IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 9 November 2015   (all times are UTC)

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04:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: which arm board would you recommend for ltsp?
04:48
The ones that use Mali graphics don't fare well in the open source world, right?
04:49
<vagrantc>
it really depends
04:49
<alkisg>
Actually, x86 suggestions would be fine if they're small devices and not desktops...
04:50
I see that raspberry's vc4 is trying to make it upstream to the linux kernel....
04:50
<vagrantc>
basically, the main limiting factor is framebuffer video; all the fancy 3d video stuff is with random ancient kernels and proprietary blobs
04:51
maybe they could get basic rpi2 support in the kernel before trying to do the hard stuff
04:51
<alkisg>
I'm reading that they'll have working kms in linux 4.4....
04:51
But pi's aside, is there anything else that works well in all aspects?
04:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i've been pretty happy with the wandboard series, but the free video implementation is framebuffer video for X
04:52
alkisg: cubox-i are nice, but same problem
04:52
<alkisg>
Is it good enough to play a fullscreen youtube video on fat clients?
04:52
<vagrantc>
haven't tried
04:53
i did have some issues with tearing when moving a window ...
04:53
<alkisg>
And have you seen any x86 based small devices, like e.g. the intel compute stick, but with an ethernet instead of wifi?
04:53
<vagrantc>
i vaguely recall being surprised by some random video playing ... not sure if the quality was passable
04:53
haven't really looked
04:53* alkisg googles for wandboard...
04:53
<vagrantc>
wandboard.org
04:56
<alkisg>
Pis do seem that they have a good floss community around them...
04:56
<vagrantc>
cubox-i and wandboard are basically the same, specs-wise, only the cubox-i comes in a slick little black case
04:57
i haven't tried for a while, but the beaglebone black might work as a thin client ...
04:57
<alkisg>
Nah, scratch thins, they're not suitable for the usual browsing experience that users want these days...
04:57
<vagrantc>
hardkernel's odroid-c1+ might be comprable to the rpi2
04:59
<alkisg>
#wandboard: 25 persons, #raspberrypi: 475 persons...
04:59
<vagrantc>
there are a number of boards with 1-2GB of ram ... more than that is really hard to come by
04:59
alkisg: quantity alone isn't the best measure
04:59
alkisg: but yes, the wandboard channel tends to be pretty quiet
04:59
<alkisg>
A good measure for me is if it plays a fullscreen youtube video out of the box, Pi 2 can't do that...
05:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: that said, the wandboard developers did it as a community developed project, open hardware design, etc.
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05:00
<alkisg>
Their forums are down atm... hmm...
05:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: video support on arm is just not great yet ... there's been good progress on a few, but not ready *yet*
05:03
<alkisg>
So basically for teachers here that are asking "which cheap board to buy in order to use it as a fat client", I'd have to look for something x86 based with ethernet...
05:06* vagrantc nods
05:07
<vagrantc>
they're not cheap, but i've recently worked with gigabyte brix boxes
05:07
pretty nice
05:07* vagrantc has been looking for viable arm-based thin/fat clients for so long
05:08
<alkisg>
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+Z3735F+%40+1.33GHz ==> 903, the score of intel compute stick
05:08
The version with the 1 gb ram costs less than $100... maybe with a usb ethernet adapter...
05:09
ah, the brix boxes are full blown clients, yeah sure those would do fine for people that can afford them
05:12
<vagrantc>
the compute sticks could run from local media and use wireless...
05:17
<alkisg>
I'm not sure how good the wifi connection would be if e.g. 12 compute sticks were using sshfs over wifi, even with local squashfs
05:18
<vagrantc>
ah, keep forgetting aout sshfs ...
05:18* vagrantc has just been using tmpfs homedirs
05:18
<vagrantc>
which works great ... if that meets your need :)
05:21
<alkisg>
Nah, students need a home dir to save things. An alternative with only the document and desktop symlinked to sshfs would be good though
05:21
I.e. to have most of the traffic in tmpfs, and only when they go to file>save from some application, to reach the server
05:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: apparently the vivante chips in the wandboard are getting improved support with etna_viv
05:22
that would be interesting...
05:22
most of the students are using google docs... so no local storage needed
05:24
<alkisg>
Where do they e.g. draw things like tuxpaint?
05:25
Also it's prohibited to create google mails for students under 13
05:27
<vagrantc>
right, not valid for all use-cases
05:30
anyways, good luck
05:31
finding a client ...
05:31* vagrantc is interested how it goes
05:31* vagrantc waves
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11:55
<fenixfunk5>
hi all. i'm trying to add an option to my ltsp-client's grub line. so i edited /etc/default/grub and ran update-grub but it failed, telling : "error: cannot find a device for / (is /dev mounted?).". I understand that this is normal since i'm in the ltsp chroot and the actual device update-grub is asking for would be the ltsp image file, which is not accessible from the chroot. my questino is what's the regular way to update-grub on ltsp client chroot?
