IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 January 2019   (all times are UTC)

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11:54
<mads2>
Hello. What`s the recommended server to run Android Studio in 10 or 20 thin clients. I have three labs full of old machine but they do fine for all classes but the Android dev ones.
12:00
<alkisg>
mads2: the same way that you would run with without ltsp
12:00
How would you run it without ltsp?
12:00
E.g. in virtualbox?
12:00
Ah studio, not plain android
12:00
OK, then normally :)
12:01
What's the problem, that it run slowly? Are you clients really thin, or are they fat?
12:02
<highvoltage>
(hehe)
12:03
<mads2>
The question is, I can run Android Studio in my machine (I5 5200, 8GB ram) fine. But if I wanna spin a server with a 10 or 20 thin clients, how much more computer power would I need.
12:03
I would run thin clients, because they can`t run Android Studio satisfactory
12:04
<alkisg>
mads2: easy to test, just run `ssh -X user01@localhost`, and run android 20 times from there
12:04
If it needs e.g. 500 MB RAM for each instance, then you'd need 20*500 MB RAM for 20 users
12:04
Add 200 MB for the session (MATE etc) as well
12:04
So with 16 GB you should be ok, RAM-wise
12:05
!kvm
12:05
<ltsp>
kvm: Virtual thin client: kvm -m 256 -vga vmware -ctrl-grab -no-shutdown -net nic,model=virtio -net user,tftp=/var/lib/tftpboot,bootfile=/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
12:05
<alkisg>
Or run 20 virtual thin clients, and log in from there
12:06
<mads2>
hunn, I thought that since the clients are all running on the server it could save a lot of ram/computing power
12:08
but I will hack around. We don`t want to upgrade a whole lab for one application (Android Studio is really heavy)
12:08
<alkisg>
Shared ram is saved
12:08
That's usually ram from libraries
12:08
While non-shared ram, like browser tabs etc, isn't "saved"
12:09
Btw, an I5 5200 isn't any super server, it's a normal workstation for android studio :D
12:09
It'd be way better to have all i3 clients, so that each one of them ran it on its own
12:10
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-5200U+%40+2.20GHz => 3500 score
12:10
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-8250U+%40+1.60GHz&id=3042 => 7700 score, twice as much (and still laptop)
12:12* alkisg was testing a 24-cpu monster these days, with 192 GB RAM - this one could run a lot of thin clients
12:16
<mads2>
The i5 is my personal computer, I would use some server available for it at the uni. Anyway, I`ll run some tests with the ssh. Thank you very much alkisg!
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15:40
<mwalters>
for reference, we have 3 12core 128gb memory servers here
15:40
(and 1 12core 64gb) ;)
15:41
...we ended up running clone via ltsp-localapps just because of the rendering performance =/
15:41
and now we use fat clients... lol
15:41
finally got bonding working right at this location... I think this'll really help speed up nbd: https://i.imgur.com/tRZ94NV.png
15:58
<alkisg>
nbd is cached both server and client side, so it shouldn't be much of a bottleneck
15:58
/home needs ssd if you can afford it
15:59
Which bonding mode did you use?
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18:00
<fiesh>
we used to have thin clients, and our server is a better than what alkisg tested... but fat clients are, alas, the way to go these days
18:00
a tad better
18:12
<mads2>
My terminals can't run the application even on bare metal. My intention is to run thin clients because its easier to me to get a powerful enough server than to upgrade the whole lab. I only need a fair estimate of this server specs but I will try it by trial and error with what I already got.
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18:27
<alkisg>
mads2: the main bottleneck is the network
18:27
!flash
18:27
<ltsp>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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18:27
<alkisg>
It's not just about flash. Imagine 2.5 gbps per *client* for any 30fps application.
18:27
That's why thin clients probably won't be supported at all in ltsp6
18:28
I imagine we'll endorse x2go or xrdp or other remote desktop models there
18:38
<mwalters>
alkisg: 802.3ad
18:38
lacp
18:42
the biggest thing for me (us) is the intial DE loading, and the first time chrome launches
18:42
(also if 5 people happen to start their desktops at the exact same time)
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19:12
<mwalters>
youtube on chrome at least should be h265 now, right?
