IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 12 August 2017 (all times are UTC)
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| 11:31 | <sksgmbh> hi from germany... maybe someone here can help me towards a question. Is it possible to redirect serial ports from clients to a server with LTSP?
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| 14:01 | <SRX> hi
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> Hello
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> vagrantc: heya! Ready to try the first upload?
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| 14:48 | <vagrantc> alkisg: haven't looked in a few days, but can look today
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| 14:48 | alkisg: haven't seemed to cross paths too much
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> I've just uploaded the postinst => initial-setup.sh migration
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| 14:48 | So it should now be in an uploadable state
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| 14:49 | I kept some stuff in postrm, check it out, I think it's a good idea to undo the dpkg-diverts on purge...
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| 14:51 | <vagrantc> alkisg: somehow you went back in time and undid the changes to postrm so you updated the copyright? :P
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> Haha I copy/pasted from sch-scripts, what did I leave there?
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| 14:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you reverted from copyright up to 2017 back to 2015 :)
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 14:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: hrm... the purge stuff looks not so policy compliant...
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| 14:54 | at least at a first glance ...
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I don't mind doing it however you feel it's best, but I wouldn't want to leave dpkg-diverted packages after the uninstallation...
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| 14:55 | Maybe some of them are policy compliant and some aren't?
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| 14:56 | <vagrantc> the main issue is dirverting configuration for other packages
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> I can of course create an additional "run before uninstall" menu, but I'm not sure it's ok to leave dpkg-diverted packages in case the sysadmin doesn't go to that menu...
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| 14:56 | <vagrantc> or other files ... especially for the use-case you mention of someone wanting to just use this to edit users
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| 14:56 | alkisg: i'll look at it more in-depth, but just wanted to give you some impressions
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> Sure, thanks. When you're ready, give me the final verdict :)
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| 14:58 | vagrantc: If he just wants to edit users, he will omit the "initial-setup.sh" menu. So then postinst won't do anything.
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| 14:58 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but you feel it's basically ready to go? :)
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> postinst only undoes the actions that initial-setup did, and especially the ones that are safely undoable
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| 14:59 | I feel that it's in an alpha state where I'd like other people testing it
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> E.g. if fottsia does the documentation, I'm OK to call the outreachy project done for now; of course more development will be needed later on, but it's in a testable state
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> right
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| 15:03 | share/ltsp-manager/import_dialog.py: col_pixbuf = Gtk.TreeViewColumn("Κατάσταση", Gtk.CellRendererPixbuf(), stock_id=60)
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> Ah right let me check for any greek strings...
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| 15:04 | <vagrantc> and ltsp-manager.8 manpage needs to be translated still
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| 15:04 | * vagrantc even filed a bug report | |
| 15:04 | <alkisg> ty, on to those...
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| 15:04 | Haha
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> git grep α | grep -v ^po
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| 15:05 | alkisg: you think foteini could translate the man page?
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> It's already translated
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| 15:05 | I just need to run help2man
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> ah!
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> (and at some point in the *future*, see how to ship localized man pages...)
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we could just generate manpages at build time
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> True, but let's leave that for later on:)
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 15:07 | alkisg: you might still need a ppa or something, not sure how long it will sit in the NEW queue
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> No worries, I have a recipe that uploads it to ppa:alkisg daily
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| 15:07 | It's ok for debian too
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| 15:12 | <vagrantc> alkisg: lintian really doesn't like doing diversions in postrm that weren't done in postinst
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| 15:12 | * vagrantc will have to think that over | |
| 15:14 | <vagrantc> alkisg: a more minor issue, dropping the extension on the .sh files ... lintian complains a bit there
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> vagrantc: xgettext doesn't detect shell files if they don't have a shell extension
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| 15:14 | What's lintian's complain?
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> e.g. https://lintian.debian.org/tags/executable-not-elf-or-script.html
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ah, maybe I chmod +x some .sh file that's sourced and doesn't have a shebang?
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> alkisg: maybe
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> OK a chmod -x will solve that
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> the diversions are definitely harder.
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> If we wanted to tell xgettext that some scripts are shell scripts, we'd need to (1) use xgettext for all files that it can autodetect, and then (2) use it again with --language=shell, and merge the result with the.pot file from step (1)
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| 15:19 | ...and it sounded easier to just do it however it prefers, rather than blacklisting/whitelisting files
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| 15:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yes, if chmod -x solves the issue, that's fine
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| 15:19 | :
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| 15:19 | :)
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| 15:19 | <alkisg> I don't see any such script though
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| 15:19 | Let me run debuild...
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| 15:19 | <vagrantc> ./share/ltsp-manager/initial-setup.sh
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| 15:19 | ./share/ltsp-manager/run-in-terminal.sh
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| 15:19 | ./share/ltsp-manager/common.sh
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| 15:19 | i think there are those
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> Here it only complains about initial-setup.sh, and it's right, I forgot the shebang :D
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> it needs a shebang?
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> Sure, that one is to be executed, not sourced
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| 15:22 | <vagrantc> yay for lintian!
