IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 November 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<johnny>
i didn't mean for the x part.. but the file serving part
00:01
altho .. of course.. if it isn't in sshd source directly.. it can't be that useful to any of us
00:01
<sbalneav>
Well, the file serving part doesn't run through ssh
00:01
<johnny>
not now
00:01
somebody recommended i try it.. due to the speed
00:01vagrantc has quit IRC
00:01
<johnny>
nbd is probably faster tho
00:03
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar, brendan0powers: I fixed the qt greeter! It now logs me in to my happy little KDE desktop!
00:03
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: oh, awesome! What was wrong with it? Was it LDM or Greeter side?
00:04
i haven't had time to work on it, like.. at all :(
00:04
<sbalneav>
Ryan52: pix plz kthxbye
00:04
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar, it was both.
00:04
<chrisinajar>
sbalneav: this is a 4chan free zone.
00:04
Ryan52: i don't doubt that at all... what was wrong with the qt side? it seemed to work fine in our tests...
00:05
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar, the ldm side of the changes had lotsa problems, the only problem in the greeter itself was a copy and paste error, nothing big.
00:05
<sbalneav>
they were saying THAT back in the compuserve days, son.
00:05
<chrisinajar>
sbalneav: now != compuserve days
00:05
:-
00:05
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar: when you copied and pasted for the sending the language, you forgot to change "username" to "language" so it was resetting the username to the language, which made login fail.
00:05
<chrisinajar>
P
00:05
haha
00:05
<Ryan52>
you meaning one of you :)
00:05
<chrisinajar>
that's funny...
00:05
Brendan
00:05
<sbalneav>
Look, if I can't use outdated memes, you're taking away the only fun I have.
00:06
<chrisinajar>
Brendan wrote most of the greeter... i wrote the StdIO class and did the ldm stuff...
00:06
hahaha, ok fine sbalneav, have your fun :-P
00:06
But I'll just make xkcd references and make you feel old, just warning you...
00:06
<sbalneav>
Ryan52: how much protocol change was there.
00:07
xkcd's great fun.
00:07
<chrisinajar>
i love it :)
00:07
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: the whole thing :). they said they showed it to you...
00:07
<chrisinajar>
geohashing == teh roxxing
00:07
at least we tried...
00:07
<sbalneav>
yeahm briefly, but it'll be gubbins here who'll have to patch up the gtk greeeeeeeter
00:08
<chrisinajar>
lets just now use the gtk greeter :-D
00:08
<sbalneav>
Sigh, I'll need to do that before we can merge into -trunk
00:08
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: do what? huh?
00:08
<chrisinajar>
once we get themeing working, i'll write a theme to look just like the old one...
00:08Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
00:09
<sbalneav>
Well, since the greeter protocol changed, we'll have to modify the gtk greeter before we can merge in the qt greeter into the trunk, so they can both work and be interchangeable
00:09
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar: there are some other GUI issues that I want to convince you to fix. first of all, if the display isn't 800 by 600, the whole thing isn't centered. second, the language/host/session lists should show some indication as to which one is currently choosen (that's minor, though), third I'll remember later :). mainly the first one is important.
00:10
sbalneav: ya, I've already committed to fixing the gtk greeter.
00:10
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: indeed, that's planned... gui is HORRIBLE right now...
00:10
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar: okay, good. :)
00:10
<sbalneav>
Oh!
00:10
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: just completely ignore it.. it's fucking awful, it's entirely just for prototyping...
00:10
<sbalneav>
Thought I was doing it.
00:10
Nevermind. Carry on seargent major.
00:11
<chrisinajar>
yeah, Ryan52 is the man...
00:11
he makes the world go 'round
00:11
s/world/ldm/g
00:11
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar: no, really, that's sbalneav.
00:12
<sbalneav>
I'm in the early stages of pulling together some developer docs. So far, they mainly consist of my grumpy indent style rantings, and a Norweigian drinking song
00:12
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: yeah but you fixed all my not-knowing-how-to-write-in-any-library-with-a-g-in-it code...
00:12
<sbalneav>
but I'd like to get a formalized "greeter interface spec" put together, and in the doco branch.
00:12
<chrisinajar>
sbalneav: both of those things happened in copeous amounts last weekend!
00:13
sbalneav: i believe i already have that written up :)
00:13
<sbalneav>
Which, the song, or my indent rantings?
00:13
<chrisinajar>
both happened, and i have the specs written up already
00:13
you can organize however you like, i dare not question
00:13
<sbalneav>
Cool. Text file? or docbook?
00:14
<chrisinajar>
textfile, completely flat
00:14
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar: I suggest a small change, though. instead of sending "username @GUEST@", it should just send a command called "guest". previously we couldn't do that because the protocol sucked, but now it's all nice. :)
00:14
<sbalneav>
Bonus, a tabula rasa for me to bend to my iron will.
00:14
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: good call, that'll be easy to implement.
00:15
<sbalneav>
send it to me, that I might defile it with my idiosyncratic tabbing style.
00:15
sbalneav@ltsp.org
00:15
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: there isn't a guest button right now, to the best of my knowledge....
00:15
Ryan52: but the support for that peice is in there
00:15
<Ryan52>
that's good.
00:15* chrisinajar boots up laptop to get the docs
00:16
<sbalneav>
thankee
00:16
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar: is the qt greeter getting the lists of sessions and languages and such from ldminfo or what?