19:12
via html5 video?
19:20
<alkisg>
If you're talking about bandwidth, thin clients always get uncompressed video
19:27
<mwalters>
that's true, you're right
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19:32
<JuJUBee>
mwalters, thanks for the info on static ip the other day. I got booted before I could see it and ended up figuring it out.
19:33
<mwalters>
np
19:33
<JuJUBee>
Got the new LTSP server up and running
19:33
Most everything is fine except netbeans for some reason.
19:34
<mwalters>
netbeans, the IDE?
19:34
<JuJUBee>
When a student launches it and tries to go to the options, nothing happens. Even if they wipe and re-install it.
19:34
Yes the IDE
19:34
Im thinking it is a permissions issue somehow tied to ltsp but it was working on the old server.
19:35
<mwalters>
It's been a loooong time since I tried out netbeans, not sure I can help
19:35
I ended up with the jetbrains IDEs when I was a dev
19:36
<JuJUBee>
The course they are taking requires netbeans. There is a submission plugin they are using for a MOOC.
19:36
<mwalters>
Can you remind me of your set up again? Fat/Thin Clients, chroot/chrootless, etc?
19:37
<JuJUBee>
Fat chrootless 18.04
19:37
I have /homes for the students instead of /home
19:38
<mwalters>
is the $HOME variable correct when they log in?
19:38
`echo $HOME` from a terminal
19:38
<JuJUBee>
yes
19:38
<mwalters>
maybe try running netbeans from a terminal and see if it outputs an error
19:39
it definitely sounds like a file access issue based on the behavior
19:40
also, remote logging is super rad
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19:41
<JuJUBee>
I did run from terminal but don't know what this means https://pastebin.com/uNxVDUdm
19:42
FYI, the first line I get on my computer (non ltsp) and netbeans runs fine
19:43
<mwalters>
do you have the same JVM installed on your computer and the ltsp server?
19:43
looks more like a JVM issue, than a file access issue
19:44
not sure this is root of the issue, though... these are just warnings
19:44
now that I thinka bout it more
19:44
<JuJUBee>
Yes I do have same version
19:45
<mwalters>
next step is probably take a look at it w/ strace
19:45
`strace <netbeans binary>`
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19:48
<mwalters>
should give you an idea of what files it's trying to access, where they are... and specifically which ones at the time of the issue
19:48
it's pretty... verbose, though ;)
19:48
<JuJUBee>
OMG the output is more than the buffer can handle
19:48
<mwalters>
hah
19:48
<JuJUBee>
You aint kidding
19:49
<mwalters>
maybe...
19:58
yeah, I'm not 100% sure, there's a bunch of different ways... the tool this guy built looks promising, you'll have to compile it yourself, though I think: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/18844/list-the-files-accessed-by-a-program
19:59
alternatively, grep the strace output down to what you want
19:59
probably open\(
20:00
`strace <binary>|grep ^open\(` might work, but I'm not 100% sure
20:01
that doesn't seem right
20:01
not sure :D
20:02
grepping the output doesn't seem to work at all, not sure why
20:02
`strace <binary> 2>&1|grep <some string>
20:06
This seems troublesome
20:06
I give up ;)
20:10
<JuJUBee>
Thanks anyway
20:14
<alkisg>
JuJUBee: does it run directly on the server?
20:23
<JuJUBee>
alkisg, no
20:33
So I switched back to java 1.8 jdk and it runs. Strange, I have 1.11 on my laptop and it runs fine, but not on the server.
20:34
Thanks for trying. I gotta go, snowing now and I should get home before it really comes down.
20:42
<alkisg>
Then it's not an ltsp issue :)
20:42
Try asking in your distro channel, e.g. #ubuntu
20:42
<mwalters>
rip
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