IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 August 2014   (all times are UTC)

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02:36
<vagrantc>
well, couldn't figure out what was wrong with ltspfs on jessie, but was able to test the fix on wheezy with a backported ltspfs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltspfs/+bug/1021579
02:37
now to fix in jessie so I can really fix the issue.
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03:19
<vagrantc>
so, the fuse group is gone .... i wonder if our scripts assume something there.
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04:11
<vagrantc>
ok, i think lbmount thinks it's not installed setuid root.
04:11
that's *one* of the problems...
04:30
meh. strace is not useable on setuid programs, so the setuid issue is a red herring.
04:54
anyone having ltspfs troubles in recent versions of ubuntu? 14.04 or 14.10 ?
05:01* vagrantc tries patching lbmont to use --bind instead of --move
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06:45
<vagrantc>
meh.
06:45
well, made some progress... still can't figure out why ltspfsd fails to start when called from udev.
06:48
ok, well, running sysvinit instead of systemd fixed it.
06:48
first time i've been really bitten by a difference in behavior
06:48
wonder if that affects the mount --move bug too...
06:57
and systemd breaks that too
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07:13
<vagrantc>
this kind of makes me want to toss out the security concerns of a writeable /media/USERNAME and just mount directly to /media/USERNAME/MOUNT
07:14
alkisg: so, systemd borked ltspfs on debian! :)
07:14
or, one of it's evil minions.
07:15
the "mount --move" just plain doesn't work, and ltspfsd doesn't start from udev anymore. switching back to sysvinit works like a charm.
07:16* vagrantc might upload ltspfs with a "Breaks: systemd" just to document this...
07:16
<vagrantc>
is any ubuntu variant using systemd yet?
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07:27
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, we have that mount --move since a long time on suse, i've just adapted /etc/ltspfs/mounter.d/kde-desktop-icons to point to file:///tmp/.%s-ltspfs/%
07:28
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: yes, we've been using "mount --move" for ages in debian and ubuntu as well...
07:28
cyberorg: or do you mean "systemd breaks mount --move" ?
07:29
<cyberorg>
mount: bad option. Note that moving a mount residing under a shared mount is unsupported
07:30
don't know what is responsible for it
07:31
i think directly mounting to /media/USERNAME/MOUNT is a good idea, all the moving mount doesn't make much sense to me
07:33
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't know enough about ltspfsd to be immediately helpful, but if you want to chat about it, i'm here :)
07:33
ltspfsd doesn't start from udev at all now, or it just exits immediately?
07:34
Ubuntu 14.10 uses systemd AFAIK
07:34
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it seems to start and fail quietly ... it's a bit of a beast to extract useful information out of
07:34
<alkisg>
vagrantc: maybe you could run screen instead, so that you have a terminal to test stuff?
07:35
I.e. replace ltspfsd with a screen wrapper...
07:35
<vagrantc>
also, if i run it manually from a shell on tty2, it works fine.
07:35
i did replace it with an strace logging wrapper ... but that didn't tell much
07:35
<alkisg>
screen would be under systemd
07:36
Btw, what were those security concerns?
07:37
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: yeah, the direct mounting would be ideal, i even had a patch for it ages ago, but it was nixed due to security concerns of a user DOSing a server by filling up /media/
07:38
<alkisg>
What's the sequence there? A user inserts a stick, udev launches ltspfsd, which mounts the stick as root, and `mount --bind`'s it to /media/username/label?
07:38
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, how does mounting to /tmp them mount --move prevent that?
07:39
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: because they're not given write access to /media/USERNAME
07:40
alkisg: everything good up until mount --bind ...
07:40
alkisg: there's a bunch of plumbing between server and client at that point
07:41
<alkisg>
Ah, wait, ltspfsd locally hides the mount... and then ltspfs on the server mounts it under /media/username
07:41
Right?
07:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ltspfs on the server mounts it as /tmp/.username-ltspfs/FOO and then "mount --move /tmp/.username-ltspfs/FOO /media/username/FOO"
07:42
lbmount handles the relocation of the mount point
07:42
<alkisg>
But /media/username is already owned by the user, unrelated to ltsp, right?