00:16
<sbalneav>
My eyelids are getting heavy, and I've an allday system upgrade tomorrow.
00:16
<chrisinajar>
i'll go through and make sure they're accurate, and add the guest idea...
00:16
<sbalneav>
I'm off to bed.
00:16
night all
00:16
<Ryan52>
sbalneav, night
00:16
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: i think from some file that scott told us to get it from...
00:16
sbalneav: good night
00:17
i'll have some free time tomorrow night in boston, i might go through and clean up some of the qt code and implement the guest function...
00:18
Ryan52: so should guest be sent in place of login?
00:18
<Ryan52>
yes, it should.
00:18
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: so it sends session, language, then "guest"
00:18
<Ryan52>
yes. that and the host. and the button should only be shown if a certain environment variable is set.
00:19* Ryan52 forgets which...look at the docs :)
00:19
<Ryan52>
I only implemented the code! I don't remember it! :P
00:19
<chrisinajar>
haha
00:19
ok, well whenever you figure out that variable i'll make note and implement it at some point...
00:20
i'm good at reading brendan's code, so it should be a problem at all
00:20
er... shouldn't
00:21
<Ryan52>
the var is LDM_GUESTLOGIN. treat it like src/ldm_getenv_bool.c does.
00:21
<chrisinajar>
ok
00:21
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar: why is the directory called qtgreet while the binary produced is called qtgreeter? I think it should be qtgreet since the gtk one is called gtkgreet. mind if I change it?
00:22
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: go for it, any and all build related stuff you have complete freedom to do whatever
00:23
we're just amazed we got it to built at all under autotools
00:23
<Ryan52>
heh. I know, autotools is complicated.
00:23
chrisinajar: oh, there's also the problem that the greeter can't talk to X when it's being ran as nobody. so I just disabled the function that changes user. do you have any idea how to fix that nicely?
00:24
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: have a generic "greeter" user built into the chroot, and setuid to that...
00:24
it's not needed anyway, it's just a security measure...
00:25
<Ryan52>
well, X is started as root, so other users can't talk to it.
00:25
it's not specific to nobody.
00:25
(I think)
00:25
<chrisinajar>
oh
00:25
can X be started by nobody?
00:25
i don't think it can...
00:25
<Ryan52>
no, because ldm runs under x.
00:26
oh, hrm.
00:26
the X running on my (normal) laptop is running as root.
00:26
maybe we just need to pass it an option or something.
00:26
<chrisinajar>
and non-root things are running on it....
00:26
<Ryan52>
yes, I do not log in as root :P
00:26
<chrisinajar>
lemme send this email to sbalneav really quick....
00:31
ok, protocol updated and sent to scott...
00:31
<johnny>
ok.. sweet
00:31
genkernel now has funionfs-fuse support
00:32
<Ryan52>
chrisinajar: when we attempt to merge into trunk latter down the line, try to remind me to either remove or i18n-ize my debug statements.
00:32
<chrisinajar>
i'll see what i can do :-P
00:33
I'm pumped to write the theming... it's going to be cool...
00:33
it will support our custom ini format in addition to optional qt stylesheets...
00:35
<Ryan52>
oh, you should really use an/set up an editor that points out empty lines/trailing whitespace to you.
00:35
ltsp-upstream has a problem with that.
00:35
but the Qt code is horrible.
00:35
(wrt to trailing whitespace)
00:35
<chrisinajar>
i know
00:35
it was written while a little drunk and not much sleep
00:35
brendan's code is ugly as is, i always go through and clean it up
00:35
<Ryan52>
oh, ok, that's a good enough excuse then. :)
00:36
<chrisinajar>
it's incomplete and messy right now...
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00:41
<chrisinajar>
Good night!
00:41
<Ryan52>
bye!
00:42
<chrisinajar>
Ryan52: I'll try to get some stuff done tomorrow on the qt greeter...
00:42
<Ryan52>
kk
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00:55
<Ryan52>
gah. ruby broke me. I'm using " instead of ' for characters
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02:02
<Ryan52>
okay, enough toying with the qt branch for one night. time for sleep.
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03:34
<laga>
hey guys.
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05:27
<alkisg>
Does anyone know of some script to execute a command for all users? E.g. it would enable non-experienced-admins to do something like: forallusers.sh "chown -R $USERNAME:$USERGROUP $USERHOME"
05:39
<nubae>
alkisg: yup... found one online a while ago...
05:39
<alkisg>
nubae, I was just going to make one... save me some hours and find the link, please? :)
05:43
<ogra>
and keep you from learning ?
05:43
:)
05:45
<alkisg>
ogra, not for me... I'm writing a small tutorial about LTSP for Greek teachers, and I'm trying to make things easy for them
05:45
ogra, it'll be about 100 pages, full from installation to backups and user management... but teachers are not admins, so I'm looking to make this as easy as possible
05:48
What do you guys think of webmin? (I've never used it). E.g. if it's as good as it sounds, we could probably do an ltsp-configuration plugin for it
05:54
<nubae>
ls /home | while read user
05:54
do
05:54
  chown -R $user:$user /home/$user || chown -R root:wheel /home/$user
05:54
done
05:54
webmin is great... although lots of ubuntu people hate it
05:55
ubuntu server devs I mean by that
05:55
they talk of ebox, which is really horrible... takes over absolutely everything, very intrusive
05:56
webmin on the other hand just allows u to edit the same config files through a web panel
05:58
<alkisg>
nubae, thanks... but I was talking about a general script, that would handle all commands (not just chown) and provide environment variables like $USERGROUP, $USERHOME etc for each user, so that it would make building new command easier
05:58
e.g. forallusers.sh "rm -rf $USERHOME/.gconf/apps/panel" to reset all the user panels
05:59
<ogra>
?
