IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 March 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:44
<cyberorg>
warren, what does ltsp-client-launch do?
01:11
<johnny_>
looks like the rootpass common file isn't common for gentoo :)
01:11
guess i should override it
01:11
our chroot is in /usr/bin/chroot not /usr/sbin
01:13
<cyberorg>
it would make our lives so much easier if all distros sit together and use same names and locations for all their packages
01:30
<johnny_>
i don't see that as being feasible sadly
01:30
like the usage of libexec dir
01:30
or how to do runlevels
01:31
seems like we could easily fix this situation with a variable
01:32
i made it all the way to rootpass without a problem :)
01:32
build is almost complete i think
01:32
except the silly kernel :(
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04:44* johnny wonders who is awake
04:52
<yanu>
me to :)
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09:00
<vagrantc>
warren: looking at mkdst ... seems like --from-tag assumes a $NAME-$VERSION format for the tag?
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09:10
<vagrantc>
warren: i'm committing a debtar command, as it needs to output a different tarball name ...
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11:08
<warren>
vagrantc, how different?
11:14
vagrantc_, uh...
11:15
vagrantc_, the entire point of a tarball is for it to be a single upstream tarball
11:15
<vagrantc_>
warren: it merely uses a different tarball name
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11:15
<vagrantc_>
warren: generates the same file ...
11:15
<warren>
vagrantc_, debian renames all tarballs from elsewhere?
11:16
vagrantc_, from upstream elsewhere?
11:16
<vagrantc_>
warren: NAME_VERSION.orig.tar.gz
11:16
warren: as opposed to NAME-VERSION.tar.gz
11:17
<warren>
vagrantc_, debian downloads tarballs from elsewhere and renames them before uploading them to their own source repository?
11:18
<vagrantc_>
warren: correct.
11:18
<warren>
OK, I find that strange, but if hte contents are same then I guess OK.
11:20
<vagrantc_>
warren: i merely patched it so it was possible to generate a tarball with a different name. no changes to contents.
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14:48
<johnny>
is thre a reason chroot is called by full path in some places, and not others?
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14:51
<jammcq>
nobios: hey, will you be at FISL ?
14:52
<nobios>
jammcq: not this year
14:52
<johnny>
vagrantc_, you here?
14:53
<jammcq>
hmm, I'll be there again
14:53
<nobios>
jammcq: I get a lot of work, and will not have time this year
14:54
<jammcq>
it's good to have alot of work
14:54
<nobios>
jammcq: good and bad ;)
14:54
jammcq: but my friends will probably be there...
14:58
<johnny>
well the common scripts were almost common enough :)
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15:21
<vagrantc_>
johnny: what's up?
15:21
<johnny>
is there a reason the common/095-rootpass uses fullpath to chroot?
15:21
<vagrantc_>
probably not
15:21
oh
15:21
well...
15:22
no
15:22
johnny: is that an issue for you?
15:22
<johnny>
yes
15:22
gentoo's chroot is in /usr/bin
15:22
<vagrantc_>
heh
15:22
<johnny>
maybe we should provide some common variables for these commands?
15:23
in some ini type file
15:23
outside of the plugin scripts
15:23
<vagrantc_>
i've actually worked on writing a wrapper or function to replace chroot
15:23
<johnny>
this would also be similiar to the nc/netcat discussion
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15:29
<johnny>
YAY!
15:29
info: LTSP client installation completed successfully
15:30
now time to build the kernel..
15:30
there is this tho
15:30
RROR: Neither /var/log/messages nor /var/log/syslog exists. Unable to log.
15:31
too bad the error doesn't say where it comes from :(
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15:32
<vagrantc_>
johnny: ltsp-update-sshkeys
15:32
<johnny>
i was gonna grep after i ranted :)
15:33
i use metalog on my desktop..
15:33
cuz it comes with the best default config file, and has an nice directory layout
15:34
<vagrantc_>
there is such inconsistant use of logging in the various projects (ltsp, ldm, ltspfs)
15:34makghosh is now known as makghosh|afk
15:34
<vagrantc_>
that would be a great meta-project
15:34
<johnny>
metalog doesn't have network logging tho
15:35
so, i guess i'll install syslog-ng
15:35
at least now i know the issue
15:35
<vagrantc_>
rsyslog also looks promising
15:35
<johnny>
why?
15:35
you mean for the clients?
15:35
<vagrantc_>
instead of syslog-ng ...
15:35
<johnny>
we have no ebuild for that, i've never heard of it
15:35
search tiem
15:36
<vagrantc_>
i got the impression syslog-ng was dead upstream
15:36
maybe it's active again
15:37
<johnny>
aha.. now default in fedora
15:37
and we don't even have an ebuild..