07:43
<vagrantc>
no
07:44
root:root here.
07:44
<alkisg>
I had alkisg:alkisg, but after deleting it, it was recreated root:root, ok
07:45
<vagrantc>
apparently, "mount --make-private /" may make "mount --move" work on systemd running systems.
07:46
though, honestly, i'm tempted to just mount a tiny tmpfs in /media/username and direct mount
07:48
<alkisg>
How does udisks mount things under /media/username/label, and we can't do it?
07:48
<vagrantc>
there was some plan to explore ltspfs-udisks hooks, but it's been long stalled out
07:49
<alkisg>
I mean, if we already have a suid root wrapper, I don't see why we can't mount things directly under /media/username, even if it's owned by root...
07:50
<vagrantc>
the ltspfs fuse part needs to be run as the user
07:50
also, don't run more as root than you absolutely have to
07:50
especially with setuid
07:50
<alkisg>
Sure, same as udisks does it
07:50
I don't think they're doing more than absolutely necessary
07:52
<vagrantc>
my old code basically just created a dir in /media/username/ for each mountpoint, and that's all the setuid code did, and then the ltspfs mount could mount directly to that.
07:53
<alkisg>
E.g. mkdir /media/alkisg/sshfs-test, and chown it to alkisg, and then try sshfs as the user => works fine...
07:53
<vagrantc>
it was a hugely simpler diff, far less code running as root, just had the problem of potentially allowing a user to write DOS the /media/username dir with big files (given that /media isn't often split off from /)
07:53
alkisg: yes, that's exactly what the code did.
07:53
<alkisg>
In my example above, /media/alkisg is owned by root
07:54
So the user can't write there
07:54
<vagrantc>
but they could write to sshfs-test
07:54
<alkisg>
It's sshfs, mounted from elsewhere
07:54
<vagrantc>
if they managed to unmount it
07:54
you can unmount sshfs dirs you create
07:54
<alkisg>
The unmount wrapper should delete the directory
07:54
<vagrantc>
but they don't have to use the wrapper
07:54
<alkisg>
They do, they're not root
07:55
If we pass a helper to the mount command
07:55
<vagrantc>
they can umount sshfs filesystems owned by themselves
07:55
<alkisg>
If you have a helper there, it'll be called on unmount
07:55
Even if you use fusermount
07:55
<vagrantc>
i.e. /sbin/umount.ltspfs or whatever?
07:55
<alkisg>
/sbin/mount.ntfs /dev/sda1 /media/alkisg/Vista -o rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=udisks2,uid=1010,gid=1010,dmask=0077,fmask=0177
07:56
That uhelper=xxx can be lbumount, yeah
07:56
And it will even allow unmounting from nautilus
07:56
<vagrantc>
that sounds like an improvement.
07:57
ok, time to do some surgery on ltspfs...
07:57
maybe after i get some sleep.
08:00* alkisg wonders if all those private* mounts can help in ltsp-update-image cleanup.d...
08:00
<alkisg>
!alkisg-todo
08:00
<ltsp>
alkisg-todo: (#1) Hooks for running scripts on these phases: INITRD/INIT/RC/DM/AUTH/LOGIN/SESSION/PERIODIC/LOGOUT/SHUTDOWN, or (#2) implement ltsp-config aoe, or (#3) fix vendor:pxe in ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf and add more options, or (#4) change COMPRESS=gzip (19899456 bytes) to either lzma (14710842) or xz (14633624), in /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf
08:00
<alkisg>
!forget alkisg-todo 4
08:00
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
08:01
<alkisg>
vendor:pxe in ltsp-server-dnsmasq.conf should be vendor:PXEClient... I don't know why it ended up that way
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08:01
<alkisg>
And we could add some other options in the example configuration, commented out, like those shown in dnsmasq --help dhcp
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08:02
<alkisg>
E.g. dns-server, swap-server...