05:59
<alkisg>
So it would provide USERHOME, USERGROUP, USERNAME, USERREALNAME etc...
05:59
<ogra>
thats not how gconf works
06:00
you cant just delete files
06:00
<alkisg>
ogra, ? :)
06:00
(I'm a bad admin, that's how I do it!!! - what's the appropriate way?)
06:00
<ogra>
you can delete the whole dir and the whole db and cache, but for changing values use gconftool
06:01
<alkisg>
So it's either rm ~/.gconf or gconftool? I'm not supposed to delete dirs inside .gconf?
06:02
<ogra>
right
06:03
there are options like --unset --recursive for gconftool as well :)
06:03
<alkisg>
ogra, so if users messed up their panels pretty bad (added/removed buttons, changed panel position etc) and an admin wants to reset all that, he would have to user gconftool for every panel* configuration... :( This sucks!:P
06:04
ogra, thanks, I'll have to study before writing the manual! :'(
06:04
<ogra>
no, if an admin wants to make sure the users dont mess with the panels he locks them down with pessulus ;)
06:04
and wont have to clean up at all
06:05
<alkisg>
Ah... many things I don't know about linux/ltsp/gnome/ubuntu/etc etc yet... Damn all those windows-wasted years
06:05
<ogra>
sudo pessulus ... make the keys you dont wnat changed default and mandatory ... and be done
06:07
<nubae>
thats hindsight
06:07
:-)
06:08
<alkisg>
Yeap... I'd give many $$$ for 1-2 hours of private lessons by ogra! :D
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06:11
<nubae>
yeah hear hear
06:11
ogra: any plans on a ltsp tuition :D
06:11
I'm sure a bunch of us would pay u good money for something like that
06:12
<ogra>
well, isnt the documentation getting there slowly ?
06:12
<nubae>
well thats for users, but for devs...
06:13
<ogra>
for devs: "read the code"
06:13
if you dont understand the written code you wont be able to change it ...
06:13
<nubae>
right... but read the code along with ogra seems like a better approach :D
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08:24
<alkisg>
nubae, here's a good start: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=1645.0
08:24
Save the script with name="forallusers" and do a chmod +x, then run it with e.g. forallusers chown -R USER_NAME:USER_GROUP USER_HOME
08:25
It doesn't execute anything, it just generates a script, and you may see it, edit it or execute it later
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10:29
<stgraber>
Is it correct to assume that all distro with localapp support and who would like to use the localapps menu will have ltsp-localapps in $PATH ?
10:30
<johnny>
ltsp-localapps goes in /usr/bin.. so yes
10:30
<stgraber>
johnny: Ubuntu didn't have it in /usr/bin, I only moved it there in my current package
10:30
<johnny>
hmm.. where did it have it?
10:31
<stgraber>
/usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/ltsp-localapps
10:31
<johnny>
ok.. yeah
10:31
i guess ogra didn't feel it was ready to actually put in /usr/bin yet, since it is not properly integrated
10:32
<stgraber>
yeah
10:32
<ogra>
stgraber, feel free to move it
10:33
<stgraber>
btw, any of you knows an icon name we can use in a .desktop file for shutdown and reboot that'd be the same for at least gnome and KDE ?
10:33
we currently use gnome-session-halt but it just doesn't work with KDE (get the unknown file type icon instead)
10:34
<ogra>
have a look at hicolor
10:34
probably you find something
10:34
but that breaks themeing for the gtk side
10:35
<stgraber>
is there a way to set a fallback icon in a .desktop file ?
10:36
<ogra>
thats usually handled by the theme engine
10:36
i think you will need different dependencies for the different desktops ... wont work without
10:38
<stgraber>
ogra: that's for the localapps menu in ltsp-client so not on the server side ... best would be to have the same icon name existing in both Human/gnome and hicolor/kde
10:38
<johnny>
for now..
10:38
it'll be nice when we can just rely on sending the dbus signal and have the same thing for both..
10:38
<ogra>
that wont work
10:39
johnny, heh, so implement a ssh transport in dbus :)
10:39
<johnny>
ogra, talk to chrisinajar a out that :)
10:39
about*
10:39
i mentioned it to him last night, he sounded interested
10:39
<chrisinajar>
talk about what?
10:39
<ogra>
in ssh hacking ?
10:39
<johnny>
the dbus stuff chrisinajar remember? :)
10:40
<chrisinajar>
oh yeah
10:40
<ogra>
chrisinajar, getting us the missing ssh transport for dbus
10:40
<chrisinajar>
doing it over ssh is a bad idea, i think
10:40
<ogra>
so it can attch to the system bus on the clinet through the ssh tunnel
10:40
i dont see another way
10:40
<stgraber>
ogra: well, I'm already using some extra fields for my .desktop, I can probably have several icon set in extra field for each DM and then set the right one depending on LDM_SESSION's value
10:40
<ogra>
at least not without making dbus insecure
10:41
<chrisinajar>
i suggested just writing a simple tcp protocol to relay the messages, but i don't know dbus well enough to really know what i'm talking about :-P
10:41
<johnny>
it already does tcp
10:41
<ogra>
stgraber, cant you have different .desktop files depending on the desktop env ?