15:37
:(
15:37
<vagrantc_>
syslog-ng has two release-critical bugs on debian
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15:38
<johnny>
will debian switch?
15:38
<vagrantc_>
one of them 283 days old
15:38
<johnny>
so, what was this chroot script you spoke of?
15:39
<vagrantc_>
well, some things (at least in debian) need /proc mounted, and /dev/pts mounted, etc ... so writing an ltsp-chroot binary that ensures those are mounted and unmounts them when done (if nothing else is using the mounts)
15:39
could probably introduce other hooks as well
15:40
<johnny>
to do what?
15:40
i mean, what would ltsp-chroot be used for?
15:40
<ogra_cmpc_>
open a shell in the chroot
15:40
<johnny>
for?
15:40
other than installing packages
15:40
<ogra_cmpc_>
with all prerequisites fulfilled
15:40
<vagrantc_>
johnny: did you miss the part about needing /proc and /dev/pts mounted?
15:40
<johnny>
for ? just dpkg ?
15:41
or what else
15:41
<ogra_cmpc_>
configuring
15:41
modifying
15:41
adjusting
15:41
<vagrantc_>
johnny: well, because i'm not omniscient, and know that, i know *sometimes* people need things i can't think of, so if i need a special case, i make my special case a hook so others who have different needs can easily add to it
15:42
<johnny>
i wasn't denigrating, just wondering
15:42
i've often modified my chroot, but usually just files
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15:43* ogra_cmpc_ just installed to a SDHC card on the classmate ... that thing is faster than my 4200rpm laptop disk
15:45
<johnny>
when do you think you will push said script?
15:45
if not soon, could you remove the path from chroot for me?
15:45
<ogra_cmpc_>
its up somewhere
15:45
<vagrantc_>
i think it's probably better to start from scratch, there are so many changes
15:46* ogra_cmpc_ will release http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-image-shell/ after hardy is out
15:46
<vagrantc_>
we could also have it detect which chroot to use
15:46
<ogra_cmpc_>
well
15:46
<johnny>
so, do you guys all mark ltsp-build-client executable in your packages?
15:46
<vagrantc_>
ah, you're talking about that thingy
15:46
<johnny>
is there a reason you couldn't just mark it +x in the branch?
15:47
<vagrantc_>
johnny: to the explicit purpose of being stubborn. :P
15:47
<johnny>
that's silly :(
15:49
<vagrantc_>
johnny: committed.
15:49
<johnny>
the codebrowse is broken on launchpad again :(
15:49
<ogra_cmpc_>
url ?
15:50
<johnny>
PROXY ERROR
15:50
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/changes
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15:50
<ogra_cmpc_>
might be in maintenance mode
15:50
its weekend :)
15:51
<johnny>
so, what did you commit ?
15:51
<ogra_cmpc_>
thats where they usually add patches
15:51
<johnny>
so i can back out my changes
15:51
weekend is my workend :)
15:51
<ogra_cmpc_>
not mine (officially)
15:51
<johnny>
now i just get to build the kernel, and i might have a booting client.. :)
15:51
<vagrantc_>
johnny: your +x
15:52
<johnny>
how about the chroot thing?
15:52* ogra_cmpc_ is just here because he plays with new embedded HW
15:52
<vagrantc_>
johnny: ltsp-chroot is a complicated proposal i can't just whip up off the top of my head
15:52
but i could make the path relative in common scripts
15:53
johnny: can your average user actually use chroot on a regular basis?
15:54
seems like a bug to have it in /usr/bin to me
15:54
<ogra_cmpc_>
woah
15:54
that would be evil
15:54* vagrantc_ has higher expectations for evil
15:54
<vagrantc_>
it would just be annoying
15:55
<ogra_cmpc_>
if normal users cvan create chroots right away ?
15:55
i consider that evil
15:55
<vagrantc_>
heh
15:55
well, you don't use chroot to create a chroot ... just to switch to it
15:56
<ogra_cmpc_>
well, cp is your frind
15:56
friend
15:56
<vagrantc_>
without root permissions, there's not really anything you could do with the chroot binary you couldn't do on the system itself.
15:56
<ogra_cmpc_>
then just compile the latest rootkit in your chroot and go ahead
15:57
you can use it to probe and abue vulnerabilities
15:57
*abuse
15:58* vagrantc_ doesn't see how chroot really makes that any easier
15:58
<ogra_cmpc_>
you can build a dedicated sywstem
15:58
<vagrantc_>
you can do that without chroot just as easily
15:58
<ogra_cmpc_>
nothing you do will show up in the system logs for example
15:59* vagrantc_ sees no improvement
15:59
<ogra_cmpc_>
you never hacked eh ?