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08:06
<alkisg>
!learn alkisg-todo as parse dhcpinfo.dat from http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/Linux.c32
08:06
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
08:31
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i cc'ed you on two ltspfs* bugs i just submitted related to the systemd issues...
08:31
alkisg: hope that's ok.
08:31
<alkisg>
vagrantc: sure buddy, np at all
08:33
<vagrantc>
i don't expect you to solve it, but if you have more ideas or something i missed, feel free to chime in :)
08:34* vagrantc suspects the newer ubuntu system will have the same or similar issues
08:34
<vagrantc>
and if not, i'd be very curious about what's different
08:35
<alkisg>
I think Ubuntu LTSP users nowadays stick with LTS releases... so unless some developer tests some non-LTS release, we'll know about it in 16.04 :)
08:41
<vagrantc>
pfft.
08:42
wheee. two RC bugs on ltspfs...
08:42
that'll stir the mud.
08:44
<alkisg>
Are any ltsp-dev other than you attending debconf ? Maybe you could work on that there...
08:44* vagrantc is playing host
08:44
<vagrantc>
probably not a lot of time for development
08:45
might get some time to work on it in the next couple days
08:45
<alkisg>
Ah, I thought there was a time before debconf reserved for development... *camp something?
08:46
<vagrantc>
usually there is, but this time the plan was to have dedicated development time during the course of the week without any scheduled talks
08:46
it's an experiment
08:48* vagrantc is tempted to limp along with the "use --bind mount and umount the entry in /tmp" quick fix
08:48
<vagrantc>
even though something more ambitious is in order
08:50* vagrantc sleep
08:50* alkisg would prefer sshfs for ltsp6...
08:50* vagrantc waves
08:50
<alkisg>
'night vagrantc
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09:45
<bernste4>
hi there
09:45
the file /etc/network/interfaces is dynamically generated by ltsp
09:46
do you know where i can set the MTU then ?
09:47
<alkisg>
RCFILE_01="ip params to change mtu"
09:47
Even if you changed that file, it wouldn't take effect, because the ip is manual, set by the initramfs
09:48
So either use RCFILE_01 like above, or put an initramfs script
09:48
<bernste4>
ok
09:48
thanks
09:48
<alkisg>
E.g. #2: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp-sis190
09:48
<bernste4>
cool
09:48
<alkisg>
http://paste.ubuntu.com/8043917/
09:48
That sets the mtu only for sis network cards
09:49
<bernste4>
btw, i just updated our ubuntu 12.04 ltsp setup to 14.04 and it worked great
09:50
<alkisg>
You're lucky, 14.04 is lame here, where we need an international keyboard layout... :)
09:50* alkisg waves
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13:33
<pscheie>
Are there any other HOT examples besides https://github.com/openstack/heat-templates/tree/master/hot
13:33
?
13:33
Oops, wrong channel.
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14:10
<brianr>
good morning. I have a web application that is being accessed by thin clients. The web application needs to know the IP of the thin client. Does anyone know a good way to make remote_addr or even x_forwarded_for (or similar variables) report the thin client ip and not the terminal server ip
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14:32
<Hyperbyte>
brianr, actually, I ran into the same issue are you are running into.
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14:32
<Hyperbyte>
brianr, not sure if you are actually looking for the IP of the user? Because what I wanted was the username. :-)
14:33
brianr, and this I solved by using the ident protocol (TCP port 113, identd daemon)
14:33
It's a very simple protocol to implement.
14:34
If you really need the IP address of the client, then you're out of luck I think. The browser runs on the terminal server, not the thin client. So it doesn't actually know the IP address.
14:35
One hack you could do is create a script that runs firefox http://mywebapp/?ip=$LTSP_CLIENT
14:36
<brianr>
how about dynamically setting x_forwarded_for to $LTSP_CLIEN
14:36
getting the username wont help us much
14:36
<Hyperbyte>
brianr, X_FORWARDED_FOR is set by proxy servers
14:37
<brianr>
yes
14:39
<Hyperbyte>
brianr, let's go back one step - what exactly do you want to do with the IP address?
