IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 March 2010   (all times are UTC)

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02:02
<gnunux>
hi
02:11
<Appiah>
\o
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02:58
<AndyGraybeal>
morning everyone.
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03:17
<AndyGraybeal>
how okay is it to run normal PC's on the thin client network.. or printers?
03:18
<Appiah>
its okay
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03:29
<AndyGraybeal>
thank you Appiah
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03:40
<AndyGraybeal>
i'm in ubuntu 8.10. i would like my terminal clients to reach another network. i've read this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ThinClientHowtoNAT .. i'm scared i might hurt my current setup though. i'm running kvm/libvirt vm's bridged through 192.168.2.200 (internet facing); my terminal clients are hosted off of the 10.0.0.1 interface. currently iptables is not enabled. if i run that iptables command, will i mess up
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04:24
<nosedrum>
Hi all !
04:24
I have a little question
04:25
this morning I have a clients of a ltsp server crashing on boot with a Kernel Panic
04:25
a eth0 problem
04:25
so after some search i put a *complete* ip=xxx parameter there:
04:25
<client-ip>:<server-ip>:<gw-ip>:<netmask>:<hostname>:<device>:<autoconf>
04:26
on /var/lib/tftpboot/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
04:26
and a client boot well
04:26
but my question is
04:26
how fix all clients ?*
04:26
<ogra>
fix your dhcp server
04:27
it worked before ?
04:27
<nosedrum>
yes
04:27
new agency open 2 days ago
04:27
1 server 3 clients
04:27
<ogra>
did you add a new router or something to your network ... i.e. some device or PC that could ship with a running dhcp server ?
04:28
<nosedrum>
ohoh
04:28
<ogra>
the symptoms above sound very much like you are running a second dhcpd
04:28
which isnt so good for netbooting :)
04:28
<nosedrum>
one of my team on site tell me "i have hard reset the bewan router..." for another case
04:29
Thx for idea !
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04:38
<tthorb>
An update on freezing in Karmic on clients with i915:
04:39
No clients have freezed with "acpi = off"
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04:40
<tthorb>
X_DEVICE_OPTION_01 = "\"DRI\" \"false\""
04:40
doesn't matter
04:40
and X_DEVICE_OPTION_02 = "\"AccelMethod\" \"NoAccel\"" doesn't matter either
04:41
But - I cross fingers for stability with acpi=off
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05:09
<AndyGraybeal>
tthorb: i915 is intel video driver?
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05:10
<harshal>
hey, I'm working on implementing kiwi-ltsp for fat client,by following this guide http://tinyurl.com/yggbbz4
05:11
but i can't get the kiwi with aoe service started (kla)
05:11
<ogra>
ask in #kiwi-ltsp
05:11
there are not many people in here knowing about kiwi at all
05:13
<harshal>
ogra: oh alrite, but then noone seems to be online there at most times.. Thnx though..
05:14
<ogra>
sadly suse decided to use kiwi to wrap it around ltsp ... if you have actual ltsp questions we surely can help but the image building is beyond ltsp in this case
05:16
<harshal>
yea i understand tht, but m just stuck with this for the moment.
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05:36
<stgraber>
alkisg: using -c '' was to avoid using two leases per thin client
05:36
<alkisg>
stgraber: but why would that be desirable?
05:37
<stgraber>
because otherwise I need 10000 IPs instead of only 5000 :)
05:37
<alkisg>
Couldn't you configure your server to deal with a standard VCI?
05:37
<stgraber>
that's assuming you can configure the DHCP server ...
05:38
<alkisg>
How about pxelinux.cfg/default? You could put the vci there, with the old code
05:38
i.e. clientid=''
05:38* alkisg has no problem in any way, as he uses proxydhcp, just trying to help with that launchpad bug report...
05:39
<stgraber>
that could work yes
05:39
though I'm suspecting that a lot of people will have the issue for only a few using Windows dhcp ...
05:40
<alkisg>
What I don't understand is *why* sending '' is saving the second lease
05:40
Sounds like a dhcp bug, not a feature...
05:40
*dhcp3-server
05:40
Shouldn't we send PXEClient for that?
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05:40
<stgraber>
I can probably poke the guy who did the code analysis of udhcpc at Revolution Linux
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05:41
<stgraber>
(once he's awake ;))
05:41
<alkisg>
Heh
05:42
Well I guess defaulting to '' and giving the windows users the possibility to change it from either their windows config or with pxelinux.cfg/default, would suffice as well
05:43
<stgraber>
I'll be in the air and then on the train for the next few hours, you can poke mgariepy about that as he's the one who first noticed the issue and he's working with both Linux and Windows DHCP.
05:43
<alkisg>
OK. Have a nice trip.
05:43
<stgraber>
He'll also be able to ping Julien at Revolution Linux to know more about what was wrong in udhcpc
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06:11
<tthorb>
AndyGraybeal: Yes, it's the intel driver on clients with 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]
06:12
I have 10 clients like that, and users got randomly freezed... (but not me(!))
06:13
But - I'll wait a couple of days before celebration!
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07:52
<_UsUrPeR_>
morning all
07:53
has anybody attempted to use Google Chromium as a localapp yet?
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08:59
<AndyGraybeal>
tthorb_: :)
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09:00
<JuanMarquez>
i need build image ltsp client kernel 386 NOT generic, tell me more?
09:02
<AndyGraybeal>
--arch i386 ... yes?
09:02
i'm new here.. so ignore me.
