IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 March 2018   (all times are UTC)

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05:58
<Miguel905>
THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
05:58
quinox vsuojanen kjackal adrianorg ltsp ogra_ lee fiesh sbalneav TatankaT vlt ||cw highvoltage markus_e92 tek__ book`_ spectra pppingme PeperPots____ alexxtasi[m] alkisg Hyperbyte bcg zama bitchecker tarzeau dragon788 sutula Natureshadow coseus zamba
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07:33
<fiesh>
alkisg: ok, so the clients (all of them) reliably lose network connectivity over night and don't even regain it
07:34
<alkisg>
fiesh: did you try a VM client?
07:34
Or, a standalone client that is still up and you could check its logs?
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07:36
<fiesh>
I just rebooted it, hehe, the standalone client, but the problem is I cannot do anything any more. dmesg complains about the nfs server not responding any more (which is obvious given the network's down), and ping went to network unreachable
07:39
I have remote logging on with syslogd, but of course it doesn't work any more when the network is down
07:40
alkisg: but I can reproduce it over night :) what's the next step you suggest?
07:40
<alkisg>
Yeah that's why the standalone client was the key
07:40
standalone and VM
07:40
And, thinking what can be the cause; e.g. a cleaning lady that pulls the switch plug to put the vacuumn cleaner :P
07:40
<fiesh>
haha
07:40
<alkisg>
(I've actually had that issue, it took me a while to get the school to discover that :D)
07:41
fiesh: btw, do you also have old-style (NFS-booted) clients that get the same issue?
07:41
I.e. so that we make sure it's not related at all to our changes?
07:43
<fiesh>
the thin clients do not have that issue
07:43
I haven't tried the NFS fat client
07:46
<alkisg>
Aaah got one idea. What about dhclient, maybe it's asking for a new ip lease
07:46
Boot a client and check if dhclient is running
07:46
Normally ltsp clients don't renew their leases at all, but possibly the dracut initramfs has bad support for ip renewal
07:48
fiesh: ^
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08:06
<fiesh>
ah
08:06
that's a great idea, will check in a bit
08:11
<alkisg>
fiesh: if you get this again this night, I'll try to reproduce it here locally
08:17
<fiesh>
so there is no dhclient running at all
08:17
on the fat client
08:17
however, also not on the thin client
08:18
so who's renewing the lease anyway?!
08:19
alkisg: is there a dhclient supposed to be running?
08:20
<alkisg>
fiesh: if dhclient isn't running, I assume there's no lease renewal, so that's not the issue
08:20
<fiesh>
but shouldn't the lease expire at some point?
08:20
<alkisg>
Yes, and ltsp clients ignore that completely :D
08:20
<fiesh>
at least the dhcp server might give away the ip address to some other device?
08:20
hmm
08:20
<alkisg>
Usually dhcp servers ping before assigning a new address
08:20
So it's not an issue
08:20
<fiesh>
ah ok
08:21
<alkisg>
What's your dhcp lease time?
08:21
If it's less than a day, do try increasing it to 2 days just for a test
08:21
<fiesh>
hmm whatever the isc dhcpd default sto
08:22
but I guess it should be mainly up to the client
08:22
they request a lease time
08:22
<alkisg>
https://www.isc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/dhcp41conf.html => The default is 43200 seconds.
08:22
No, dhcp clients don't request a lease time
08:23
This is 12 hours, it matches...
08:23
<fiesh>
yes, it does match
08:23
hmm
08:23
<alkisg>
Try increasing default-lease-time 4 times
08:23
To48 hours
08:23
If it's that, we'll check how to properly solve it
08:23
<fiesh>
ok, good idea!
08:24
<alkisg>
Although netbooted clients had better get an infinite lease anyway :)
08:25
<fiesh>
the question is if that makes any sense, I suppose the lease time exists to allow ip addresses to be renewable
08:25
reusable
08:25
I'd be fine with using link level ipv6 too, which wouldn't require dhcp
08:26
<alkisg>
Well, if you have new clients all the time, then it does make sense to have them renewable, but if not, it's best to give ltsp clients an infinite lease
08:26
<fiesh>
or actual ipv6, we have that too, but I found it surprisingly difficult to use it, because our router does the ipv6 advertisement, and then it has to cross the server, and go to the clients
08:26
<alkisg>
There's no guarantee in the protocol that a client will keep its current ip after a lease renewal
08:26
So, the only official way to keep ltsp clients running, is an infinite lease
08:27
ipv6 support in ltsp isn't well tested
08:28
Check also dynamic-bootp-lease-cutoff date in the dhcpd link above
08:28
<fiesh>
ah so it does assign infinite leases by default to bootp?!