14:39
Why do you need it?
14:40
<brianr>
we have local devices, scanners to be exact on the thin clients, and the web app needs to tell sane where to try and pull the scan from
14:41
right now we are looking at some browser extensions that let you set headers
14:41
we might have something that works ... it reads your headers from a file, so we could write that file when the user logs in.
14:42
<Hyperbyte>
brianr, you realize LTSP has scanning features you can enable so the local scanner is available directly on the server?
14:42
That might help a little somehow...
14:42
Also, another option could be to run the browser for the webapp locally, on the thin client itself, rather than on the server.
14:43
Check
14:43
!localapps
14:43
<ltsp>
localapps: to access a tutorial on setting up localapps on jaunty, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty
14:43
<Hyperbyte>
Oh that's really old.
14:43
Type "ltsp-localapps xterm" in a terminal window, it'll show you what localapps does.
14:43
<brianr>
many of our thin clients are not beefy enough to run it locally, it works but performance is poor. many have 1gb memory, and are using atom processors
14:44
<Hyperbyte>
I wasn't suggesting to run everything locally... just the web app.
14:44
<brianr>
because that does work ... we tried that but performance was horrible
14:44
right .. we were just running chrome locally
14:44
<Hyperbyte>
Anyway... those are my thoughts so far. :P I have to hit the road now though.
14:44
Maybe someone else has better idea.
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15:28
<alkisg>
brianr: create a /usr/local/bin/firefox wrapper, which runs /usr/bin/firefox "http://your-web-server/index.php?client=$LTSP-CLIENT"
15:28
Then redirect it to your main index page, and get the referrer...
15:29
<brianr>
hmm, yes that _should_ work
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15:37
<brianr>
i'll tell you the imediate issue with that, when you specify a url in the startup of chrome or firefox, it does not open the users preferred start page(s).
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15:42
<alkisg>
I thought that was the only application that the users ran... but anyway, translating from an environment variable to an http header is a question for #mozilla, not for #ltsp...
15:43
It should be doable with a tiny plugin.
15:44
It's also possible for the wrapper to use sqlite and directly edit firefox settings before launching firefox
15:47
<brianr>
that's a possibility. also thinking of writing a cookie upon user login, that the webserver can access
15:48
<alkisg>
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/933433
15:48
They describe a method to set user preferences (like user.js) from environment variables there
15:48
So it should be easy to create a global user.js that sets a header from LTSP_CLIENT, for all users
15:49
<brianr>
thanks for the link , that looks promising
15:50
<alkisg>
Anyway, ask at #mozilla, they know their stuff better
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16:20
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: you might be interested in following https://bugs.debian.org/758090 and https://bugs.debian.org/758093
16:20
i guess upstream bugs might make sense as well..
16:21
although i'm not sure what part is debian-specific at this point
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16:22
<vagrantc>
ok, so lxde has *two* features that work well with ltsp ... shutdown/reboot work out of the box, and ltspfs mounts show up in the file manager!
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18:25
<vagrantc>
hrm. my quick workaround requires me to learn some C ... it exec's the mount --bind business, so it can't follow-up with an umount.
18:25
or maybe there's another way.
18:31* alkisg just tried ltspfs in 14.04, and while it works (no systemd here), the owner of /media/user is user:root
18:31
<alkisg>
So it's already writeable...
18:34
Unmounting any directory inside /home/user/* automatically results in the directory being removed
18:34
Even without helpers present in the command line
18:35
<vagrantc>
hm.
18:35
wonder how we made that work.
18:37
<alkisg>
No no sorry, for the automatic removal, I was talking about other mounts, not ltspfs ones
18:37
E.g. mounting an ntfs volume... but, unmounting an ltspfs mount doesn't auto-remove it
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18:38
<vagrantc>
the simplest approach would be to create /media/username/FOO as writeable as the user, and then ltspfs mounting directly there.
18:39
<alkisg>
Verify that /media/username doesn't exist. Then plug in a USB stick. Then you say that in debian, that directory would be owned by root:root?