09:03
<ogra>
-generic is x86
09:03
(in ubuntu at least)
09:04
<JuanMarquez>
not
09:04
NOT kernel generic
09:04
kernel 386
09:04
linux-image-2.6.31-14-386
09:05
Not linux-image-2.6-31-14-generic
09:06
<ogra>
right, build with --arch i386 (which will create an image with -generic kernel) then install the -i386 kernel inside the chroot and run ltsp-update-image, ltsp-update-kernels
09:06
<JuanMarquez>
mmm ok
09:06
i other problem
09:07
<ogra>
why do you explicitly need i386 ?
09:07
do you have actual i386 clients ?
09:07
(-generic supports everythying upwards from pentium 2)
09:07
<JuanMarquez>
yes
09:08
<ogra>
(-i386 is actuially 486)
09:08
<JuanMarquez>
i pentium 2, and performance is very low
09:09
ltsp with ubuntu hardy is more speed
09:09
<ogra>
how much ram ?
09:09
<JuanMarquez>
4Gb
09:09
<ogra>
in the clients ?
09:10
<JuanMarquez>
not the client onli 32Mb ram ist thing client hardware
09:10
4GB in the Server
09:10
<ogra>
32MB isnt enough
09:10
<JuanMarquez>
only 5 client for LTSP
09:11
mmmm back to the version Ubuntu jejje
09:11
in Hardy work perfect
09:12
32Mb work in Ubuntu Jaunty LTPS?????
09:12
LTSP??
09:13
<ogra>
minimum (even for hardy) was always 48MB (better 64) if your clients boot with 32 you are simply lucky
09:14
<JuanMarquez>
minimum for jaunty and karmic????
09:15
<AndyGraybeal>
ogra, so i should have done --arch generic ?
09:15
<ogra>
AndyGraybeal, no
09:15
-generic is the default name of the i386 *and* amd64 kernel
09:16
the kernel works on both arches
09:16
--arch tells ltsp-build-client which userspace to use with it
09:16
<AndyGraybeal>
ah okay
09:16
<JuanMarquez>
generic = 386, AMD, AMD64, Pentium, celeron, Duron, Turion etc
09:17
<ogra>
right
09:17
<JuanMarquez>
and kernel-image-386 only pentium mmx, 2, 3 and AMD k5
09:18
<ogra>
-generic is compiled with the 586 instruction set though ... so if you have older HW than pentium II it might have problems
09:18
<JuanMarquez>
386 != i386
09:18
<ogra>
right
09:18
it uses the 486 instruction set
09:19
<AndyGraybeal>
does anyone use wine and adobe acrobat with LTSP?
09:19
<ogra>
i think some people do, but you need to be careful using wine
09:19
since you can easily break licensing
09:19
<AndyGraybeal>
reader i mean
09:19
<ogra>
ah, reader, that shouldnt have license issues
09:20
<AndyGraybeal>
yea, bad habit
09:20
has anyone done the localapps with wine and acrobat reader?
09:21
<ogra>
no idea, but there is certainly no reason it shouldnt work
09:21
<AndyGraybeal>
k
09:21
<ogra>
will just bloat your images :) wine pulls in a lot of dependencies
09:22
<AndyGraybeal>
aah thank you for saying that.
09:22
i wonder how firefox integration and wine/acrobat reader work
09:23
maybe i'm confused.. *looks into acroread*
09:25
<johnny>
you have to install it per user
09:25
each copy of acrobat
09:25
as in.. in each user's ~/.wine/drive_c directory
09:29
<AndyGraybeal>
ok thank you
09:29
evilness :)
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09:35
<JuanMarquez>
man, minimal RAM for LTSP in Ubuntu Jaunty?
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09:45
<Appiah>
JuanMarquez: server? or client?
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09:52
<Gadi>
alkisg: ping
09:53
<alkisg>
Hey Gadi
09:53
<Gadi>
hey - I think I found a bug, but want to confirm with you
09:53
when you specify IPAPPEND 3, do you need to also specify the nbdroot?
09:53
because it drops me to an initramfs shell saying it cannot connect to the nbd server
09:54
<alkisg>
IPAPPEND 3 uses the dhcp server as the nbd server
09:54
<Gadi>
evidently not
09:54
<alkisg>
?
09:54
<Gadi>
or not in my case
09:54
<alkisg>
What do you get with cat /proc/cmdline ?
09:55
<Gadi>
I get the correct ip info
09:55
but it dropped me to an initramfs shell
09:55
(this is in lucid, btw)
09:55
<alkisg>
Weird
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09:56
<Gadi>
and with dhcp3-server not dnsmasq
09:56
<alkisg>
So you have an ip=x:x:x:server: in /proc/cmdline with the correct server there, and it's using what, another server?
09:57
What do you have in /tmp/net-eth0.conf ?
09:58
And, is that message from nbd proxy or from nbd client? I.e. do you have any nbd-clients running when you are dropped to the initramfs prompt?
09:58
<Gadi>
hmm.. ROOTSERVER is correct in the tmp file
09:59
<alkisg>
And, if you specify nbdroot it works?!!
09:59
<Gadi>
havent tried that yet
09:59
let me give a go again
09:59
<alkisg>
Ah, ok, that would be too weird
09:59
<Gadi>
and see what happens
09:59
<alkisg>
Now it sounds like an nbd proxy problem
10:00
<Gadi>
hmm.. Error: Server closed connection
10:00
let me see whats up there...
10:00
<ogra>
evil server
10:02
<sbalneav>
Morning all
10:03
<alkisg>
hi ogra, sbalneav
10:03
<ogra>
hey
10:03
<Gadi>
hmm... certainly is an evil server
10:05
<alkisg>
Gadi, check the usual stuff, if nbd server is running, if the port is correct, if the image file is actually there, and try nbd-client manually from the initramfs prompt.