10:41
and how do you secure that ?
10:41
<johnny>
just not securely as far as i can tell
10:41
<chrisinajar>
yeah but with optional ssl and authentication
10:41
<ogra>
it has to be either through X or ssh
10:41
<stgraber>
ogra: yeah but /etc/ltsp/localapps-menu/ would become a real mess :)
10:41
<chrisinajar>
i just have using ssh for anything that isn't done manually
10:42
*hate
10:42
<ogra>
well
10:42
all of ltsp uses ssh up to date
10:42
<chrisinajar>
haha. that's true.
10:42
<ogra>
opening another port is just messy
10:42
make dbus communicate over X :)
10:42
<chrisinajar>
that is true
10:43
<ogra>
and drop the localapps stuff from X
10:43
<chrisinajar>
so how would one go about relaying over ssh?
10:43
<ogra>
then make localapps communicate over dbus :)
10:43
<chrisinajar>
how does ltsp do localapps? I've read a bunch of different ways to do it... what's the "standard" for ltsp?
10:43
<ogra>
it sets xatoms on the root window
10:44
these get picked up by a daemon on the client
10:44
make that daemon a dbus client that attaches to the system bus on the client
10:45
the prob you get with dbus are the implementations on the desktop session side
10:45
<chrisinajar>
so do the localapps need to be installed on the chroot?
10:45
<stgraber>
yes
10:45
<ogra>
for both big desktops
10:45
because they expect a unix domain socket
10:45
nothing in gnome or kde can handle it differently yet
10:45
chrisinajar, right
10:46
thats what defines a localapp :) it runs locally
10:46
<chrisinajar>
indeed
10:47
<ogra>
the communication system that was developed for localapps should have been done as a dbus client though
10:47
with the same xatom functionallity but differently plugged on both sides
10:48* ogra thinks he should bribe sbalneav to change it :)
10:48
<chrisinajar>
just write a better one, he'll probably take it :-P
10:49
<ogra>
not better
10:49
its good already
10:49
but differently plugged
10:49
the transport model is great
10:49
only the endpoints are just reinventing the wheel
10:50
with some modifications we might get the missing dbus functions from it
10:51
the big plus is that you already have full security in the transport
10:51
either through the ssh X proxy or through xauth ... depending what encryption level you use
10:53
<chrisinajar>
well, if it has plusses, without any real downfalls, i would call that better :-P
10:53
<ogra>
i dont think it has downfalls apart from the fact that a lot of stuff needs to be made dbus aware
10:54
it adds another level of complexity to localapps
10:54
but eases the implementation of future functionallity
10:55
as soon as yu have dbus you only need to send dbus messages for anything you wnat to add between client and server
10:55
and add a service file to the dbus on the client
10:55
the thing is that we didnt have either dbis or hal in the chroots until X required it
10:56
that changed recently so the opportunity is there for free now
10:59
<stgraber>
ogra: bah, let's just implement that at UDS. If we have scotty around it's just a matter of one or two evenings :)
10:59
<ogra>
and ten to twenty beer :)
11:00
<stgraber>
of course
11:00
<jammcq>
if scotty goes to uds, he'll prolly only have 1 evening
11:00
<ogra>
only ten beer then
11:00
<jammcq>
heh
11:00
<ogra>
:)
11:12
<vvinet>
beer? :o
11:15
<stgraber>
hey vvinet
11:16
<vvinet>
allo :)
11:16
<johnny>
beepbeep
11:16
dberkholz, the funionfs-fuse implementation is in genkernel now
11:17
dberkholz, can you find a way to bug agaffney and/or wolf32o1 to implement the config patch? so we can get some network modules in the kernel???
11:17
i need the power of donnie
11:17
err network modules in the initramfs
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12:16
<sbalneav>
Ryan52: piiiiiiing
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12:20
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: poooooooooooooong
12:21
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:22
<ogra>
!sssss
12:22
<ltspbot>
ogra: Error: "sssss" is not a valid command.
12:22
<ogra>
bah
12:22
!s
12:22
<ltspbot>
ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12:22
<loather>
"sssss" is, "sounds like steam escaping!"
12:22
<nubae>
or the sound a snake makes
12:23
<loather>
ever seen blazing saddles?
12:23
<nubae>
nope
12:24
<sbalneav>
hey jammcq
12:24
Ryan52: Soooooo.... segfault bug in your code :)
12:25
the g_strjoin you did, needs to end off with a NULL
12:25
<ogra>
NULL is nothing ... so you can as well leave it :P
12:25
<sbalneav>
g_strjoin("/", LDM_EXEC_DIR, greeter_path, NULL)
12:25
<rjune_>
loather: mel brooks his a comedic genius
12:26
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: oh, oops...umm...I tested it. how did I miss the seg fault? did you do something evil to it to make it seg fault?
12:26
<loather>
rjune: yes :)
12:27
<sbalneav>
Well, I'm here at work doing an upgrade, and figgured, since the new ldm's so much better than the one in hardy, I'd backport it.
12:27
didn't run so hot.
12:27* sbalneav shrugs
12:27
<sbalneav>
no problem.
12:27
Want me to push a rev, or you?
12:28
<ogra>
which one ? intrepid or latest upstream ?
12:28
<sbalneav>
uppity stream
12:28
<ogra>
ah
12:28
intrepid might have worked
12:28
<sbalneav>
prolly, but I like slicing edge :)
12:28
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: you can push, otherwise I will in a half hour (leaving for freegeek right now).