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> I don't know why it complains about the other 2 scripts for you though
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| 15:22 | <vagrantc> it doesn't, i just looks at those
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> run-in-terminal.sh does have a shebang and is an executable,
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| 15:22 | ah ok
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| 15:22 | <vagrantc> er, i just searched for *.sh
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| 15:24 | alkisg: ah, i think dh_fixperms is removing it
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> vagrantc: pushed
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| 15:27 | <vagrantc> run-in-terminal.sh was the problematic one...
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> Hm? Not for me...
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| 15:28 | Now running lintian...
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| 15:28 | E: ltsp-manager: remove-of-unknown-diversion * postrm:52
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| 15:28 | Finished running lintian.
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| 15:28 | That's all from lintian
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| 15:28 | <vagrantc> ah, worked for me too
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> So, https://lintian.debian.org/tags/remove-of-unknown-diversion.html implies that we're allowed to use dpkg-divert in postrm, as long as it was a "known diversion"?
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| 15:29 | ...and since we only undo diversions that belong in the ltsp-manager package, we can just find a way around that notice?
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| 15:29 | <vagrantc> the use of diversions may not really be proper
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> I'm a sysadmin and I want to avoid tilda
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| 15:30 | I think the best way there is dpkg-divert, to also avoid package updates
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| 15:30 | Now, from sysadmin to user initiated actions in ltsp-manager... how different is that?
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| 15:32 | (btw, tilda was removed in later versions, so it's a sane thing to do :))
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| 15:33 | (network-manager bind-interfaces wasn't; that will be removed in a couple of more ubuntu releases :D)
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> well, here you're using a tool that has two use-cases: packages, which is handled in preinst/postinst/postrm ... local sysadmin, which is handled by the sysadmin
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> Indeed. Of course we could do the dpkg-diversions in postinst, but that feels worse
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> ltsp-manager is effectively a frontend for the sysadmin
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| 15:34 | tilda was a package?
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> /etc/skel/.config/autostart/tilda.desktop is shipped by the ubuntu-mate-welcome package
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc> technically, leaing them diverted might, in some bizarre way, be the "right" thing to do
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| 15:35 | well, policy-wise ...
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> What about the configuration editing?
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| 15:35 | E.g. we modify network manager config to use dnsmasq as a dns server
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| 15:35 | Are we supposed to undo that, or leave it broken?
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| 15:36 | Because if dnsmasq gets purged, dns won't work anymore...
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| 15:36 | (tilda is a package, but the 'autostart' was imposed by ubuntu-mate-welcome... a silly thing to do, which was removed in more recent versions)
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| 15:37 | I don't mind having a gui menu for the sysadmin to run "our preinst" before removing ltsp-manager
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| 15:37 | But if he doesn't run that before removal, e.g. dns will be broken
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| 15:37 | <vagrantc> e.g. nobody will ever remove the package :)
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| 15:37 | right
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| 15:38 | while kind of ugly, that might be the best thing to do
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> So if the policy allows, I'd prefer to leave his system in a consistent state
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| 15:38 | Right
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc> the sshd_config editing in postrm is definitely not allowed
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> Even if it was a change that we did, and we marked it with a special comment etc?
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| 15:39 | <vagrantc> even so
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> How is it different from undoing the networkmanager.conf change?
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| 15:39 | Both are other package's conffiles...
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| 15:40 | <vagrantc> yes, any time you edit another packages conffiles or configuration files manually from maintainer scripts, it's a policy violation
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| 15:40 | if the package provides a mechanism such as a /etc/foo.d dir where you can drop snippits under your own control, that's fine
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> I thought you agreed that we shouldn't break the user's dns
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| 15:41 | <vagrantc> or if they provide a tool to customize the config, that's fine too
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> I don't mind
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| 15:41 | OK, so I leave networkmanager.conf broken, np....
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| 15:41 | <vagrantc> yes, i recognize it's not great
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> I'll move all those to a gui menu, and tell fottsia to document in the wiki that users should run it before uninstalling ltsp-manager
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| 15:42 | <vagrantc> but it also means there's no risk if they install ltsp-manager, uninstall/purge it, and maybe a bug in our scripts breaks their system
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> No, it's certain that their system will be broken, there's no risk involved when there's 100% breakage posibility :D
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| 15:42 | <vagrantc> it would definitely fit policy better that way, even though it has some undesireable consequences
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| 15:43 | alkisg: if they never run ltsp-manager, then it shouldn't break their system
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> True
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| 15:43 | I'll also make a note about the uninstall action in initial-setup.sh
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| 15:43 | I.e. a user warning there
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> it's only once the system administrator has used the configuration file editor called "ltsp-manager" that they then have to revert changes that it did manually
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| 15:43 | yes, that would be good
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> Note though that postinst only undoes very specific bits, marked with "commented by ltsp-manager:" and with the initial line kept there etc etc
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> we should also document it in a /usr/share/doc/README (maybe just cat the readme or something from initial-setup.sh)
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> So the risk was minimal
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> i get that, but it's still a policy violation
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> OK
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| 15:46 | <vagrantc> the policy is pretty strict, and it's not perfect, but in general works well
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| 15:46 | alkisg: where have you been hiding anyways? i don't have any talks to attend till after lunch
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> Always at the noisy lab!
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| 15:47 | Where are you?
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> alkisg: where always does not include when i go looking for you there :)
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| 15:47 | * vagrantc will head over there now | |
| 15:47 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 15:47 | * vagrantc waves | |
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