IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 19 November 2007   (all times are UTC)

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00:36
<tuukka>
hi! i'm implementing ltsp to our college (~300 students). the only problem before i'm able to put it on use is that i'm not able to make proper working "login script". this script would have to be run everytime somebody logins to a thin client. i've tried all the .bash related stuff that's talked about on different forums with no avail. all help is hugely appreciated...
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01:31
<vagrantc>
tuukka: drop a script in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ ?
01:43
<daduke>
vagrantc: Hi vagrantc! I was discussing with ogra last Friday about a problem we have with local usb devices (LTSP5 on etch). We tracked it down to the :10.0 display export in ltspfsmounter and a X auth incompatibility in add_fstab_entry. We backported ltspfs and -d from sid, and the latest result on Friday was to also backport ldm to get the auth right. The new ldm does not work at all however. They told me to talk to you. Got some minutes?
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01:48
<vagrantc>
daduke: i haven't tried to backport ldm 5.0.39debian1 ...
01:49
daduke: there are backports for 5.0.31debian2 that i've tested that worked fine
01:49
daduke: well, with some small glitches (like the background wallpaper didn't display)
01:50
daduke: but yes, i think the hard-coded export of DISPLAY is probably not a good thing...
01:51
<daduke>
vagrantc: problem was that a local X was (and is) running on the TS, hence it was :11, not :10.
01:51
<vagrantc>
TS ... thin client ?
01:51
<daduke>
vagrantc: terminal server, sorry. Do you have a URL for this ldm backport?
01:52
<vagrantc>
daduke: in my experience, every user using the X server will get a different DISPLAY number, so hard-coding to :10 will break any time you have multiple users
01:53
daduke: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto ... backports are at the bottom
01:53
<daduke>
vagrantc: right. I just removed the line, seems to work better without...
01:53
<vagrantc>
daduke: unfortunately, i don't really have a test environment till mid-december
01:54
daduke: could you report that bug to the debian BTS ?
01:54
<daduke>
vagrantc: thanks, I hadn't found this page before. I'm happy to provide any help I can, we also run a debian mirror, hence we could offer debs.
01:54
vagrantc: yeah sure
01:54
<vagrantc>
it was mentioned on the pkg-ltsp-devel list ...
01:55
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-ltsp-devel/2007-November/thread.html#1095
01:55
<daduke>
vagrantc: phone, sorry, brb
01:59
<vagrantc>
i should get some sleep
01:59
daduke: seems like there are two related bugs... one for ltspfs and one for ldm ...
02:00* vagrantc tries to remember that bug someone reported the other night ...
02:00
<vagrantc>
ah yes, dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-* will fail if there's already an nbi.img for a particular kernel version when using mkelf-linux
02:09
<tuukka>
vagrantc: thank you. this is actually tries to run the script. one more question: script fails to run properly and throws user back to login screen... the reason might be that i'm using $USER env. variable on script, do you know is this allowed??
02:16
<vagrantc>
tuukka: i don't know. look in ~/.xsession-errors after a failed login attempt and see if that reports anything
02:22
<daduke>
vagrantc: back. I'll try now.
02:23
<vagrantc>
daduke: i'm pretty sure the backported packages have the DISPLAY related bug ...
02:23
anyways ...
02:23
good luck
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04:19
<Nubae>
hi, my chroot is failing at the point of nbd mount... it says mounting dev/nbd0 on /rofs failed: No such device
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04:49
<Nubae>
anyone here?
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06:02
<rafaelcardoso>
hi all, with ltsp more rdesktop, I can use smart cards?
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06:27
<m_pahlevanzadeh>
i have a question on Speed of LTSP
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06:47
<m_pahlevanzadeh>
i have a question on Speed of LTSP
06:47
I wanna create a LTSP server in USA, thet it server its clients in Asia.
06:48
<daduke>
m_pahlevanzadeh: dedicated Gbit ethernet in between?
06:49
<sep>
daduke, i imagine that would be expencive...
06:49
<m_pahlevanzadeh>
daduke, i need to know thats speed
06:49
<daduke>
daduke: but IMHO it's the only way something like this could work.