08:29
so I suppose it's a bug that the fat clients' lease isn't infinite, whereas the thin clients' one is?
08:30
<alkisg>
It's possible that dracut is doing a different dhcp request, but I don't think that's actually the case
08:30
I believe thin clients are just more tolerant than nbd
08:30
nfs and sshfs can survive even network cable unplugging, while nbd can't
08:31
<fiesh>
but from the documentation of dynamic-bootp-lease-cutoff, the dhcp lease should already be infinite
08:31
but the network goes away and doesn't come back
08:31
<alkisg>
I believe both thin and fat clients do NOT request bootp leases
08:31
<fiesh>
oh I see
08:31
isn't that incorrect behavior?
08:32
<alkisg>
bootp isn't the same as pxe
08:32
It's an older protocol with its own issues
08:32
<fiesh>
I know, but the lease type might be correct, no?
08:32
<alkisg>
It's possible that ltsp clients could fake being bootp clients, but I'm not sure if sysadmins would like that
08:32
<fiesh>
hmm ok
08:32
<alkisg>
And it would require support from dracut and initramfs-tools, outside the ltsp code base
08:33
One other test that we can do, is to netboot a fat client using nfs
08:33
<fiesh>
I'll first go for the 48h lease
08:33
<alkisg>
That nfs will still be booted using dracut, but since nfs is more tolerant than nbd, it may tell us if the problem is dracut or disconnections
08:33
<fiesh>
well the ping that I ran here stayed dead
08:33
so the network didn't come back at all
08:34
<alkisg>
You're pinging from the server to the client and the client doesn't reply? Yeah that suggests an "ifdown" event...
08:34
But it's not certain, it might be that the client has hanged due to the nbd file system being unavailable
08:35
<fiesh>
I've been pinging the server from the client
08:35
and ping was still running, it just didn't get any responses and complained that the network was down
08:36
but I think you're most likely right that dracut is to blame for the change
08:36
I could even live with setting the default-lease-time of dhcpd to 2^31-1, 68 years would be fine with me
08:36
<alkisg>
Let's try 48 hours first, it should be enough as a test
08:38
<fiesh>
yes
08:38
changed the setting and rebooted this client (and not the others, so we have a reference)
08:42
<alkisg>
I think you'll need to restart dhcpd for the change to take effect, and then reboot the client
08:42
If you can also boot a client over dracut/nfs, that would give us valuable feedback too
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08:52
<fiesh>
did that
08:52
I'll do that too
08:54
the NFS is going to have a lease time of 48h too then though
08:54
or should I give it 12h?
08:54
I can restart dhcpd again and reset it
08:59
<alkisg>
Both of those tests are useful (nfs on 12 or 48h), so whatever you like there
09:01
<fiesh>
ok, I'll leave it at 48h then for now
09:01
to have fewer parameters
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13:28
<nehemiah>
Is there any known problem with LTSP when the server is running nvidia proprietary drivers?
13:30
I get a bunch of 'GLX missing on display...' errors. The only thing I can see that's different from other setups is that the nvidia proprietary drivers are installed.
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13:53
<||cw>
you're using pnp right? do the clients have nv cards?
13:53
the server's graphics capabilities are irrelevant
13:56
<nehemiah>
I use ltsp-manager
13:58
The clients do not.
14:14
<||cw>
so where do you get the errors?
14:14
if the clients don't have glx, than that would be expected
14:40
<nehemiah>
The error occurred when starting evolution mail. Setting the server to use Nouveau driver actually solved the problem. No idea how that works. But I'm happy that it works now.
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19:01
<quinox>
he left already; the reason is that the nvidia binary driver replaced system libraries, and if you use that installation with other graphical drivers things break
19:02
the open source drivers are excellent for office work though, so I don't bother with the closed source anymore
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