16:00
if you want to take over a system you dont want traces of that
16:00
<vagrantc_>
well, you can build your own binaries on the system itself that leave no trace of anything as well
16:00
<ogra_cmpc_>
a chroot decouples yu from the main system
16:02
saves you to clean up
16:02
<vagrantc_>
could just as easily do that with a custom shell
16:02
probably considerably easier
16:02
<ogra_cmpc_>
probably
16:03
<johnny>
either way..
16:04
<ogra_cmpc_>
the chaos computer club in germany has a contest every year where teams try to hack each other ,,, very intresting
16:04
<johnny>
my chroot is in /usr/bin, and has been such since iv'e used the distro iirc
16:05
<vagrantc_>
johnny: i don't dispute that.
16:05
johnny: i dispute weather it's useful to have it there ... wonder if gentoo does something to make it useful.
16:06
johnny: and either way, i've made it a relative path in the script
16:07
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc_, err
16:07* ogra_cmpc_ just saw the change
16:07
<ogra_cmpc_>
warren might not be happy (he added that deliberately)
16:07
we didnt call it with path
16:07
thats a patch from eric
16:08
<johnny>
perhaps some config variable then?
16:10
<vagrantc_>
johnny: you know you can override common plugins by putting your version in your Gentoo directory
16:10
<johnny>
i wasn't sure how that worked
16:10
whatever makes people happy..
16:10
<vagrantc_>
johnny: same filenames, your distro dir will make it work
16:11
johnny: er, take precedence
16:11
<johnny>
sorry, still learnin here :)
16:12
<vagrantc_>
i.e. Gentoo/095-rootpass will run instead of common/095-rootpass
16:13
i should have paid attention
16:13
it seems silly to have it hard-coded
16:14
but i guess someone explicitly wanted it
16:14
warren: sorry about that
16:14
<johnny>
considering it's not hardcoded at all in debian
16:14
or ubuntu
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16:14
<johnny>
just in fedora
16:14
<vagrantc_>
just in common
16:15
pfft. and fedora even has their own 095-rootpass
16:15
<johnny>
so then we don't revert?
16:15
or we do?
16:15
<vagrantc_>
i'll leave it for now
16:16
i don't think our scripts should handle if people have wonky paths for root
16:16
er, wonky $PATH settings
16:19
<ogra_cmpc_>
vagrantc_, i think the addition of the path predates the 095-rootpass plugin
16:19
(/usr/sbi to chroot i mean)
16:19
*sbin
16:19
<vagrantc_>
ogra_cmpc_: no, it was added in recent fedora commits.
16:19
<ogra_cmpc_>
thats weird
16:20
i thought i saw it before and then warren added the plugin
16:20
<vagrantc_>
when you mentioned it, i looked at the commit logs
16:20
or do you mean fedora's rootpass plugin?
16:20
<ogra_cmpc_>
yeah, i probably just remember it wrongly
16:20
nope
16:21* vagrantc_ ponders a new ltsp upload to debian
16:21
<ogra_cmpc_>
go ahead :)
16:21
<vagrantc_>
finally hit testing
16:21
<ogra_cmpc_>
congrats
16:21
<vagrantc_>
heh
16:22
of course, ldm's stalled out on slow buildd's :(
16:22
even with an RC security bug
16:22
<ogra_cmpc_>
if you release in september you will actually be ahead of me once (in released versions)
16:22
<vagrantc_>
heh
16:23
but there will probably be 2-3 months of freeze
16:23
<ogra_cmpc_>
right
16:23
but if the release is in sept, you release before ubuntu
16:23
<vagrantc_>
but i guess you have comparable freeze
16:23
<ogra_cmpc_>
oct 10th
16:23
is release dat
16:23
e
16:23* vagrantc_ hopes for september
16:24
<ogra_cmpc_>
no idea about the schedule yet sice they try to improve it all the time its constantly changing
16:24
so our freezes might be similar
16:24
<vagrantc_>
early in the month gives you a couple weeks to postpone and still call it 8.10
16:25
it'd be slick if we could actually release sync'ed :)
16:25
<ogra_cmpc_>
we only postponed one release yet (and i hope that wont happen again)
16:25
all others were on time at the planned date
16:26
so its unliikely that it will be delayed
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19:47
<cdealer>
good night. Beside the ssh and tftp ports what other ports must be open so the server and the client can be connect whtout problems?
20:29
<vagrantc_>
cdealer: what linux distro and release?
20:33
<cdealer>
ubuntu gutsy 7.10 ltsp 5
20:42
<vagrantc_>
cdealer: look at services in /etc/inet.d/conf ...
20:43
cdealer: should be a block relating to LTSP
20:43
cdealer: egrep 'nbdrootd|nbdswapd|ldminfod' /etc/inetd.conf
20:52
<cdealer>
oh thanks!
20:57
<vagrantc_>
i think that covers all the LTSP-specific stuff
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