06:50
sep: that was sep: of course...
06:51
m_pahlevanzadeh: you need to know what?
06:52
<m_pahlevanzadeh>
daduke, amount of time that client can boot
06:52
<daduke>
m_pahlevanzadeh: booting is not your problem, X traffic is
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06:53
<m_pahlevanzadeh>
daduke , thx
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06:56
<frownix_>
m_pahlevanzadeh, you should consider something like NX for usa based server/asian clients
06:58
<m_pahlevanzadeh>
frownix_, ty
06:59
<frownix_>
m_pahlevanzadeh, it won't be a diskless setup, but it would do the job
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07:10
<sonjag>
Good morning!
07:11
<daduke>
sonjag: Howdy!
07:12
<sonjag>
I have a question about /tmp files. When I run mount, I see a ton of items in /tmp. many usb disks. Is this problematic? I ask because today, after leaving Friday with no swap space used, I came in to find swap allocated and I have a really slow running system.
07:13
I find this odd because no one used it this weekend and we were running fine on Friday.
07:13
I have about 30 mins that students are in a meeting, and I want to reboot before then. If you think I should check something before I do that, please tell me!
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07:17
<frownix_>
sonjag, is the system running slow now?
07:17
<sonjag>
yes... takes about 2 mins from password to desktop. This is usually more like 20 seconds (I run winbind, which seems to make it slower than ldap.)
07:18
<frownix_>
any services that you have on bootup that is slowing things down?
07:18
any services in cron?
07:19
any program running "wild"? (check top)
07:20
<sonjag>
I didn't reboot this morning, if that's what you mean. This is running edubuntu 7.04... pretty standard install. I added things like Flash and winbind for authentication, but nothing that I think is really demanding. Checking top now...
07:21
frownix_, no zombies, 176K RAM on one of my TS. Anything specific I should look at?
07:22
<frownix_>
could be a host resolution problem. running bind or something?
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07:23
<sonjag>
frownix_, other TS similar. I'm running winbind... is that the same as bind (I'm a medium newbie :)
07:23
<frownix_>
no idea what winbind is, so i can't tell
07:23
<daduke>
sonjag: TS == terminal server? Got several? Or do you mean thin client?
07:23
<sonjag>
frownix_, I use winbind to auth against MS Active Directory. I would look there, except even after login, things run slowly.
07:24
<frownix_>
but, you are not using /etc/hosts then ?
07:24
<sonjag>
daduke, TS is terminal server. Got 2. And an NFS server with home folders (separate server.)
07:24
<frownix_>
also do a tcpdump to see if you can see some problem in the traffic
07:24
<sonjag>
frownix_, not sure...
07:25
<daduke>
sonjag: and you only got 176k RAM on the TS? what's eating up all your ram?
07:25
<sonjag>
daduke, NO!! I have 6G on each of the TS, and 4G on the NFS server. Most of the RAM is buffered or free.
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07:26
<sonjag>
daduke, didn't mean to yell on the "no"
07:26
<daduke>
sonjag: that's ok, but you said something about 176k some lines ago...
07:27
sonjag: if you sort 'ps' for mem and cpu usage, nothing sticking out?
07:27
sonjag: oops, not 'ps' but 'top'
07:27
<sonjag>
frownix_, ran tcpdump on one TS. Lots of stuff spewed out. When I ctl-c to stop it, told me about packets captured, received and dropped. Should I run it with variables (ugh, that's not the word but I can't think of it)
07:28
daduke, I got the 176K used in swap from top on one TS. The other one is 308.
07:28
<frownix_>
sonjag, usually you can just pipe it to > log or whatever and browse through it to see if something sticks out
07:28
like "looking for ....something" and so on
07:29
i'm guessing that you have a host resolving problem though
07:29
<Nubae>
maybe someone can help me... I-m getting the following in my ldm.log in the client chroot: Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding
07:29
and no one can login except for main user
07:29
this is in a virgin chroot
07:29
<daduke>
sonjag, frownix_ : but this would not explain slow app response after login
07:29
<frownix_>
but since I have no idea on what winbind is, and what it does, and haven't used ubuntu, i can't really help in sorting that out
07:31
<sonjag>
frownix_, the tcpdump has a lot of lines that looks like it ack'ing the nfs server. That should be fine (altho I've never looked at tcpdump before.) I'm authenticating so I think winbind is okay. I'm still curious about the /tmp folder I noticed being full of unmounted devices.
