IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 12 August 2017   (all times are UTC)

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11:31
<sksgmbh>
hi from germany... maybe someone here can help me towards a question. Is it possible to redirect serial ports from clients to a server with LTSP?
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14:01
<SRX>
hi
14:03
<alkisg>
Hello
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14:47
<alkisg>
vagrantc: heya! Ready to try the first upload?
14:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: haven't looked in a few days, but can look today
14:48
alkisg: haven't seemed to cross paths too much
14:48
<alkisg>
I've just uploaded the postinst => initial-setup.sh migration
14:48
So it should now be in an uploadable state
14:49
I kept some stuff in postrm, check it out, I think it's a good idea to undo the dpkg-diverts on purge...
14:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: somehow you went back in time and undid the changes to postrm so you updated the copyright? :P
14:51
<alkisg>
Haha I copy/pasted from sch-scripts, what did I leave there?
14:52
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you reverted from copyright up to 2017 back to 2015 :)
14:52
<alkisg>
Hehe
14:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: hrm... the purge stuff looks not so policy compliant...
14:54
at least at a first glance ...
14:55
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I don't mind doing it however you feel it's best, but I wouldn't want to leave dpkg-diverted packages after the uninstallation...
14:55
Maybe some of them are policy compliant and some aren't?
14:56
<vagrantc>
the main issue is dirverting configuration for other packages
14:56
<alkisg>
I can of course create an additional "run before uninstall" menu, but I'm not sure it's ok to leave dpkg-diverted packages in case the sysadmin doesn't go to that menu...
14:56
<vagrantc>
or other files ... especially for the use-case you mention of someone wanting to just use this to edit users
14:56
alkisg: i'll look at it more in-depth, but just wanted to give you some impressions
14:57
<alkisg>
Sure, thanks. When you're ready, give me the final verdict :)
14:58
vagrantc: If he just wants to edit users, he will omit the "initial-setup.sh" menu. So then postinst won't do anything.
14:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: but you feel it's basically ready to go? :)
14:59
<alkisg>
postinst only undoes the actions that initial-setup did, and especially the ones that are safely undoable
14:59
I feel that it's in an alpha state where I'd like other people testing it
15:01
<vagrantc>
sure
15:01
<alkisg>
E.g. if fottsia does the documentation, I'm OK to call the outreachy project done for now; of course more development will be needed later on, but it's in a testable state
15:01
<vagrantc>
right
15:03
share/ltsp-manager/import_dialog.py: col_pixbuf = Gtk.TreeViewColumn("Κατάσταση", Gtk.CellRendererPixbuf(), stock_id=60)
15:04
<alkisg>
Ah right let me check for any greek strings...
15:04
<vagrantc>
and ltsp-manager.8 manpage needs to be translated still
15:04* vagrantc even filed a bug report
15:04
<alkisg>
ty, on to those...
15:04
Haha
15:05
<vagrantc>
git grep α | grep -v ^po
15:05
alkisg: you think foteini could translate the man page?
15:05
<alkisg>
It's already translated
15:05
I just need to run help2man
15:05
<vagrantc>
ah!
15:06
<alkisg>
(and at some point in the *future*, see how to ship localized man pages...)
15:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: we could just generate manpages at build time
15:06
<alkisg>
True, but let's leave that for later on:)
15:06
<vagrantc>
sure
15:07
alkisg: you might still need a ppa or something, not sure how long it will sit in the NEW queue
15:07
<alkisg>
No worries, I have a recipe that uploads it to ppa:alkisg daily
15:07
It's ok for debian too
15:12
<vagrantc>
alkisg: lintian really doesn't like doing diversions in postrm that weren't done in postinst
15:12* vagrantc will have to think that over
15:14
<vagrantc>
alkisg: a more minor issue, dropping the extension on the .sh files ... lintian complains a bit there
15:14
<alkisg>
vagrantc: xgettext doesn't detect shell files if they don't have a shell extension
15:14
What's lintian's complain?
15:15
<vagrantc>
e.g. https://lintian.debian.org/tags/executable-not-elf-or-script.html
15:15
<alkisg>
vagrantc: ah, maybe I chmod +x some .sh file that's sourced and doesn't have a shebang?
15:15
<vagrantc>
alkisg: maybe
15:15
<alkisg>
OK a chmod -x will solve that
15:15
<vagrantc>
the diversions are definitely harder.
15:18
<alkisg>
If we wanted to tell xgettext that some scripts are shell scripts, we'd need to (1) use xgettext for all files that it can autodetect, and then (2) use it again with --language=shell, and merge the result with the.pot file from step (1)
15:19
...and it sounded easier to just do it however it prefers, rather than blacklisting/whitelisting files
15:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, if chmod -x solves the issue, that's fine
15:19
:
15:19
:)
15:19
<alkisg>
I don't see any such script though
15:19
Let me run debuild...
15:19
<vagrantc>
./share/ltsp-manager/initial-setup.sh
15:19
./share/ltsp-manager/run-in-terminal.sh
15:19
./share/ltsp-manager/common.sh
15:19
i think there are those
15:20
<alkisg>
Here it only complains about initial-setup.sh, and it's right, I forgot the shebang :D
15:21
<vagrantc>
it needs a shebang?
15:21
<alkisg>
Sure, that one is to be executed, not sourced
15:22
<vagrantc>
yay for lintian!