10:06
<Gadi>
well, if I run nbd-proxy and nbd-client manually from the initramfs prompt it works - perhaps we need to explicitly modprobe nbd to make sure the module is present
10:06
might be a race condition
10:06
<alkisg>
I think we already do that
10:07
<Gadi>
where?
10:07
in ltsp_nbd?
10:07
<alkisg>
Maybe, let me look...
10:07
<Gadi>
not in mine
10:08* Gadi tries to add it
10:08
<alkisg>
ltsp-init-common?
10:08
Hmm that's too late
10:08
There's another one somewhere...
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10:10
<alkisg>
Where was that initramfs module conf file... where we called a function to load the modules...
10:11
<Gadi>
in hooks?
10:11
<alkisg>
Yeah, ltsp_nbd in hooks
10:11
force_load nbd
10:11
<Gadi>
I think that modprobe may happen too late (not sure)
10:11
we'll see...
10:14
<AndyGraybeal>
if i run firefox with localapps, and then at sometime in the future update the image, will i lose all the info in firefox?
10:15
like, bookmarks and other settings?
10:15
like the 'privacy' stuff?
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10:16
<alkisg>
No, your firefox settings are in /home/username/.mozilla
10:16
<AndyGraybeal>
thank you
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10:21
<Gadi>
alkisg: ok, im pretty sure it is an nbd-proxy thing
10:21
seems nbd-proxy is dying
10:21
<alkisg>
Gadi: so if you remove it, it boots OK?
10:21
(modify 2 lines in ltsp_nbd)
10:22
<Gadi>
I will to be sure
10:23
<johnny>
all of the sudden yesterday my machines started getting the lts.conf from the /var/lib/tftpboot dir .. causing difficulty for all :(
10:23
for 2 years i've had the lts.conf in the chroot /etc/lts.conf
10:23
yesterday it started magically working and my old outdated file was used..
10:24
well.. at least it finally works
10:24
<ogra>
you broke the breakage !
10:24
<alkisg>
Gadi, btw, when you use ipappend 3 you miss any dhcp info (like dns server etc) - to get it you'd also need autoconf=dhcp
10:26
<Gadi>
weird
10:26
I take that back
10:26
if I just use nbd-client I get an error: no route to host
10:26
<alkisg>
Woah
10:26
But it works if you do it from the initramfs prompt?
10:27
<Gadi>
yeah
10:27
so something's not coming up in time or something
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10:27
<alkisg>
Try a big sleep there
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10:45
<alkisg>
johnny: was that your problem? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/238010 - I committed a fix for that 2 weeks ago
10:53
<johnny>
yep
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10:57
<shogunx>
hi all. is anyone aware of a netcafe prepaid timer style billing system that works with ltsp?
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11:00
<tthorb_>
\q
11:00tthorb_ has quit IRC
11:01
<CAN-o-SPAM>
shogunx: i know theres plenty of packages out there, not sure of their ability to be successful in an ltsp environment
11:02
<shogunx>
most rely on an independent host trying to connect through a router running a captive portal, but that is obviously not the case with ltsp
11:04
<AndyGraybeal>
when i run ltsp-localapps firefox, it doesn't see my bookmarks in /home/mariposa/.mozilla/firefox/.... but when i open up firefox over the network it sees the bookmarks just fine -- is there something i'm missing?
11:04
<JuanMarquez>
Appiah, in client
11:04
<Gadi>
alkisg: so, I put a while loop in there to try nbd-client 10 times before giving up. First try it errors, second try it works and goes through
11:04
alkisg: so, must be some kind of timing thing
11:04
<alkisg>
Gadi: did it work with sleep?
11:04
<Gadi>
this was better than sleep
11:05
because sleep is a guess
11:05
<alkisg>
I think calling nbd-client multiple times can cause problems
11:05
<Gadi>
only if it fails
11:05
once it connects, it goes through
11:05
<alkisg>
I tried to do that when I had problems with nbd-proxy, but stgraber's programmers told me not to do that
11:06
<Gadi>
not to call nbd-proxy more than once or not to call nbd-client more than once?
11:06
<alkisg>
Not sure, it's been a long time :) Let me look at the logs...
11:07
<Gadi>
well, I started down this road to see if I could eliminate the udhcpc call to shave time off the boot
11:07
adding a sleep is counterproductive
11:07
:)
11:08
<alkisg>
Yeah it was the proxy
11:09
No the sleep would be just to verify that it's a race condition, and then we could focus on why nbd isn't loaded at this point.
11:09
It wouldn't be a solution, just a means for debugging...
11:09
<Gadi>
I think nbd is loaded
11:09
I dont think thats the problem
11:09
but, let me verify
11:10
(because when I added a modprobe nbd it had no effect)
11:10
<alkisg>
Then what? Network not ready yet?
11:11
<Gadi>
network is ready
11:11
I dump ifconfig and ip route before the call
11:11
and it is definitely sourcing /tmp/net-eth0
11:12
<alkisg>
Did you completely remove the nbd-proxy call? Or are you trying the nbd-client localhost many times?
11:14
Gadi, if you still have nbd-proxy there, do ping stgraber about it. I had a similar problem in vbox where calling it two times worked around it, and his developers fixed nbd-proxy and now it works OK for me - but I think another, more proper fix was expected - maybe you're affected by that one
11:19
<Gadi>
this is just nbd-client
11:20
without nbd-proxy
11:20
<alkisg>
Mhm...