07:32
<daduke>
sonjag: and these are not the unionfs overlays?
07:33
<sonjag>
daduke, I'm not sure what unionfs overlays are, so I don't think so. Two edubuntu fiesty TS, mounting home from another edubuntu fiesty server and getting authentication from Windows ADS. Does that explain it?
07:34
daduke, frownix_ I think I'm just going to reboot and make sure this is running in 10 mins when kids are back. I'll be back online after that. Thanks for your suggestions.
07:34
<frownix_>
bbiab
07:34
<daduke>
sonjag: the TC are mounting their NFS home read-only. In order to be able to write (which they have to in /etc and /tmp and /var) there's a ram-based filesystem (unionfs) overlay on top of the r/o NFS. These show in the mount.
07:35
<sonjag>
daduke, here's the line from mount about the home folder
07:35
172.27.1.42:/home/ELLISEAGLES on /home/ELLISEAGLES type nfs (rw,addr=172.27.1.42)
07:36
daduke, does that tell you? Is there something else I can do to show you if it's unionfs?
07:37
<daduke>
daduke: you said there's plenty of tmp files/filesystem. What to they look like? The above is ok AFAICT
07:37
<sonjag>
/tmp/.15tcair-ltspfs/boot on /media/15tcair/boot type none (rw,bind)
07:37
/tmp/.13nprzy-ltspfs/usbdisk-sda1 on /media/13nprzy/usbdisk-sda1 type none (rw,bind)
07:38
daduke, there are a couple of them... typical. I probably have about 30 of them
07:39
<daduke>
sonjag: these are not the unionfs. Do you allow local USB devices? Could it be leftovers from their mountpoints? boot is strange but usbdisk-sda1 is one of these
07:40
<sonjag>
daduke, yes, I do allow local usb devices and most of my students have flash drives they use to transfer files between home and school. I think that's what most of them are, I'm just wondering if they could be problematic.
07:41
<daduke>
sonjag: don't think so. Have you checked top for cpu usage on the TS?
07:41
<sonjag>
daduke, you are great for helping me and I'd like to look at this further. Right now, I would like to restart my servers and get them ready. Community meeting is almost over.
07:41
<daduke>
sonjag: good idea.
07:42
<sonjag>
daduke, okay... last one!! Yes, top shows me that CPU is not being fully utilized. dual duo core 3.2GHz processors.
07:42
daduke, I'll jump back in when I'm back up and running. Thanks!!
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07:45
<Nubae>
anyone have any ideas about my no logins issue?
07:46
I get .xsession-errors gives me: xrdb: Connection refused in my .xsession-errors
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07:50
<daduke>
Nubae: sorry, no.
07:51
<Nubae>
authentication goes through, everything works, but the damn user gets thrown out again... it makes no sense
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08:14
<sonjag>
daduke, still there?
08:15
<daduke>
sonjag: yup. Working again?
08:16
<sonjag>
daduke, yup. Took 2 restarts tho. First restart ended up at a blank screen with blinking cursor. Once they administered the heart paddles and got my heart started again, I did a hard reboot and both came back up. Very strange. Working fine now. Back to regular speed.
08:17
<daduke>
sonjag: :)
08:18
<sonjag>
daduke, iostat looks fine on both (or at least what I think is fine... still don't know what "good" iostats are, but these are normal for me.) top is fine... no swap.
08:18
<daduke>
sonjag: strange... it's probably hard to diagnose now
08:19
<sonjag>
daduke, yea... I did want to look at it more, but didn't want to go another class period without them. It's my whole middle school.
08:19
<daduke>
sonjag: no sure, did the right thing. Let's hope it doesn't come back.
08:20
<sonjag>
daduke, I didn't restart my nfs server, so I'm fairly certain that's not the issue. And winbind still works fine. Got any ideas on what to watch?
