary ?
15:37
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: ok - the gstreamer-esd package should provide gstreamer with the esd plugins
15:38
<QWK2LRN>
would this make sense if it works when logged in as root?
15:38staffencasa has joined #ltsp
15:39
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: when you log in as root, and perform that same gstreamer-properties test, it works?
15:39
<QWK2LRN>
will do it now
15:39
<Gadi>
if so, please pastebot the file: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc.sound
15:40
<QWK2LRN>
sound works great on test when logged as root
15:40
fails alsa
15:40
<Gadi>
as it should
15:40
<QWK2LRN>
failed OSS
15:41
<Gadi>
as it should
15:41
only esd should work
15:41
<QWK2LRN>
works great esd
15:42
is there a way to display permissions for all required files?
15:42jammcq has quit IRC
15:43
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: can you pastebot: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc.sound?
15:43
!pastebot
15:43
<ltspbot`>
Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
15:45
<QWK2LRN>
GADI: will have it to you shortly
15:45* Gadi recalls this issue, but forgets which fix was the right fix
15:45
<Gadi>
:)
15:45jonnor has quit IRC
15:45
<Gadi>
been too long
15:46bobby_C has quit IRC
15:48
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: is pastebot normally slow to connect
15:48
<Gadi>
not for me
15:48
<QWK2LRN>
it is up now
15:50
it is pasted
15:51
Gadi: we have at ltsp.org/4
15:51
<vagrantc>
Gadi: no luck on the pkill
15:51
Gadi: it hangs, just like all the others.
15:52jammcq has joined #ltsp
15:52
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i'll try with a -1, just like the other patch
15:52
<ogra>
Gadi, ltsp.org is down
15:52
QWK2LRN, use a different pastebin for the moment
15:54alkisg has left #ltsp
15:54
<QWK2LRN>
what would you suggest?
15:54
<Gadi>
no, I got it
15:54
ur good
15:54
<vagrantc>
Gadi: looking at the pstree output, it looks like dbus-launch and freinds disassociate from the sshd somehow
15:54
<QWK2LRN>
Thank you!!!
15:54
<vagrantc>
Gadi: they're not children of sshd...
15:55
Gadi: so it's just not going to work as reliably...
15:55
<Gadi>
vagrantc: right - but I was hoping that by killing the children, sshd would end its own life, but I guess not
15:55
<vagrantc>
Gadi: somehow processes started aren't all the children.
15:56
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: if you reboot the terminal and log in as a user, does sound work?
15:56
<QWK2LRN>
No it does not work
15:56
<Gadi>
vagrantc, yeah, but my thinking was this:
15:57
sshd would die once its children are dead
15:57jammcq_ has joined #ltsp
15:57
<Gadi>
and it would die gracefully, with a session_close()
15:57
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: No it does not work as user
15:57
<Gadi>
thereby informing dbus, et al to die
15:57
<ogra>
thats what the kill $PPID was supposed to do
15:57
<vagrantc>
Gadi: alas, no.
15:57
<ogra>
(killing all children)
15:58
<Gadi>
ogra: but kill $PPID kills sshd abruptly and session_close() is not run
15:58
<ogra>
no
15:58
<vagrantc>
Gadi: it seems to get run with openssh 5.1 on debian
15:58
<Gadi>
but, pkill -P does have sshd run session_close()
15:58
<ogra>
it *should* kill x-session-manager
15:58
<vagrantc>
Gadi: even with the kill
15:58
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: let me see if I can find the problem in the email history...
15:58
<ogra>
it worked as long as we called gnome-session directly
15:59
which was only in the first implementation
15:59
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: Thank you very much!!
15:59
<vagrantc>
gnome-session was never called directly, and i have the bzr logs to prove it :P
16:00
<ogra>
vagrantc, it was during teh development release of breezy
16:00
<vagrantc>
ogra: that was GDM's Xsession script
16:00
<ogra>
iirc mdz changed it before release
16:00
<vagrantc>
ogra: and i got them to patch it to use the regular Xsession script
16:01
<ogra>
i know i have used gnome-session directly in ubuntu in the beginning
16:01
right when i took over the packaging it was like that
16:01
<vagrantc>
well, it's not represented in the code.
16:01
<ogra>
no, it was in the package only
16:01
for testing purpose
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16:01
<ogra>
but back then the kill $PPID actually worked
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16:02
<vagrantc>
still does
16:02
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: just out of curiosity, if you copy /root/.esd_auth to a user's home dir and log in as the user, can he play sound?
16:03
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: Thank you we will try that now
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16:03
<ogra>
Gadi, esd had patches to make that work iirc
16:03
<cor3>
hello
16:03
I have a quick question about the new ldm
16:04
I configured x11vnc to fire up as an init script on the client side but it seems the death of X means the death of x11vnc regardless of the -loop option
16:05
what is the official way of adding custom scripts to the ldm startup so they don't get clobbered during an upgrade etc
16:05
?