18:39
Because here, when ltspfs creates it, it's user:root, already insecure...
18:44
<vagrantc>
yeah, it seems to be created as /media/username owned by the user here too...
18:44
though i do have a quick fix workaround: http://paste.debian.net/115638/
18:44
<alkisg>
So all the trouble of `mount --move` is in vain, AFAIK...
18:44
<vagrantc>
right
18:45
we could really simplify the code greatly.
18:45
<alkisg>
There's a small patch for reverse sshfs
18:46
I'd rather use that for ltsp6...
18:46
<vagrantc>
sure
18:46
well, at least for debian, i may go with my simple little workaround for now.
18:46
<alkisg>
What are the downsides of mount --bind as a workaround for now?
18:47
<vagrantc>
the original downside was that it leaves two mounts (one in /media and one in /tmp)
18:47
but i've worked around that in ltspfsmounter.
18:47
there might be some corner cases where a mount fails and leaves us in an ugly state, whereas --move is atomic
18:48
also haven't tested the backportability of this approach ... maybe old fusermount would remove both /media and /tmp mountpoints if you removed one of them.
18:52* vagrantc also needs to test with sysvinit and backportability...
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18:54
<alkisg>
!learn alkisg as test reverse sshfs: http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/view/13289/reverse-sshfs-mount
18:54
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
18:54
<alkisg>
!forget alkisg 2
18:54
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
18:54
<alkisg>
!learn alkisg-todo as test reverse sshfs: http://www.commandlinefu.com/commands/view/13289/reverse-sshfs-mount
18:54
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
18:54
<vagrantc>
i should look into updating it to mount to /media/username/foo directly.
18:54
a little more invasive, but a *lot* cleaner.
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18:55
<vagrantc>
also, while we're at it, installing a umount helper script would be nice.
18:56
let's see if we can't push out ltspfs 1.4 in the next couple days...
18:56
<alkisg>
It appears that things advanced, in 14.04 it's possible for the user to unmount things even without a helper somehow
18:56
<vagrantc>
in jessie i've been able to unmount it with fusermount -u
18:56
but, great!
18:58
<alkisg>
ltsp 6... no ldm, no ltspfs, no getltscfg... we already removed xatomwait etc...
18:58
...it shouldn't be called ltsp anymore, everything got rewritten :D
18:59
<vagrantc>
hrm. lxde's file manager isn't showing the mounts with mount --bind
18:59
alkisg: well, a lot of that wasn't in ltsp 3 or 4 either
18:59
alkisg: about the only thing that's been around since forever is getltscfg
19:00
alkisg: so, calling it something else is a separate issue
19:04
helperless unmount doesn't work in mate on jessie
19:06
but it does show up in the file manager
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19:48
<vagrantc>
heh. looks like sbalneav changed it to own the /media/username as the user back in february 2010
19:49
why we're not taking full advantage of it is beyond me!
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20:32
<vagrantc>
ah, i remember now ... we changed the /media/username to be chowned by the user so that it didn't depend on the user's group being private.
20:32
as the code to handle that correctly was insane.
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21:42
<user3>
Hi, Im wondering if LTSP requires a internet connection for it to work. I think it needs to be connected to the router, but if the internet itself cuts off (which is somewhat requent with my internet), will the thin clients shut down?
21:43
Also, does it use data from your ISP?
21:45
<talntid>
it does not need internet
21:45
unless, of course, you want to surf the web
21:45
it doesn't use data from your ISP, unless, of course, you want to surf the web
21:45
<user3>
okay, thanks
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21:48
<vagrantc>
unless, of course, your router is the hardware that fails...
21:48
and you've got the thin clients plugged directly into it...
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22:37
<talntid>
;)
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23:26
<cryptrat>
got a ?, there is a youtube video from disklessworkstations that shows rdp or rdesktop being used to remotely call ms office is there any tutorial for that anywhere?
23:32
sorry it was revolutionLinux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OEs2AWFTWc