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11:21
<Gadi>
but maybe the bug they tried to squash in nbd-proxy was not an nbd-proxy bug but a timing thing
11:21
let me try an nc call
11:23
hmm... no nc
11:23
okey dokey
11:26
<AndyGraybeal>
i said something wrong : when i run ltsp-localapps firefox; my bookmarks don't work, when i run regular firefox my bookmarks are fine, am i doing someting wrong?
11:29
<Gadi>
alkisg: so, this patch works for me - I don't see the harm of trying a second time if it fails the first time - especially if it makes it work
11:30
<alkisg>
Gadi, but how are you going to push it upstream without removing nbd-proxy? Or are you going to try nbd-proxy multiple times?
11:30
<Gadi>
I just did it with nbd-proxy
11:30
basically, nbd-proxy exits when bd-client fails
11:30
so I run nbd-proxy a second time and nbd-client a second time
11:31
and it all works great
11:31
<alkisg>
OK. No problem from me - but I'd leave a "#TODO: find out why it isn't working on the first try" there ;)
11:32
<Gadi>
yeah - btw just tested without the IPAPPEND and it only does it once as is the current behavior
11:33
it must be some networking module that is not up yet
11:33
maybe af_packet?
11:34* alkisg has no clues about modules - the last remotely related thing I did was a mouse driver in assembly in the dos days :D
11:35
<AndyGraybeal>
okay, so now it is working -- i have no idea.
11:35
i dont' think i did anything,.
11:37
so i need to rebuild my image everytime i change my lts.conf ?
11:38
<alkisg>
Gadi: so, without IPAPPEND it works for you, and with IPAPPEND you need that hack?
11:38
<Gadi>
alkisg: yup
11:40
<alkisg>
Gadi: does it work if you purge udhcp from the chroot, but leave IPAPPEND 3, so that ipconfig handles it (and not premount)?
11:40
<Gadi>
one sec
11:40
trying something
11:40* alkisg thinks init-premount is too early, we need to move the udhcp hook to configure_networking...
11:41
<Gadi>
alkisg: this problem occurs when udhcpc does NOT run
11:41
:)
11:42
<alkisg>
Gadi, yes, but the static ip address is handled from the udhcp script, and not from configure_networking, like it used to do
11:43
Gadi, all the sleeps in the udhcp script are there because it's in the wrong place - it runs too early...
11:43
<Gadi>
ah, I see
11:43
well, it wasnt af_packet
11:43
:)
11:44
<alkisg>
It was put there as a "test drive" in karmic, but now that we verified that it mostly works, we should move it to configure_networking
11:44
<Gadi>
isnt configure_networking in functions?
11:44
<alkisg>
Yup, that was the problem, no hooks there
11:44
<Gadi>
(or do you mean call it as a script instead of configure_networking)
11:45* Gadi is not sure we can mess with functions
11:45
<alkisg>
configure_networking() { if udhcp is installed; then run the script; else continue with the existing ipconfig-based code }
11:46
That would also save us from all the sleeps and race problems
11:46
<Gadi>
I think we need: if udhcp installed { run it} else {configure_networking }
11:46
bec I think functions is part of initramfs-tools
11:46
<alkisg>
OK - I haven't looked at that part of the code recently...
11:47
<Gadi>
also, it would be nice if we didnt do sleeps but if we did retries
11:47
<alkisg>
If it was moved in the proper place, I don't think even retries would be needed
11:47
The networking components would be up, so we'd be free to use them without checking
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12:41
<nubae>
wow, I was sure ltsplogbot would have died by now...
12:43
<AndyGraybeal>
is it best to run rdp client as a localapp or doesn't matter?
12:45
<JuanMarquez>
i need in mi client LTSP Karmic linux-image-2.6.31-14-386 (not linux.image-2.6.31-14-generic), how to????
12:45
<nubae>
!doc
12:45
<ltspbot`>
nubae: Error: "doc" is not a valid command.
12:45
<nubae>
!docs
12:45
<ltspbot`>
nubae: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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12:50
<JuanMarquez>
i know
12:51
vale me voy un xubuntu dapper a ver jejeje
12:51
supongo que con xubuntu puedo instalar la suit edubuntu igual
12:52
es una prueba que jamas he realizado
12:56
<nubae>
creo que no... edubuntu es Gnome solo
12:56
puede ser que tambien han hecho algo ya para kde
12:56
pero xubuntu lo dudo mucho
12:59
<JuanMarquez>
ok
13:00
nubae, en pocas palabras hay tecnicas? para usar un kernel 386 (no generic) en clientes LTSP?
13:00
nubae, tengo entendido que linux-image-386 tiene mejor performance para maquinas P2
13:00
Pentium 2
13:01
<nubae>
si, se puede
13:01
yo usaria xubuntu ltsp aunque no sea edubuntu
13:02
siempre puedes instalar los paquetes educativos despues
13:02
<JuanMarquez>
eso
13:05
nubae tengo una red 1 server + 5 clientes todo con LTSP, pero en momentos los equipos se ponian lentos, el server es Hardy 2GB RAM P dual 3Ghz HDD SATA, los clientes P2 450Mhz y 32MB Ram
13:06
no puedo hacer mas cambios al Hardware, que me Recomiendas para el Server?
13:06
<nubae>
es muy poca ram, si puedes, pon le algo mas, aunque sea solo 32 m
13:06
<JuanMarquez>
Xubuntu 6 o 7 o 8 o 9?
13:07
o Ubuntu?