16:05
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: it seems that for some folks, blowing away the user's gconf directories and having gnome recreate them solved it
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16:06
<Gadi>
cor3: which new ldm?
16:06
<cor3>
I used ltsp <5 previously
16:06
and used gdm
16:06
this time around I used debian + ltsp5
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<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: Thank you we will try that next
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16:07
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: instead of deleting from existing user, try creating a new user
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16:08
<cor3>
I could just hack it into the ldm init but I thought I would ask before being so brutish
16:09
<Gadi>
cor3: ldm-trunk (in bzr) has an init mechanism for ldm's rc.d/ scripts
16:09
moving forward, that would be the way
16:09
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: trying new user now
16:10
<cor3>
ok though it seems the client filesystem is with out that dir even though the init script references it.
16:10
guess a simple create and deposit the script should be enough
16:10
<Gadi>
but, x11vnc also has flags like -forever and -display WAIT:#DISPLAY
16:10
<cor3>
thanks I did see that in the docs but with the dir not there I thought it best to ask
16:10
<Gadi>
*$DISPLAY
16:11
you may want to try these
16:11
<cor3>
I used the forever and loop
16:11
no luck
16:11
WAIT simply tells it to wait until client connect before connecting to X
16:11
<Gadi>
how about: -display WAIT:6
16:11
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: new user has no sound
16:12
<cor3>
tried that too but ctrl+alt+bkspc or logging out results in no x11vnc proc running
16:12
I'll try the ldm rc dir
16:12
thanks
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16:12
<Gadi>
cor3: yeah, you can put it in an I00-x11vnc script
16:12
<ogra>
I ?
16:12
<cor3>
perfect
16:12
thatnks
16:12
have a good day
16:12
<ogra>
what would I be?
16:12
<Gadi>
cor3: btw, the other approach is install inetd in the chroot, and run x11vnc out of inetd
16:13
ogra: init
16:13
<ogra>
Gadi, in what distro is that used yet ?
16:13
<Gadi>
cor3: but you need ldm from ldm-trunk
16:13
<ogra>
ubuntu definately doent have it yet
16:13
<Gadi>
(or maybe vagrantc has it in experimental?)
16:13
<cor3>
ya I initially looked at that but decided an init script with the forever and loop should work
16:13* ogra surely didnt package it
16:13
<cor3>
I am running under debian etch currently
16:14
<ogra>
ugh
16:14
thats old
16:14
<cor3>
anywho I'll make it work
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16:14
<Gadi>
heh
16:14
<ogra>
did that even have ldm2 ?
16:14
:)
16:14
<Gadi>
ogra's lashing out against the world today
16:14
:)
16:16
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: Thank you for your help we will get back online in the morning
16:16
<ogra>
well, its not only that i didnt get where i wanted to be with my work, but also found a grave bug in apt
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16:16
<vagrantc>
i added the rc.d/I* stuff in experimental, yes.
16:16
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: one last thing
16:16
you can try adding "-promiscuous" to the line in rc.sound calling esd with all of the options
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16:17
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: thank you will try now
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16:17
<Gadi>
QWK2LRN: (sorry fo the lack of definitivity - its been a while)
16:18
<ogra>
yeah, and you really shouldnt use ltsp 4
16:19
<Gadi>
yeah - and tuck in your shirt
16:19
:)
16:19
<ogra>
Gadi, i'm serious
16:20
<Gadi>
me, too - no shirt, no shoes, no service
16:20
<ogra>
it has lots and lots of security holes that never were closed
16:20
apart from one kernel update 2 years ago it wousnt touched since 3 years or more
16:21
<Gadi>
and, if he is running ltsp 4 on an enclosed network for a specialized project with no prospect for security exploitation?
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16:22
<ogra>
you know that 90% of the attacks you have come from internal users, right ?
16:22
<Gadi>
on esd... for sure
16:22
I read the memo
16:22
:)
16:22
<ogra>
surely on esd as well
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16:23
<ogra>
esd's hacks are even public all over the web
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16:23
<QWK2LRN>
Gadi: Ty very much will get back in AM
16:23
<Gadi>
he probably cannot get sound on the users when he logs in as a user, because he was hacked - and every time he logs in as a user, a sound is playing on a piano in germany at just the right frquency to collapse a bridge in spain
16:24
<ogra>
:P
16:24
<Gadi>
:D
16:24
yo mama's thin client's so fat...
16:24
<ogra>
Gadi, you know what i mean ... on distros where ltsp5 is available its just insane to use 4.x
16:25
and fc8 definately has a working setup
16:25
<Gadi>
and if my bubbe had wheels she'd be a baby carriage
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16:25
<Gadi>
hehe
16:25
<johnny>
so.. anybody interested in trading work for thin clients? :)
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<b-man>
damn lts-server
16:31
it seems that it had nothing to do with the ldap-server^^
16:31
-that+like
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