08:22
<daduke>
sonjag: it's really hard to tell. My guess would have been ram or cpu, but if both were fine... I'm not so sure about the lookup issue frownix_ brought up. It could explain a lag in loggin in, but once the connection is established that shouldn't play a role any more.
08:24
<sonjag>
daduke, ok. Thanks! I'll just keep a lookout for swap being used. This happens on occasion and usually indicates problems just like this.
08:24
daduke, frownix_ Thanks to both of you for your help this morning!
08:26
<daduke>
sonjag: sure thing. In case you don't have it already, you might want to think about using a monitoring service like big brother or nagios.
08:26
<sonjag>
daduke, thanks. I've been meaning to look into something like that. Do you have a recommendation/preference for either?
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08:30
<daduke>
sonjag: we use big brother to monitor 500+ machines (http://bb.phys.ethz.ch/bb/), but this is not necessarily a recommendation - historical reasons...
08:33
<sonjag>
daduke, Thanks for the candor and the ideas. I'll take a look at both :)
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09:36
<sonjag>
Earlier today daduke recommended using a monitoring software like Nagios or Big Brother. I would like to know if anyone has any specific recommendations (even other than those 2) and if running one of those on a production server is problematic (I could run it on a laptop if that is the recommended way). Any other advice on system monitoring software is welcome! Oh, and tell me if this is not the right forum for this conversation. I tend to put everything on
09:36
this because I get really good suggestions/help. Thanks for it all!
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10:41
<daduke_>
vagrantc: you around?
10:41
<vagrantc>
daduke_: not for long
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10:42
<daduke_>
vagrantc: ok, I make it short: I tried installing ltsp from the etch repo you gave me, but it complains about missing pulseaudio when creating the client. Do I have to modifiy the package list or something? If so, where is it?
10:43
<vagrantc>
daduke_: i've not experienced that
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10:43
<vagrantc>
daduke_: the build complains about it missing, or the client complains when it boots ?
10:43
or when you log in?
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10:44
<daduke_>
vagrantc: no, upon ltsp-build-client it says missing dependency and doesn't finish building /opt/ltsp
10:45
<nubae>
hi ltspers...
10:45
<vagrantc>
daduke_: are you using a full debian mirror ?
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10:47
<daduke_>
vagrantc: yup, plus the repo from the wiki. Everything else is fine, just pulseaudio missing, and for some reason it cannot resolve the dep itself. I can do a manual aptitude install pulseaudio, but a second build-client wouldn't finish either.
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10:49
<vagrantc>
daduke_: well, there's nothing LTSP does strange- it's just plain apt-get
10:50
<daduke_>
vagrantc: hmmm, but there gotta be a package list or something? How does it know which packages to install?
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10:51
<vagrantc>
daduke_: it installs ltsp-client by default
10:51
daduke_: which has the dependencies
10:52
<nubae>
vagrantc... can u believe I'm still with the same login problems from yesterday... I've now spent over 12 hours on this, and I'm not a whole lot further. I've built virgin chroots, I've backed up the dns stuff to how it was before, and still cannot login....
10:53
<daduke_>
vagrantc: ok, I see. And this repo from the wiki is supposed to just work in etch?
10:53
<nubae>
the main user can login anywhere, but everyone else gets a black screen after authentication, and then gets thrown out... ldm.log tells me its to do with xauth
10:53
<vagrantc>
daduke_: the etch-ltsp-backports are just the ltsp*, ldm and ltspfs* packages built for etch
10:53
<nubae>
and of course I get the .xsession-error about xrdb not being able to connect
10:54
but now at least I can ssh into the clients
10:54
which I couldnt before
10:54
<daduke_>
vagrantc: ok, let me rephrase: is it known to work for somebody?
10:55
<vagrantc>
daduke_: worked for me
10:55
<nubae>
I had it working yesterday evening after changing permissions of /tmp to 1777, but then this morning, it webt again
10:55
<vagrantc>
daduke_: installed a clean etch system, and followed the instructions in the howto to the letter, and it worked for me.