13:07
<nubae>
con clientes asi, el server puede ser bastante normalito, es decir no tiene que ser nada grande
13:08
intenta con una version nueva, han hecho muchos cambios para que vaya bien en equipos antiguos
13:14
<JuanMarquez>
nubae, es que ese es mi problema actual
13:15
instale Karmic 64bit y tambien 32Bit, las maquinas clientes ninguna arranco solo 1 que tiene 128 de RAM, alli pense que las maquinas con 32Mb de ram no eran suficientes
13:16
<nubae>
creo que tienes razon, ltsp necesitara 64m
13:16
<JuanMarquez>
ahora quiero esperimentar si puedo cambiar el kernel para las clientes colocando uno para maquinas antiguas
13:17
<nubae>
es bueno camino, intenta lo
13:17
<JuanMarquez>
ya que con Hardy todo funciona perfecto asi con los 32Bm
13:17
pero no lo logro
13:18
cambio mi chroot a /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update y bajo linux-image-386 pero no se como dejar ese kernel por default
13:21
<nubae>
mira en /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
13:22
las imagenes estan alli bajo images creo
13:22
y el fichero de arranque tambien esta en una de esas carpetas... lo puedes editar para reflejar el nuevo kernel
13:25
<JuanMarquez>
ok
13:25
lo intente pero voy a mirar nuevamente ya que tengo cabeza mas relajada
13:26
nubae, porque no tenemos #ltsp-es ?
13:26
yo tambien podria dar algo de soporte
13:28
nubae, de tftp cual es el achivo a modificar?
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13:51
<JuanMarquez>
i can generate Ubuntu Hardy image in Ubuntu LTSP Karmic server?????????
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13:52
<alkisg>
JuanMarquez: did your 32 MB clients really boot with hardy? I think I've tried with 48 ram and it took 15 minutes to boot...
13:53
<JuanMarquez>
in hardy my clients 32Mb RAM, boot in 20 Sec
13:53
<alkisg>
With LTSP?
13:54
<JuanMarquez>
in Karmic not boot, only one client 64MB
13:54
yes clients LTSP
13:54* alkisg finds it hard to believe that... :-/
13:55
<JuanMarquez>
13:55
and work perfect
13:56
32Mb, 450Mhz P2, Board Intel
13:56
<alkisg>
I think that was left there from the LTSP 4.2 days... and also it never worked for me with 32 MB RAM... but ok, if you say so, it is so.
13:57
<JuanMarquez>
not 5.0.x in Ubuntu hardy and intrepid WORK
13:57
sorry "not"!! jeje,, in hardy and intrepid work (ltsp 5.0xx)
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14:20
<JuanMarquez>
alkisg, can generate image hardy client, in karmic server ltsp?
14:23
<johnny>
why would you want to do that?
14:23
it seems unlikely that it would work
14:23
and lots of important fixes have gone in since hardy
14:29
<alkisg>
JuanMarquez: do you still have that magic hardy installation that works with only 32mb ram? If so, you could just copy the image from there.
14:29
I.e. /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
14:32
JuanMarquez: you *might* be able to use ltsp-build-client --dist hardy, but I've never done that.
14:32
<JuanMarquez>
only copy image? and other images can be? xubuntu etc?
14:32
<alkisg>
xubuntu is on the server, not on the iamge
14:32
image
14:35
<JuanMarquez>
alkisg, ltsp-build-client --dist hardy is run, i wait, jejejej thsk
14:35
thks
14:39
<Gadi>
alkisg: Im getting to be one of those old dogs that cant learn new tricks
14:39
<alkisg>
Gadi: hmm?
14:40
<Gadi>
so, if my lucid VM was shutdown abruptly, and now it comes up with a cryptic message from mountall
14:40
and the / fs is mounted read only
14:40
once upon a time I knew how to fix such things
14:40
:)
14:40
<alkisg>
Ah :)
14:40
Try the recovery option from grub first, to fsck /
14:40
If that doesn't work, boot from a live cd and fsck /
14:41
*fsck /dev/sdaX
14:41
<Gadi>
yup yup
14:41
tried that
14:41
says its clean
14:41
<alkisg>
Oooh
14:41
<Gadi>
of course, this is my first time with ext4
14:41
<alkisg>
I guess it's #ubuntu+1 time for you :)
14:41
<Gadi>
*sigh*
14:42
ah, to be *that guy*
14:42
<alkisg>
C'mon now don't by shy :)
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14:43
<alkisg>
Gadi, what's the exact message from mountall?
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14:47
<markit>
hi, I've kubuntu 9.10 and ltsp 5.2. I'm a bit perplexed because pc that boot fine with k/ubuntu 9.1, don't work well if booted with ltsp as clients
14:48
I'm trying to boot an acer netbook, but hangs at the screen with the ubuntu symbol
14:48
(after kernel load, before login screen)
14:48
<alkisg>
Try to remove "quiet splash" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default to see any error messages
14:48
<markit>
any clue about how troubleshooting? a different client boots fine (so server should be ok)
14:48
alkisg: thanks, let's try
14:49
alkisg: btw, I had problems with yashi atom thin client with 5.2 from debian sid, now is ok with 5.2 from ubuntu
14:50
<Gadi>
alkisg: just a general error mounting filesystems
14:51
<alkisg>
Ugh. OK, no clue on that.
14:52
<markit>
alkisg: do I have to rebuild something after the change? do you know if "#" is for comments in that file?
14:52
<alkisg>
You don't need to rebuild anything.
14:53
Yes, # stand for comments
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14:54
<markit>
mm complex output, I can read the last lines, a call trace with panic
14:54
<alkisg>
Maybe network module related?