15:22
<alkisg>
I don't know why it complains about the other 2 scripts for you though
15:22
<vagrantc>
it doesn't, i just looks at those
15:22
<alkisg>
run-in-terminal.sh does have a shebang and is an executable,
15:22
ah ok
15:22
<vagrantc>
er, i just searched for *.sh
15:24
alkisg: ah, i think dh_fixperms is removing it
15:26
<alkisg>
vagrantc: pushed
15:27
<vagrantc>
run-in-terminal.sh was the problematic one...
15:27
<alkisg>
Hm? Not for me...
15:28
Now running lintian...
15:28
E: ltsp-manager: remove-of-unknown-diversion * postrm:52
15:28
Finished running lintian.
15:28
That's all from lintian
15:28
<vagrantc>
ah, worked for me too
15:28
<alkisg>
So, https://lintian.debian.org/tags/remove-of-unknown-diversion.html implies that we're allowed to use dpkg-divert in postrm, as long as it was a "known diversion"?
15:29
...and since we only undo diversions that belong in the ltsp-manager package, we can just find a way around that notice?
15:29
<vagrantc>
the use of diversions may not really be proper
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15:30
<alkisg>
I'm a sysadmin and I want to avoid tilda
15:30
I think the best way there is dpkg-divert, to also avoid package updates
15:30
Now, from sysadmin to user initiated actions in ltsp-manager... how different is that?
15:32
(btw, tilda was removed in later versions, so it's a sane thing to do :))
15:33
(network-manager bind-interfaces wasn't; that will be removed in a couple of more ubuntu releases :D)
15:33
<vagrantc>
well, here you're using a tool that has two use-cases: packages, which is handled in preinst/postinst/postrm ... local sysadmin, which is handled by the sysadmin
15:33
<alkisg>
Indeed. Of course we could do the dpkg-diversions in postinst, but that feels worse
15:33
<vagrantc>
ltsp-manager is effectively a frontend for the sysadmin
15:34
tilda was a package?
15:34
<alkisg>
/etc/skel/.config/autostart/tilda.desktop is shipped by the ubuntu-mate-welcome package
15:35
<vagrantc>
technically, leaing them diverted might, in some bizarre way, be the "right" thing to do
15:35
well, policy-wise ...
15:35
<alkisg>
What about the configuration editing?
15:35
E.g. we modify network manager config to use dnsmasq as a dns server
15:35
Are we supposed to undo that, or leave it broken?
15:36
Because if dnsmasq gets purged, dns won't work anymore...
15:36
(tilda is a package, but the 'autostart' was imposed by ubuntu-mate-welcome... a silly thing to do, which was removed in more recent versions)
15:37
I don't mind having a gui menu for the sysadmin to run "our preinst" before removing ltsp-manager
15:37
But if he doesn't run that before removal, e.g. dns will be broken
15:37
<vagrantc>
e.g. nobody will ever remove the package :)
15:37
right
15:38
while kind of ugly, that might be the best thing to do
15:38
<alkisg>
So if the policy allows, I'd prefer to leave his system in a consistent state
15:38
Right
15:38
<vagrantc>
the sshd_config editing in postrm is definitely not allowed
15:38
<alkisg>
Even if it was a change that we did, and we marked it with a special comment etc?
15:39
<vagrantc>
even so
15:39
<alkisg>
How is it different from undoing the networkmanager.conf change?
15:39
Both are other package's conffiles...
15:40
<vagrantc>
yes, any time you edit another packages conffiles or configuration files manually from maintainer scripts, it's a policy violation
15:40
if the package provides a mechanism such as a /etc/foo.d dir where you can drop snippits under your own control, that's fine
15:41
<alkisg>
I thought you agreed that we shouldn't break the user's dns
15:41
<vagrantc>
or if they provide a tool to customize the config, that's fine too
15:41
<alkisg>
I don't mind
15:41
OK, so I leave networkmanager.conf broken, np....
15:41
<vagrantc>
yes, i recognize it's not great
15:41
<alkisg>
I'll move all those to a gui menu, and tell fottsia to document in the wiki that users should run it before uninstalling ltsp-manager
15:42
<vagrantc>
but it also means there's no risk if they install ltsp-manager, uninstall/purge it, and maybe a bug in our scripts breaks their system
15:42
<alkisg>
No, it's certain that their system will be broken, there's no risk involved when there's 100% breakage posibility :D
15:42
<vagrantc>
it would definitely fit policy better that way, even though it has some undesireable consequences
15:43
alkisg: if they never run ltsp-manager, then it shouldn't break their system
15:43
<alkisg>
True
15:43
I'll also make a note about the uninstall action in initial-setup.sh
15:43
I.e. a user warning there
15:43
<vagrantc>
it's only once the system administrator has used the configuration file editor called "ltsp-manager" that they then have to revert changes that it did manually
15:43
yes, that would be good
15:44
<alkisg>
Note though that postinst only undoes very specific bits, marked with "commented by ltsp-manager:" and with the initial line kept there etc etc
15:44
<vagrantc>
we should also document it in a /usr/share/doc/README (maybe just cat the readme or something from initial-setup.sh)
15:44
<alkisg>
So the risk was minimal
15:44
<vagrantc>
i get that, but it's still a policy violation
15:44
<alkisg>
OK
15:46
<vagrantc>
the policy is pretty strict, and it's not perfect, but in general works well
15:46
alkisg: where have you been hiding anyways? i don't have any talks to attend till after lunch
15:46
<alkisg>
Always at the noisy lab!
15:47
Where are you?
15:47
<vagrantc>
alkisg: where always does not include when i go looking for you there :)
15:47* vagrantc will head over there now
15:47
<alkisg>
Haha
15:47* vagrantc waves
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