10:56
<daduke_>
vagrantc: local usb and all? I guess I have to try harder then ;)
10:57
<vagrantc>
daduke_: i made sure sound, cdrom, floppy and usb devices worked.
10:57
<daduke_>
vagrantc: I'll try again tomorrow and keep you posted.
10:57
<vagrantc>
though there may be a bug that causes local devices to only work for the first user to log in
10:58
<daduke_>
vagrantc: I've read about it. Is there a workaround?
10:58
<vagrantc>
i don't have a test environment to verify this stuff for myself
10:59
<nubae>
theres a bug report with an explanation of the solution in launchpad
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10:59
<nubae>
it works, I've verified that...
11:00
<vagrantc>
nubae: how can you verify that it works if you can't log in?
11:00
<nubae>
before that happened
11:00
<vagrantc>
heh
11:00
<nubae>
I had ltsp running fine for 2 months
11:00
<vagrantc>
anyways, good luck all ... i've got to run
11:00
<nubae>
but I believe this is dns related
11:00* vagrantc usually tests in an environment without dns
11:01
<nubae>
yeah, that I learnt
11:01vagrantc has quit IRC
11:02* nubae is gonna re-install for the 4th time...
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11:13
<ace_suares>
!seen ogra
11:13
<ltspbot>
ace_suares: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 23 hours, 39 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <ogra> warren, why not just take ltsp-update-kernels as its in the ltsp code for now ... (and adjust it for fedora)
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13:18
<Q-FUNK>
lovely storm on the Baltic sea today :)
13:18
live and direct from Titanic
13:18
<cliebow_>
8~)
13:18
<Q-FUNK>
yes, Estonian ferries have free wifi
13:20
ah, the wonders of cross-border commuting :)
13:20
<cliebow_>
prett cool though...
13:20
<Q-FUNK>
yup
13:21
nice way to spend 2 hours sitting in the ferry waiting t get from point A to point B
13:22
<cliebow_>
where to where???
13:25
<Q-FUNK>
Helsinki-Tallinn
13:27
I live in Helsinki and the officie is in Tallinn
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13:30
<cliebow_>
far cry from my little ferry..twenty minutes from cranberry island to the mainland
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14:07
<dan__t>
'afternoon, guys.
14:08
I was wondering if anyone has ever used LTSP in a production hosting environment to facilitate the rapid deployment of web servers.
14:20
<joebob777as7>
not me
14:35
<vagrantc>
dan__t: i've definitely thought about that some
14:35
dan__t: it's why i split the ltsp-client package into two packages
14:36
while definitely not the majority of uses, i don't think LTSP should limit itself solely to desktop environments
14:39Gadi has left #ltsp
14:42
<cliebow_>
no limits..World Domination!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:43
<vagrantc>
hell, we could achieve world domination with half those exclamation points
14:44
<cliebow_>
heh
15:21rasmuson_ has quit IRC
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15:26
<dan__t>
vagrantc, have you done any more development for the server side of things?
15:26
I'm very interested in that.
15:26
Sorry... went out to lunch for a bit.
15:30
<vagrantc>
dan__t: not any development, other than making it possible to install without X and sound and local devices and such
15:30
<dan__t>
Interesting.
15:30
<vagrantc>
but it can't really be that difficult to set up
15:30
<dan__t>
Is this work documented anywhere?
15:31
I'd like to use ltsp for a few machines behind an LVS router to see how it works.
15:31
<vagrantc>
on debian or ubuntu, ltsp-build-client --early-packages ltsp-client-core
15:31
<dan__t>
hrm, ok - no redhat builds?
15:31
<vagrantc>
no
15:32
<dan__t>
Would you have a problem with me working on that?
15:32
<vagrantc>
fedora's been working on getting an LTSP5 implementation
15:32
dan__t: of course, no problem working on it :)
15:33
<dan__t>
I'd like to toy around with a C5 roll of it
15:33
<vagrantc>
dan__t: you probably want to talk to warren
15:33
<dan__t>
I recall speaking with him in the past about LTSP over C5 or Fedora
15:34
<vagrantc>
he's been actively working on LTSP5 for fedora recently
15:35
<dan__t>
Hmmm.