14:55
<markit>
how can I tell? it has dowloaded the kernel fine and was during a lot of initialization
14:55
seems video related, but maybe is something that is a consequence of previous panic
14:56
if I boot from hd, I have the same kernel AFAIR, that works fine (2.6.31-19-generic)
14:57
also, I've tried a eeebook, that works fine with KDE4 if boot from hd, but "returns to login screen after spash screen" if boots from ltsp
14:57
I'm really puzzled before of this.. I mean, I can't tell if a thin client will work with ltsp
14:58
even if is working with the "same" os and desktop manager
14:58
<alkisg>
What does "returns to login screen after spash screen" mean exactly? Do you get to enter a username/password?
14:59
<markit>
yes, I enter username/password, then as far as I remember screen becomes black, then the regular kde4 blue background with bubbles
14:59
the splash screen with the animation
14:59
and when I should see the desktop, I return to ltsp login screen
14:59
(the orange one)
15:00
I've not composite enabled
15:00
<alkisg>
.xsession-errors would help you there
15:00
<markit>
alkisg: I've not that client here, I've at work, will try tomorrow, thanks for the tip
15:01
<alkisg>
markit: also, generally, gnome is more tested for ltsp
15:01
<markit>
this is unfortunate :(
15:02
alkisg: but isn't ltsp providing the same kernel and xorg as regular kubuntu?
15:02
<alkisg>
I don't mean that kde doesn't work with ltsp - it's just that gnome is more tested
15:02
<markit>
alkisg: yes, I understand :)
15:02
but since I'm not a guru, troubleshooting specific kde problems would be a nightmare for me
15:03
<alkisg>
markit: it might e.g. be missing some firmware package for your network card, I don't know, I'm not good with modules...
15:03
<markit>
afair, there is a way to log on the server
15:03
will it work even if crashes after 5 seconds?
15:04
alkisg: mmm but there are only two packages, the kernel and the new free-firmware or something like that
15:04
so don't understand how should it miss anything
15:04
<alkisg>
Uploading a photo of the kernel crash might help people give you answers on that.
15:05
Also, lspci/lsmod etc would help, when ran from the working system
15:05Eghie`afk is now known as Eghie
15:07
<markit>
# Mobile Intel 945GSE Express
15:07
<alkisg>
And network?
15:07
<markit>
alkisg: I should take a video, not only a photo, some messages are lost scrolling
15:08
ok, let me boot regulary and see
15:09
Ethernet controller: Attansic Technology Corp. Atheros AR8132 / L1c Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (rev c0)
15:09
(but works only at 100Mbps)
15:10
http://www.pastebin.ca/1819920
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15:15
<markit>
alkisg: do I have to try to produce a photo, or is not something you can manage?
15:16
I mean, are you waiting my photo or is a situation you give up?
15:16
<alkisg>
markit: no, as I said I'm not good with modules, so I don't think I can help you with that...
15:17
<markit>
alkisg: ok, thanks a lot anyway :))
15:17
alkisg: but how is that that ltsp client behaves different than "regular" disto in many aspects?
15:17
i.e. render kde4 for some video board, or manage lan nic, or these kernel panics
15:37
<highvoltage>
I vaguely remember seeing some references to discussions on ltsp-light a while back
15:37
anyone know something about it?
15:42
<alkisg>
Someone asking about a lighter version of ltsp, and the devs replying that they don't want to go back to the ltsp 4.2 days? :)
15:43
I don't think that anything came out of that thread...
15:43
<highvoltage>
ok thanks alkisg
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15:56
<markit>
alkisg: "small" additional problem :) I've read in 5.2 blog about blazing fast boot for Lucid
15:57
I've tried to build a client for lucid, but was the same speed as for karmic
15:57
the client spends some time with dhcp
15:57
and also wastes after entering username and password (password verification phase)
15:57
is there something wrong in my setup?
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16:13
<markit>
mmm booting with your gpxe 1.0 instead of pxe rom of the nic, is almost immediate in getting ip and loading kernel
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21:47
<JeffATL>
I've gotten the ltsp overlay installed on gentoo but i'm a loss as to where to go next for docs
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22:08
<johnny>
JeffATL, it's on the gentoo-wiki site i think..
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22:23
<JeffATL>
johnny: looks like it, thanks
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23:08
<pyite>
hello
23:09
We are a new startup company and we are looking to find some cheap desktops to deploy. We've been looking at this project for a while and I think we're ready to take the plunge. However, I am a bit concerned that our software won't work properly on LTSP... Maybe someone can help me analyze our requirements better. I googled for a while but am not quite sure I "get it"
23:10
I am of the belief that LTSP, aside from providing virtual terminals, can provide virtualized desktop environments, too? Is that correct? We're looking to let each of our engineers install their own IDE environment (NetBeans) and their own copies of Apache, MySQL, etc... Will this work with LTSP or am I misunderstanding it's purpose?
23:26pyite has left #ltsp
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23:31
<pyite>
i guess all are sleeping
23:33
<johnny>
hmm?
23:33
yeah.. most are
23:34
<pyite>
:)
23:34
<johnny>
well.. i don't see why they would install their own copies of netbeans?
23:34
wouldn't one copy work?
23:34
with each having a user account?
23:34
<pyite>
I guess, I'm lacking an understanding of how this operates
23:34
one copy would be fine for NetBeans
23:34
not so fine for Apache / MySQL
23:34
they need their own of that
23:34
<johnny>
you all log into one machine
23:34
by default anyways..
23:34
<pyite>
I mean I guess I could make virtualhosts and what not
23:34
<johnny>
would they really need their own copy of mysql/apache?
23:35
<pyite>
sorta
23:35
because they will need xdebug
23:35
i don't know that xdebug will play so nicely with multiple people using it at the same time
23:35
<johnny>
i think that would still work ok
23:35
<pyite>
really?
23:35
ok...