12:29
<ogra>
did you see the discussion above btw ?
12:29
<rjune_>
is that before or ahead of bleeding edge?
12:29
<sbalneav>
dbus?
12:29
<ogra>
well, making xrexecd a dbus client actually
12:29
<sbalneav>
It's in the nanometer between the blade and the flesh :)
12:29
yeah
12:30
sounds like a plan. It's where we should be heading.
12:30
<ogra>
great
12:30* ogra wasnt sure the idea would be liked
12:30
<sbalneav>
Dude, I've been wanting dbus for like 2 years, I'm just to freakin' stoopid to figure it out.
12:31
I made a test dbus app one time, I'll dredge it out.
12:31
<ogra>
but you wrote all that
12:31
<sbalneav>
Wrote all what?
12:31
<ogra>
we just need plugs on both ends
12:31
the transport of xrexecd
12:31
<sbalneav>
phht, it's an xatom
12:31
that's hardly anything revolutionary :)
12:32
<ogra>
yeah, so just put a dbus message into that atom :)
12:32
<sbalneav>
right
12:32
Right, I'll just put a dbus message into that xatom. :)
12:32
While I'm at it, I'll just cure world hunger, too. :)
12:33* ogra hands scottie a screwdriver and two radioshag dbus normed plugs
12:33
<sbalneav>
Why does everyone seem to think I'm so smart. Geez, haven't I proved over and over what a dolt I am?
12:33Barbosa has joined #ltsp
12:33
<ogra>
oh, now that you say it
12:33
:P
12:33
<sbalneav>
heh
12:34
Well, anyway
12:34
I'm gonna push up that rev, and get back to my upgrade
12:34
See you all on later tonight.
12:34
<ogra>
ciao
12:34
<sbalneav>
byeeeee
12:36
<rjune_>
They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards you hear satanic messages. That's nothing, because if you play it forwards it installs Windows.
12:36
<nubae>
lol
12:39hanthana has quit IRC
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12:46
<loather>
LOL
12:52
<johnny>
does anybody know of an application like like top for network process usage?
12:52
ntop isn't what i expected i think
12:52
it runs a web server
12:53
<nubae>
theres lots of top like utils, read a top 10 the other day
12:53
top was still voted #1
12:53
<johnny>
nubae, i have a feature request for your fatclient thing
12:53
imo.. it should default to what lsb-release says
12:54
<nubae>
but theres powertop, htop, ntop
12:54artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp
12:54
<johnny>
ntop isn't like top at all
12:54
it requires a web interface
12:54gonzaloaf_laptop has quit IRC
12:54
<nubae>
yeah I know
12:54
it still does similar things though
12:54
<johnny>
lame
12:54
<nubae>
not a web guy eh?
12:54
:-)
12:55
<johnny>
i am.. but i don't want my top to work like that unless i'm using ipcop or something
12:56
<nubae>
here they are... theres apachetop ptop dnstop iftop
12:56
mytop atop
12:56
and xrestop
12:56
as well as the first ones I mentioned
12:56
<johnny>
i'd like to know what processes are using up all my bandwidth.. :)
12:57
<nubae>
iftop then
12:57
<johnny>
maybe iftop.. yeah
12:57
<nubae>
sort connections by activity and bandwidth
12:58
xrestop is pretty neat too
12:58
shows x11 apps usage
12:58
pixmaps and stuff
13:00
<alkisg>
johnny, also iptraf
13:00
<nubae>
yeah but that doesn't end in top :p
13:01
<alkisg>
heh :)
13:02
<nubae>
so johnny what exactly do u mean by it should default to what lsb-release says?
13:04
<johnny>
for ubuntu vs kubuntu
13:04
instead of specifying them on the cli
13:04
you shouldn't have to do --fatclient Ubuntu
13:04
just --fatclient
13:04
<nubae>
oh yeah
13:05
sure, I'm gonna pull out kubuntu anyway
13:05
<johnny>
really?
13:05
ok
13:05
<nubae>
cant be bothered to support multiple distros
13:05
<ogra>
the prob is that there is no distro called kubuntu
13:05
<johnny>
ogra, oh..
13:05
<ogra>
so no lsb entry
13:05
<johnny>
oops
13:05
<ogra>
kubuntu is ubuntu
13:05
its just an install flavour
13:06
<nubae>
god canonical has really messed up the entire naming thing
13:06
<ogra>
wasnt canonical
13:06
<nubae>
edubuntu is not a distro, kubuntu is not lsb-release, all the non official ubuntus cant have ubuntu in the name
13:06
<ogra>
kubuntu is a community creation of the debian kde team
13:06
<nubae>
really?
13:07
<warren>
Different Fedora like KDE, Games, Electronics Lab, K12Linux can all use Fedora in their name.
13:07
Why can't ubuntu?
13:08
<ogra>
original kubuntu was designed by amu (andreas mueller) who did the kde package for debian, back during warty
13:08
<nubae>
scared of too many variants I suppose
13:08
<ogra>
warren, ask our marketing team
13:08
<nubae>
heh, they're a little like the olpc marketing team ;-)
13:08
<warren>
All of our media are just different installers for the same massive repo.