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15:51
<dan__t>
I want that code.
15:57
<warren>
dan__t, I will make it easy to customize what gets installed in the chroot
15:58
<dan__t>
I would certainly appreciate it.
15:58
<warren>
dan__t, although ltsp-build-client might not be the best place to do it
15:58
<dan__t>
I'll continue to test and develop for C5, if you'd like that?
15:58
<warren>
dan__t, ltsp-build-client would read from a .ks file that defines what gets installed into the chroot
15:58
dan__t, what is C5?
15:58
<dan__t>
CentOS5.
15:58
<warren>
dan__t, you mean get LTSP5 to work on Centos5?
15:59
dan__t, you really need to help me get it working on Fedora, because 99% of what we need is common
15:59
dan__t, then after we have upstream in good shape with fedora integration and Fedora packages, you can be the EPEL maintainer of the same packages.
16:00
dan__t, (actually a few other people were also interested, we can all work together as a team)
16:00
<dan__t>
This is true.
16:00
I can help develop for Fedora, sure.
16:00
<warren>
do you have both Fedora and CentOS installs?
16:01
dan__t, I'm developing on Fedora 8 first, because the goal is to make it an official feature in Fedora 9. (Pushing a distro based on Fedora 8 + LTSP5 hopefully in January.)
16:01
<dan__t>
Excellent.
16:01
i do.
16:01
Multiples of both.
16:02
<warren>
dan__t, ok, are you suscribed to the ltsp.org developer list?
16:02
<dan__t>
I am not. I'll get right on that now.
16:02
<warren>
dan__t, I will be talking about development here in the channel and on that list.
16:02
dan__t, unfortunately, a great deal of discussion happens here
16:02
dan__t, you might want to look at using a personal IRC proxy server in order to keep yourself in this channel all the time, so you don't miss anything.
16:03
(IRC proxies are cool, you reconnect with your client later and it replays everything you missed.)
16:03
<dan__t>
psybnc works for me.
16:03
heh
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16:05
<usuario__>
hi everyone
16:05
someone is here?
16:06
<dan__t>
Sure there are.
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16:06
<warren>
dan__t, see the list archives, I recently posted my branch of mkinitrd that handles NFS and NBD squashfs booting, as well as on-demand network driver loading.
16:06
dan__t, both are very critical for LTSP5 on Fedora/CentOS
16:06
<vagrantc>
usuario__: even if someone wasn't here, is best to just start asking questions
16:07
<usuario__>
hey guys why there isnt a suse ltp5 support?
16:07
ltsp5
16:07
<dan__t>
I'll read up on it.
16:07
<vagrantc>
usuario__: there's something for opensuse
16:07
<dan__t>
Is it based upon GNBD and such, warren
16:07
?
16:07
<usuario__>
where
16:07
<warren>
dan__t, prior to Fedora 9 and RHEL6, we may have to ship that unofficial version of mkinitrd as mkinitrd-ltsp or something. It is to be installed only within the chroot, not the server.
16:07
<vagrantc>
usuario__: search for kiwi ltsp
16:07
<dan__t>
I see.
16:07
<warren>
dan__t, don't know what GNBD is.
16:07
<usuario__>
ok
16:08
<dan__t>
oh,nm.
16:08
<usuario__>
do you know some trivia channel?
16:08
<dan__t>
I think that's more RHEL/CentOS
16:08
<vagrantc>
though, the reason distro FOO doesn't have LTSP5 is usually someone hasn't done all the work to make it happen
16:09
<dan__t>
I understand.
16:09
Ok, well, I'll certainly do what I can.
16:09
LTSP has done me well the last year, the least I can do is contribute :
16:09
:)
16:09
<vagrantc>
GNBD is some fancy enterprise variation on NBD
16:09
<warren>
dan__t, well, what is GNBD?
16:09
dan__t, why isn't it in Fedora?
16:09
<dan__t>
global network block device
16:09
<warren>
oh, that thing.
16:09
<dan__t>
it's essentially iSCSI in a sense?