23:35
<johnny>
i think it does..
23:35
<pyite>
interesting
23:35
<johnny>
but i'm not 100% sure
23:35
<pyite>
:)
23:35
<johnny>
you can try it with a standard desktop
23:35
<pyite>
well i think I will just test this out, if these trial evals are really free
23:35
<johnny>
well xdebug is free anyways..
23:35
<pyite>
can I trial it somehow on my desktop? without wiping my current OS ?
23:35
<johnny>
why netbeans?
23:36
why not pdt?
23:36
<pyite>
cause we like NetBeans :)
23:36
<johnny>
or zend editor
23:36
pdt is completely free
23:36
no trial
23:36
<pyite>
zend has been slowwww and actually NetBeans xdebug integration is better imho
23:36
<johnny>
needed
23:36
<pyite>
re: trial i was referring to LTSP disklessworkstations (the hardware)
23:36
<johnny>
ah.. i don't know much about their hardware
23:36
<pyite>
the other thing will be that each person needs a copy of FreeSWITCH
23:36
<johnny>
never used it
23:36
<pyite>
so again, all these issues ;)
23:36
<johnny>
why?
23:37
<pyite>
cause they will be coding software for it, and you shouldn't disrupt someone else's work from a reboot or a reconfigure
23:37
<johnny>
ah yes
23:37
<pyite>
plus they will end up on different versions
23:37
one on the stable
23:37
one on SVN trunk
23:37
etc etc
23:37
<johnny>
well.. you'd have to make it use different ports or whatever as necessary
23:37
you could install virtual box or whatever
23:37
<pyite>
well that's what i'm trying to understand though
23:37
<johnny>
and have each user log into their own vbox instance
23:37
<pyite>
is LTSP more like virtualization?
23:37
<johnny>
no
23:38
it's not virtualization at all
23:38
<pyite>
is it just like having extra TTY terminals?
23:38
on a hardware box?
23:38
<johnny>
extra X terminals
23:38
<pyite>
i'm just confused on what it's really doing "under the hood"
23:38
ahh yes X terminals ;) thank you for correcting
23:38
<johnny>
ltsp is just glue on top of standard unix tools
23:38
<pyite>
but I think you know where my clarification is needed from my questions :)
23:38
<johnny>
each machine netboots
23:38
from that central server
23:39
and logs in via ssh
23:39
and gets a graphical terminal
23:39
or even just boot machines that run rdesktop
23:39
<pyite>
so if that's the case
23:39
<johnny>
for rdp on windows termianl servers
23:39
<pyite>
why do some of the diskless workstation hardware devices have PCI slots?
23:39
just for video cards?
23:39
<johnny>
i guess.. i have no idea
23:40
<pyite>
ok...
23:40
<johnny>
this isn't a diskless workstations support forum or anything
23:40
<pyite>
this is helpful, thanks :)
23:40
<johnny>
i just use regular old desktops
23:40
that have no harddrives
23:40
<pyite>
hmmm... you think I can combine VirtualBox w/ LTSP somewhat transparently? so the users login to their "own" machine? I have a pretty beefy server...
23:40
<johnny>
most people do
23:40
well sure..
23:40
<pyite>
really?
23:40
cause that seems pretty interesting...
23:40
<johnny>
almost anything that works for a user logging into their linux distro.. works on ltsp
23:41
so.. if you had an ubuntu/debian/fedora machine and set it up so it would start a virtual machine on login
23:41
then it would work on ltsp
23:41
<pyite>
hmmm
23:42
sorry if this is a dumb question
23:42
would ltsp run inside the VM then?
23:42
and that user would connect to it?
23:42
<johnny>
no
23:42
<pyite>
or does LTSP run on the host
23:42
<johnny>
mostly on the host
23:42
<pyite>
and then the user logs into "their" VM from "their" X window
23:42
or X term
23:42
<johnny>
sure
23:42
you can run ltsp in a vm..
23:42
but i don't see why you would.. unless you have some huge rack of blades or somethin
23:43
<pyite>
ok
23:43
interesting
23:43
can I ask, what type of "old" computers do you use?
23:43
<johnny>
cuz then you'd be running vms for your users inside of a vm
23:43
<pyite>
I have a few I am about to toss that I'm assuming are too old to use..
23:43
<johnny>
whatever we could get donated :)
23:43
how old?
23:43
<pyite>
how old are we talking?
23:43
yeah
23:43
<johnny>
you tell me
23:43
<pyite>
like 256MB 1ghz? :)
23:43
Apple IIgs?
23:43
<johnny>
sure
23:43
<pyite>
;)
23:43
<johnny>
the first is reasonable
23:43
pretty good really
23:44
<pyite>
lol oh come on, ProDOS is pretty flexible ;)
23:44
so seriously though, you've had reasonable success w/ 256MB 1ghz CPUs? people don't complain about speed/etc?
23:44
<johnny>
altho people who run flash stuff all the time tend to want machines with 512mb ram.. so they can run firefox + flash localy to the machine
23:44
<pyite>
I wonder what your applications are...
23:44
got it
23:44
<johnny>
the speed of the client machine is not very relevant unless you're running some apps locally
23:45
the minimum of ram is something like 96mb..
23:45
mostly that affects boot speed more than anything
23:45
as the server does everything else
23:45
!docs
23:45
<ltspbot`>
johnny: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
23:45
<johnny>
that talks about minimum specs
23:45
flash is actually a serious killer of machines..
23:46
i just bumped my machines so i could run a fat client setup
23:46
gave them 512mb ram so ican run firefox + flash locally and not worry about speed
23:46
or rather.. them running out of ram
23:46
perhaps some day.. adobe will fix flash..