13:08
<ogra>
but essentially they want all that is ubuntu being called ubuntu and the trademark being only used for that
13:09chrisinajar has quit IRC
13:09
<warren>
even OLPC is just a pre-installed image of a different subset of fedora
13:09
<ogra>
and since ubuntu includes kde as wel as the edu packages there is a desire of letting the brands die
13:09
<nubae>
yep, though they call it olpcos
13:09
<ogra>
you can call your distro as you like
13:09
even with ubuntu
13:09chrisinajar has joined #ltsp
13:10
<ogra>
but if you use the trademark you have to ask for approval
13:10
<nubae>
really? I heard they stopped distro using it
13:10
distros
13:10
yeah ok, but they wont approve anything anymore
13:10
<johnny>
yes.. let the kubuntu brand die..
13:10
good
13:11
i always thought it was silly
13:11
<nubae>
christian edition was allowed to use the name
13:11
<johnny>
just trying to be helpful
13:11
<nubae>
btu then there is satanic edition :-) which is not really approved
13:11
<johnny>
that's unfair
13:11
<warren>
discriminatoin!
13:12
<ogra>
there are clear definitions what is ubuntu
13:12
<warren>
brb
13:12warren has quit IRC
13:12
<nubae>
the satanic version had some rather cool backgrounds too
13:12
<ogra>
everything that is not ubuntu *may* use the name ubuntu but only with the suffix "remix" now
13:14
<johnny>
ogra, christian it is not ..
13:14
<nubae>
yeah thats an old one though
13:15
the exceptions
13:15
<johnny>
they should be forced to rename it in the future
13:15
<ogra>
i guess if it doesnt clash with existing products or you cant mix it up easily nobody wil complain
13:15* johnny waits for the nvidia drivers to hit fedora10 somehow.. so they can include the fix for kernel 2.6.27 and the missing asm/semaphore
13:16
<ogra>
that wont happen
13:16
FC will not include nvidia
13:16
<johnny>
obviously
13:16
i meant in the repos .. there is no /10/
13:16
<nubae>
hey so the new meshing in the latest kernels is gonna be cool
13:16
<johnny>
only /9/
13:17rcy has quit IRC
13:17
<johnny>
i bought this laptop in 2004.. where nvidia had the only decent 3d implementation
13:17
next time.. i won't have to do the same :)
13:17
<nubae>
heh, yeah a year later ati is way ahead
13:17
well 2 years
13:18
<johnny>
next time.. i can buy intel or ati :)
13:18
<jammcq>
ati is ahead?
13:18
never heard that before
13:18
<nubae>
a little... dont u think?
13:18
<johnny>
ati doesn't match performance with nvidia 3d
13:18
but it is much more nicely integrated into distros
13:18
<nubae>
more open
13:18
<johnny>
jammcq, ati and intel gives us the ability for flicker free transistion between boot and gdm :)
13:19
<nubae>
ogra: do they have a wireless mesh somewhere in Germany?
13:19
we have funkfeur here... free wireless at up to 30mb
13:19
<johnny>
and then decent transistion between gdm and the desktop.. since the desktop backup is shared :)
13:19
i'd be happier if i had an ati card in here..
13:19
or intel.. but stupid intel and their lack of discrete cards
13:19
<nubae>
I'd like my compiz to work with video... thats annoying as hell
13:20
<johnny>
gimme a discrete intel card.. i'd be happy :)
13:26warren has joined #ltsp
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13:30
<johnny>
ntop didn't do it either..
13:30
err
13:30
iftop rather
13:31
<nubae>
htop maybe
13:34
<johnny>
nope
13:34
i use that already
13:34
it is awesome
13:34
but it doesn't do that
13:38nubae has left #ltsp
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13:53
<nubae>
wow according to a poll on the ubuntu forums, hardy upgraded properly only in 11% of cases
13:53
thats pretty darn bad
13:54
<jammcq>
well, consider that most of the people in the forums are there because they have problems. all the people who had successes probably aren't there to say so
13:54
<johnny>
i had a problem upgrading to intrepid
13:54
<nubae>
oh, thats true... didnt think of that :-)
13:54
<johnny>
did you know that if you had ever manually installed an application
13:55
<jammcq>
but believe me, i'm not saying hardy was awesome or anything like that
13:55
<johnny>
the upgrade process will die
13:55
and not even ask you to resolve the situation
13:55
<nubae>
really, what package?
13:55
<johnny>
i was left in a situation where my /etc/lsb_release file was out of date
13:55
so i couldn't continue the upgrade
13:55
orrather..
13:55
<nubae>
I manually installed oxygen office and didnt have that problem
13:55
<johnny>
it had been changed to intrepid, but the upgrade was only 50% complete
13:55
python-setuptools
13:56
and i had no idea how to recover
13:56
every upgrade in ubunt i've done.. has left systems in inconsistant states
13:56
<nubae>
hmmm
13:56
<johnny>
requiring at least on cli twiddling
13:56
<nubae>
yeah true... although intrepid upgrade was the best so far
13:56
<johnny>
luckily i'm a linux geek
13:56
and know how to fix em
13:57
<nubae>
I think all of us are
13:57
<johnny>
not all the ubunt users..
13:57
<nubae>
my parents gave up on linux
13:57
<johnny>
my gf is happy with it
13:57
she just couldn't do the upgrade herself
13:57
<nubae>
I installed ubuntu for them, and my dad asked me to install windows back :-(
13:57
<johnny>
i'm pretty happy with fedora10 on this laptop now
13:57
newer packages than ubuntu
13:57
ubuntu was never good for me. the packages were always too old :)
13:58
<nubae>
hows mandriva, I never hear that mentioned much around here
13:58
<johnny>
i see no reason to try it
13:58
they use kde as a base
13:58
so it is no go
13:58
fo me
13:58
<nubae>
y not?