16:09
<warren>
rather not use it
16:10
<vagrantc>
fills a similar role
16:10
<dan__t>
But more specific towards shared storage.
16:10
<warren>
it ins't upstream right?
16:10
<dan__t>
It is per RHEL, not so sure about Fedora.
16:10
Like I siad, apples and oranges, we'll get there when we finish the Fedora part.
16:10
<warren>
It requires a non-standard kernel module
16:10
nbd is already in the standard kernel
16:10
and it works fine for our purposes
16:10
dan__t, it makes booting thin clients faster than nfs
16:10
<dan__t>
I'm not familiar with NDB, I'll read up on that, too.
16:11
GNBD only addresses the storage aspects of things.
16:11
<warren>
dan__t, just see my post with examples and my bzr branch
16:11
<dan__t>
You have GNBD servers, which export the data, and GFS nodes that read it.
16:11
Ok.
16:13* vagrantc wonders about the viability of a peer-to-peer filesystem
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16:13
<vagrantc>
that could really take the load off the server
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16:15
<Drakewe1>
hey
16:15
hey
16:16
hey
16:16* vagrantc raises an eyebrow
16:16
<johnny>
one day, i'll have autologin workin again
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16:17
<Drakeweb>
hey guys
16:17
anyone familiar with the neoware eon 3000 and 4000 clients?
16:17
are the that same hardware with different firmware?
16:18
wince as opposed to neolinux?
16:18
or are there hardware differences?
16:18
i have the chance to buy both, so was wondering which one to go for ...
16:19
<johnny>
can't you find the specs on the web?
16:19
<dan__t>
Well, GNBD nodes can be the same as application nodes.
16:19
For a distributed filesystem.
16:20
But when it's centralized using a client/server setup, it becomes much easier and less intense for the application nodes.
16:20
Anyway, enough of that hh.
16:20
heh, rather.
16:21
warren, what's your name so I can search for it on the lists?
16:21
<warren>
dan__t, Warren Togami
16:21
<Drakeweb>
thanks for that, johnny. I was hoping for some personal recommendations, or perhaps advice from people currently using either
16:21
<dan__t>
Got it, thanks.
16:22
<johnny>
Drakeweb, unlikely you'll find people with specific hardware preferences in the irc channle
16:22
you'll have better luck on a forum or list
16:23
<Drakeweb>
surprising - I've had some in-depth chats recently about IBM netvista 2200 clients.
16:24
<johnny>
sure.. but you got lucky
16:24
i wish we could afford to buy real thin clients..
16:24
my network is a hodge podge of regular PCs booting off rom-o-matic generated floppies
16:24
<Drakeweb>
these are GBP10 each.
16:24
<johnny>
really? tht's not too bad
16:25
<Drakeweb>
NOT BAD!
16:25
<johnny>
gigabit?
16:25
<Drakeweb>
it's remarkable - that's why I'm asking for help!
16:25
<johnny>
sadly firefox is the eater of souls
16:25
<Drakeweb>
nope - 100
16:25
<johnny>
going to do local apps with that
16:26
i doubt that hardware could support it
16:26
<Drakeweb>
not got one yet. picked up 4 x IBMN2200 recently, but can't make 'em work with ltsp5
16:26
so am looking for alternatives
16:26
and found a few eon 3000/4000 about
16:27
<dan__t>
Firefox is becoming the bastard child of all things unholy as of late.
16:27
<johnny>
going to switch to epiphany + webkit if firefox 3 can't cut it down
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16:38
<sutula>
Drakeweb: I think one of the problems is that what performs well in one application doesn't in others
16:41
Drakeweb: I have a number of HP 5710's that are performing well for me...got them cheap on eBay...but my application is 5-6 clients and a small server
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17:43
<warren>
Anyone own Jim's T170 thin clients?
17:44
<dan__t>
who's jim?
17:45
<warren>
dan__t, Jim runs http://disklessworkstations.com/
17:45
dan__t, Jim is project leader of ltsp.org
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17:46
<dan__t>
Ohh ok
17:46
<warren>
dan__t, I'm ensuring that all of their thin clients work out-of-the-box with Fedora 9
17:47
<dan__t>
Very cool.