23:47
<pyite>
I'm still a bit confused
23:47
earlier you said it's just an extension of an X window
23:48
<johnny>
it is
23:48
<pyite>
wouldn't flash be running on the server?
23:48
<johnny>
local apps..
23:48
<pyite>
so you can run apps locally...
23:48
<johnny>
you can choose to run some apps local to the machiene
23:48
<pyite>
does the disk/storage still stay on the wire/network ?
23:48
<johnny>
some or all
23:48
yes
23:48
<pyite>
via an nfs mount ?
23:48
<johnny>
altho it can use local hard drives..
23:48
nfs or nbd
23:48
<pyite>
hmmm
23:48
<johnny>
ubuntu uses nbd
23:48
and for local apps mounts /home nfs
23:48
the rootfs is nbd
23:48
<pyite>
all your answers are "it can" or "either or" it seems... i am getting the feeling this is pretty flexible
23:48
<johnny>
well yes.. unix is flexible isn't it? :)
23:48
<pyite>
sometimes :)
23:49
if you know which config file to edit lol
23:49
<johnny>
ltsp is just glue to faciliate some stuff that X forwarding can't do natively
23:49
<pyite>
got it
23:49
<johnny>
like forwarding sound and access to local devices like usb sticks
23:49
<pyite>
i admit i consider myself pretty comfortable in linux land as a sysadmin (10+ years experience), but this is my first run-in with actually using X Forwarding
23:49
I usually work in command line
23:49
so that's probably going to be the big mystery for me for a while
23:49
<johnny>
well.. you mostly don't notice it
23:49
i just use it at an internet cafe
23:49
<pyite>
interesting
23:50
<johnny>
well.. cafe.. with internet terminals really
23:50
bookstore cafe even..
23:50alkisg has joined #ltsp
23:50
<johnny>
we only have 3 terms
23:50
ah.. alkisg :)
23:50
<pyite>
i wonder if the cost savings will really be there in our environment
23:50
<alkisg>
Good morning all
23:50
<pyite>
due to memory & disk requirements on the server
23:50
i will have to play around i gues
23:50
guess
23:50
<johnny>
pyite, sure.. it's free to try :)
23:50
if you already use a supported distro.. installing ltsp is mostly easy
23:51
<pyite>
$2000 server + 4 x $300 workstations = 3200 for full setups... $800 a station isn't bad actually
23:51
<johnny>
apt-get install ltsp-server
23:51
and if you already have a dhcp server.. there are instructions to modify it to point to your ltsp server for tftp
23:51
<pyite>
option 66 stuff ?
23:51
<johnny>
so.. yeah.. easy
23:51
next-server option
23:51
most of the time
23:51
<pyite>
ok, got it. interesting
23:52
if I really got my way
23:52
<johnny>
when i was developing ltsp for gentoo distro.. i ran my clients in a vbox for testing
23:52
that was fun
23:52
<pyite>
I'd be able to setup VirtualBox with each guest OS on it's own subnet
23:52
then each developer gets their own fake network to play with
23:52
but it's all actually centralized
23:52
that would be pretty darn slick
23:52
it should be possible
23:52
<johnny>
of course there are more options if you start using kvm and other native virt
23:52
but i'm not qualified to speak on them
23:52
<pyite>
feel free, i won't know the difference ;)
23:52
heh
23:53
<johnny>
i have only messed with virtualbox and vmware.. because they were easy to setup at the time
23:53
<pyite>
well this is at least interesting
23:53
imagine 10 users on a single server
23:53
<johnny>
10?
23:53
<pyite>
you think ?
23:53
too optimistic?
23:53
<johnny>
well.. for you and those intensive apps..
23:53
people definitely have waaay more users on some
23:53
<pyite>
some people just use Word :)
23:53
oh really?
23:53
<johnny>
read the
23:53
!docs
23:53
<ltspbot`>
johnny: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
23:54
<pyite>
ok ok
23:54
;)
23:54* pyite takes the hint
23:54
<johnny>
it has specs for common usage
23:54
of course.. if you just want to more easily manage desktops.. you can do a full fat client setup
23:54
<pyite>
eh, it's only avail as a pdf or manpages?
23:54
:(
23:54
<johnny>
no.. you have to browse on the right or something
23:54
the pdf link is just a bit too prominent imo..
23:54try2free has joined #ltsp
23:54
<pyite>
oh got it
23:54
main page
23:54
:)
23:55try2free has quit IRC
23:55
<johnny>
pyite, alkisg serves up 10GB images to his semi powerful clients
23:55
browsers, edu apps, word processing, and whatnot
23:56
in that case.. you wouldn't run into any port conflicts..
23:56
and you'd just be using ltsp to centralize management and have a bunch of machines with no disks
23:57
<pyite>
2200 thin clients on 31 servers !
23:57
holy ****
23:57
lol
23:57
i love the challenges listed
23:58
The need to know the physical location of each thin client as well as the network location, the sheer number of cardboard boxes to be broken down and discarded, all networking was required to be Cat5e or better, fan noise for classroom switches, physical table space to place 6 to 12 client stations in each classroom.
23:58
not "LTSP was hard to use"
23:58
this is really interesting
23:58
looks like 40 users on a not-very-beefy server runs just fine
23:58
ok i'm definitely in
23:58
johnny: thanks, this is fantastic
23:59
<johnny>
ltsp has been around for over 10 years now
23:59
in some form or another.. definitely alot of case studies
23:59
<pyite>
although i am now looking at the docs :)
23:59
i don't see much on Server Sizing
23:59
"There is currently no text in this page."