13:58
<johnny>
if i have to install gnome manually for a distro.. then i'm not gonna use it
13:58
the tools are gonna be all wrong for me
13:58
if i have to manually set it up.. i might as well just use debian
13:59
<nubae>
yeq
13:59
or gentoo
13:59
:-)
13:59
<johnny>
i want the distro to do integration work
13:59
that is why i don't really use plain debian
14:00
so far.. fedora10 is that for me.. at least atm
14:00
the real reason i use fedora10 is ultimately because alot of the new stuff happens there first.. before being standardized
14:01
so i can figure out how it works.. to use on my gentoo box :)
14:01
and perhaps even help make it actually usable on other distros :)
14:01
<nubae>
u could always use debian sid
14:01
<johnny>
altho.. the gentoo people don't really like integrating certain things.. which makes me sad
14:01
too many crusty *nix geeks in gentoo and debian communities
14:02
i'm happy that both fedora and ubuntu use upstart
14:02
and have generally integrated networkmanager
14:02
that's the kind of things i want to see
14:02
<nubae>
does fedora have a gui fw ?
14:02
<johnny>
yes
14:02
not sure if it is good as ufw.. as i never used that
14:03
<nubae>
whats it called?
14:03
<johnny>
system-config-firewall
14:03
just like all their system-config-* stuff
14:03
<nubae>
k
14:03
<johnny>
iirc.. ubuntu is using system-config-printer
14:04
<nubae>
yep
14:04
<johnny>
decent tool right there
14:04
i use it on my gentoo box too
14:06
i also really dig the fedora default background
14:06
altho not so much the theme
14:06selffik has quit IRC
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14:08
<johnny>
it's ok enough..
14:09
nubae, the world is getting better tho.. that is a fact.. dbus @xorg == awesome
14:09
soon we can drop this org.gnome.ScreenSaver !
14:09
and get org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver
14:10
nubae, you should perhaps install d-feet and see what your stuff is exposing now.. :)
14:14selffik has joined #ltsp
14:18
<nubae>
d-feet what is that?
14:24warren has joined #ltsp
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14:35
<johnny>
graphical interface to dbus
14:38hotte has left #ltsp
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15:58
<dirigeant>
my clients give an error like "no free space left on device"
15:58
is this about size of my root system
15:59alekibango has quit IRC
15:59
<dirigeant>
clients have 128mb ram
16:00
my root-path is /opt/ptsp
16:00
and
16:00
MeW-pardus ~ # du -hs /opt/ptsp/
16:00
504M /opt/ptsp/
16:00
this is its size
16:04
<johnny>
we have no idea how you're booting them.. or what method..
16:04
shouldn't the ptsp people know?
16:06
<laga>
what *is* ptsp?
16:06
<Ryan52>
what's ptsp?
16:11
<johnny>
it's pardus version of ltsp
16:11
<Q-FUNK>
something that is specific to some turkish distribution - somewhat similar to ltsp
16:11
<johnny>
dirigeant, you should not ask us for help for ltsp
16:11
err for ptsp
16:11
we have no idea how it works.. or how it is implemented
16:11
<jammcq>
dos pardus also rename Apache to Papache and gcc to pgcc ?
16:12
<Q-FUNK>
:D
16:12
<laga>
oh hai, let's fork stuff
16:14
<jammcq>
sounds like they forked the code, but forgot to fork the support channel and community
16:15
<Q-FUNK>
dirigeant: pardus seems to ohave been developped by TÜBITAK. I'm sure that they have mailing lists or forums that you can consult.
16:18chrisinajar has joined #ltsp
16:22
<dirigeant>
oh men, i think this is not related with ptsp.
16:22
i learned, ptsp only use ltspfs
16:23
not a copy of ltsp
16:23
<rjune_>
ltsp has an fs now?
16:24
<jammcq>
now? it has since ltsp-4.2
16:24
like 4 years now
16:24
<rjune_>
oh
16:25
<dirigeant>
i wanna learn that is installed system loaded at root-path smaller than client RAM size?
16:25
this is a general question
16:28selffik has quit IRC
16:28
<chrisinajar>
dirigeant: can you reword that? I don't understand.
16:29DawnLight has joined #ltsp
16:29
<dirigeant>
the system i installed on server machine for clients
16:29
<chrisinajar>
dirigeant: the client operating system? (chroot)
16:30
<dirigeant>
yes, which installed in root-path
16:30
<vagrantc>
while folks here are generally helpful, the focus is definitely on LTSP, not general support questions ...
16:30
<dirigeant>
hmm, when i search anything about thin clients,
16:31
google shows me ltsp
16:31
<vagrantc>
maybe you should try it :)
16:31
<chrisinajar>
dirigeant: sp what about the client os are you asking?
16:32
<dirigeant>
hmm, sorry for my bad english. i installed a base system on /opt/ptsp/ folder and add "option root-path 10.0.0.1:/opt/ptsp" line to dhcp.conf
16:32
but client gives this error while opening system
16:32
<DawnLight>
hey, what is this ldm_guestlogin thing?
16:33
oh, i remember. sorry.
16:33DawnLight has quit IRC
16:33
<dirigeant>
i wanna learn where is the problem.
16:33
<chrisinajar>
dirigeant: what error are you getting, and can you post your entire dhpcd.conf file somewhere?
16:34
<dirigeant>
client says "cp: no free space left on device"
16:34
and then it gives error while creating new files
16:34
in /dev folder etc.