17:47
<warren>
dan__t, or at least trying to do so
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20:08
<warren>
hmm
20:08
I guess sbalneav still didn't pull ogra's changes
20:08
<ogra>
he wasnt around the last two days
20:08
he knows about them though
20:09
btw i have a 170, but thats in use atm, i can free it up until tomorrow afternoon (UTC)
20:09
<warren>
ogra, oh, i was wondering how common they are in schools
20:10
<ogra>
hmm, no idea, they were the flagship once ...
20:10
so the most expensive optin you could buy
20:10
*option
20:10
<warren>
it is still much faster and more capable than most of the others, despite its age
20:11
too bad the X driver locks up when you try to use DRI
20:11
<ogra>
i doubt schools would buy 170 if they can have 150's for a lot less
20:11
<warren>
oh?
20:11
ogra, I don't see 150's for sale.
20:12
<ogra>
they are done ... but were aroud the same as the t1220
20:12
<warren>
hmm.. for some reason the Etherboot version of 170 costs $15 more
20:12
<ogra>
so you saved 50-80 bucks
20:12
yeah, it needs the additional ROM
20:12
<warren>
too bad, I thought the reason to go with Etherboot instead of PXE is to save a little in licensing cost
20:12
<ogra>
which is likely $5 for the chip plus the time you invest to burn it
20:13
not today anymoore where nearly every new card comes PXE capable
20:14* ogra hasnt seen a laptop without PXE anymore ... since he started with LTSP
20:14
<warren>
too bad the T1000 is pretty unusable
20:14
<ogra>
well
20:14
<warren>
I really like the formfactor
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20:16
<warren>
The VIA 3D is fast enough for basic compiz
20:17
if it would work...
20:17
I tried to at least make it not deadlock (and just fail instead)
20:17
<ogra>
well, did you try all three different drivers that are around for it ?
20:17
<warren>
I think the part that deadlocks in the kernel
20:17
ogra, tried two of them
20:17
<ogra>
there are openchrome, unichrome and via
20:17
<warren>
ogra, via 2D works, 3D doesn't. openchrome neither works. didn't try unichrome
20:17
<ogra>
openchrome might work ...
20:17
it gets at least the 2D accel rught in ubuntu
20:18
*right
20:18
<warren>
2D accel on via works fine with via
20:18
er
20:18
I hear that the reason those projects forked is entirely due to personality disputes
20:18
<ogra>
yep
20:18
its a shame
20:19
someone with a lot of spare time should sit down and just merge them
20:19
<warren>
well, I'll try unichrome now
20:19
but I doubt it will work
20:20
I'd settle for getting 2D accel without deadlocks if you try 3D
20:20
<ogra>
we blacklist the via driver generally in ubuntu for 3D
20:20
you have to forcefully enable it
20:21
too many bad bugs during the compiz test phase
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20:22* ogra really turned into an intel fan over time
20:25
<warren>
ogra, everyone did =)
20:26
<ogra>
heh
20:26
<warren>
ogra, Fedora doesn't blacklist 3D on via because if we do, nobody will fix it
20:26
<ogra>
well, we dont switch on compiz on via ...
20:26
<warren>
ogra, after one year of suffering with it, I think I can at least make it fail properly instead of locking up.
20:26
ogra, blacklist 3D in our case means "turn off DRI by default"
20:26
ogra, ah I see
20:26
<ogra>
same for us
20:27
but we base the compiz capability on the existence of DIR *and* a whitelist for drivers that are known to wok out of the box
20:27
*work
20:32
anyway, 3:30 am ... bed time ...
20:33
<johnny>
hm..
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22:04
<warren>
dan__t, btw, nash from Fedora's package is incompatible with the mkinitrd branch I created.
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23:51
<daduke>
vagrantc: Hi. I'm just trying again to ltsp-build-client on etch. After all the configuring and unpacking, it starts getting ltsp-client from aliloth.debian.org, builds the dep tree, then: Some packages could not be installed. [..] The following packages have unmet dependencies:
23:51
ltsp-client: Depends: pulseaudio-esound-compat but it is not going to be installed.