16:35
<jammcq>
without knowing how ptsp is designed, it's very hard for us to offer support
16:35
<chrisinajar>
sounds like it might be loading root as a tmpfs :\...
16:35
<jammcq>
ltsp uses a pseudo /dev filesystem and doesn't create anything in there
16:35
maybe #ptsp will be of some help
16:36
<dirigeant>
umm, ok. ltsp works different completely?
16:36
<chrisinajar>
what is ptsp, anyway...
16:36
<jammcq>
we don't know how ptsp works, so we can't answer whether it works differently from ltsp
16:36
ptsp is pardus terminal server project
16:37
<dirigeant>
chrisinajar: http://svn.pardus.org.tr/uludag/trunk/ptsp/README
16:38
<chrisinajar>
dirigeant: you should just use ltsp, you'll get better help then :-P
16:38
<dirigeant>
:)
16:38
ok, i'll try it
16:39F-GT has quit IRC
16:39
<dirigeant>
i think, ptsp is easier so i tried it, but i dont know details too much.
16:40
<vagrantc>
sounds a lot easier so far :P
16:42
<laga>
ah, ptsp is not a fork then.
16:42
alright, bed time
16:45
<johnny>
laga, they don't use our standard tools that's a fact
16:45
they use alot of pardus specific stuff
16:45
<dirigeant>
vagrantc: problem is not ptsp
16:45
there is few documents about it
16:45Q-FUNK has quit IRC
16:45
<dirigeant>
this is main problem
16:46
<vagrantc>
dirigeant: and it's certainly *not* LTSP, either, since you're not using it :)
16:46
<dirigeant>
ministry of national defence use ptsp
16:48F-GT has joined #ltsp
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17:24
<stgraber>
dirigeant: seriously, if you want support for ptsp or whatever other LTSP fork, just go ask their developers. We don't have a clue what PTSP is as we do LTSP, LTSP is included in some distributions (list in the topic of that channel) and we offer support for these because the developers are actually in this channel.
17:25
Now, let's get back to finishing the packaging of LTSP for Jaunty (init scripts and doc)
17:36
<Ahmuck>
dirigeant: i think that unless it's a big project, many linux projects has few documentation :(
17:38
<nubae>
LTSP is another distribution that is used on the thin-client machines. It has its own packaging system with a perl based management tool.
17:38
thats rather wrong...
17:39
The management and configuration scripts are hacky.
17:39
what?
17:39
<johnny>
where are you reading that?
17:40
<nubae>
http://svn.pardus.org.tr/uludag/trunk/ptsp/README
17:40
<johnny>
somebody needs to update it
17:40
<nubae>
its like a fairy tale
17:40
<johnny>
that is probably from ltsp4 days
17:40
altho the perl stuff is wrong
17:40
<nubae>
yeah no shit
17:40
<jammcq>
it's not so much "wrong". it's just old information
17:41
<nubae>
ltsp uses hostly hackish bash scripts....
17:41
well I never knew ltsp4 so can't talk for it
17:41
but dont think it could be considered hackish
17:42
PTSP: Potential Trouble Source Person (Scientology)
17:42
funny
17:44
<johnny>
i'd say it is hackish
17:44
the plugin stuff is almost unnecessary for me
17:44
as it stands
17:45
i only have 5 for gentoo
17:45
even more of them could disappear i guess
17:45
<nubae>
plugin stuff?
17:47* vagrantc keeps adding more every day
17:47
<vagrantc>
i aim to have at least 2000 plugins for debian by the end of the year.
17:47DonSilver has quit IRC
17:48
<Ahmuck>
nubae: any interest in walking me through your fat client setup? if you would, i'd keep a detailed log and then type it up as a readme or instruction manual
17:49
<nubae>
!fatclient
17:49
<ltspbot>
nubae: Error: "fatclient" is not a valid command.
17:49
<Ahmuck>
*snicker*
17:49
<nubae>
www.nubae.com
17:49
its all documented there
17:49
and here: help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
17:50
if u get any problems, ask me... but it should be working ok, lots of people seem to be using it now
17:51
how does one teach the bot again?
17:51
<Ahmuck>
fat client requires NFS ?
17:51
is that help at ubuntu up to date?
17:51
<nubae>
if u want to share home yes
17:51
<Ahmuck>
anymore wading through ubuntu help is like wading through google goo
17:51
<nubae>
yes, but really u should use the plugin
17:52
<Ahmuck>
k. well the lab is setup, now off to find keyboards and mice
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18:48
<petre>
jammcq, ping
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19:16
<jammcq>
petre: pong
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19:21
<petre>
jammcq, is there a more detailed explanation of getting on #ltsp on the ltsp.org website?
19:22
There used to be a good page about it, but there doesn't seem to be anything like that in the wiki
19:23
I just want to put a link to an explanation about #ltsp into the quick start guide I'm updating for k12linux
19:36
never mind, I found the page I was thinking of on the old ltsp.sourceforge.net archive
19:36
<jammcq>
umm
19:37
that should be moved to the wiki, so people can find it easily
19:53
<petre>
jammcq, I thought someone had, but couldn't find anything other than a short 'use #ltsp' sentence
19:54
I'll make a mental note to recreate it on the wiki, although it will probably be a few days before I can get to it.
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21:51
<dberkholz>
johnny: there's a patch around for genkernel to configure network modules??
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23:46
<sbalneav>
Evening all