11:58
(tryin to mount --bind /dev /opt/ltsp/ .... /dev right now)
11:58
<muppis>
Don't.
11:59
<fenixfunk5>
yeah i can see why ^^ didn't reboot though, no worries
11:59
<Hyperbyt1>
fenixfunk5, why would you do this? LTSP clients boot using PXE, not grub.
12:00
If you want to change kernel options, you do this in pxelinux config on the server.
12:00
<muppis>
You do not need update-grub in chroot. Instead look after files under /var/lib/tftboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/
12:01
<fenixfunk5>
i'm trying to disable a kernel module at boot time, indeed if it's pxe i did not look in the right direction :p
12:02
<Hyperbyt1>
fenixfunk5, you could even disable it via lts.conf
12:02
<fenixfunk5>
through lts.conf would be nice i reckon
12:03Hyperbyt1 is now known as Hyperbyte
12:03
<fenixfunk5>
since i need to disable this only for some client
12:03
<Hyperbyte>
What exactly are you blacklisting?
12:03
<fenixfunk5>
longhaul kernel module, causing some VIA cpu based clients not to boot
12:04
well "all" via cpus actually :p
12:04
<Hyperbyte>
Right, this you can't do via lts.conf probably.
12:05
Some things, like kernel modules for video and other non-essential things can be blacklisted via lts.conf because lts.conf directives are handled pretty early in the boot sequence.
12:08
You can however create specific PXE configs based on mac address
12:12
<fenixfunk5>
i don't see in the lts.conf manpages how to blacklist modules, only how to load them :/
12:17
<Hyperbyte>
Nah, you could hack some script together.
12:17
but I assume the clients' kernels aren't even loading, so that's not going to work.
12:27
<fenixfunk5>
yup that's it, kernel won't even load
12:28
im trying to fix pxe now
12:44
well thanks a lot for your help, i did what i wanted with PXE but this didn't resolve my problem. i think this is 100% VIA-related so don't bother ;)
12:48work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
12:49
<alkisg>
fenixfunk5: are you the same one that was asking about this ~2 weeks ago?
13:06
If not, he found out that it was just a graphics driver problem
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13:50
<fenixfunk5>
alkisg, no this isn't me, do you reckon he got the same error "[ 14.632335] longhaul: Option "Enable" not set. Aborting." at client boot time? the kernel won't even load that's why i thought my issue is cpu-related
13:50
<alkisg>
fenixfunk5: yes, he got the same error
13:50
fenixfunk5: are you sure that the kernel isn't loading?
13:51
I think that it's the initramfs that shows the error, after the kernel is loaded
13:51
Try removing quiet splash from pxelinux.cfg/default, to see more messages
13:51
And then take a screenshot with e.g. your mobile phone and upload it for us to see
13:54
<fenixfunk5>
ah right, there's initramfs timing prefix in the error... i'll try this in a bit, just need to setup things a bit differently : now that everything went back in production here, i cant be testing around ;)
14:00
<alkisg>
fenixfunk5: do you have epoptes-client installed in the chroot?
14:02
fenixfunk5: some things to try are:
14:02
SCREEN_02=shell in lts.conf
14:04
nomodeset in pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address
14:04
XSERVER=vesa in lts.conf
14:04
!noaccel
14:04
<ltsp>
noaccel: Some graphics cards, e.g. SiS [1039:6325] on 14.04, require this setting in lts.conf: X_OPTION_01="\"NoAccel\""
14:04
<alkisg>
And finally that ^ one
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15:40* bennabiy waves.
15:40
<bennabiy>
Hi Vagrantc
15:41
Got time for a quick debian question?
15:41
<vagrantc>
easier to answer a question aksed :)
15:42
<bennabiy>
I didn't want to bother you with a non LTSP question if you did not have time :)
15:42
<vagrantc>
ah, i see.
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15:42
<vagrantc>
still easier to just ask :)
15:43
<bennabiy>
I just have a couple wheezy servers which I would like to move to Jessie, but hope to not have to do a fresh install. Is the process of doing a dist-upgrade fairly stable?
15:43
Some are virtual, some bare metal
15:44
<vagrantc>
really depends on what's on them
15:44
but overall, i've found upgrades to be reasonably straightforward
15:44
<bennabiy>
Basic email server, one is a webserver for a java app
15:44
<vagrantc>
that said, i've been working with debian systems for ~15 years now ... so maybe i'm blind :)
15:44
<bennabiy>
that is why I wanted to ask you :)
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15:45
<bennabiy>
what about squeeze to jessie?
15:47
<vagrantc>
haven't done any to say
15:47
<bennabiy>
I have a mail server which is on a bare metal i386 which I want to take to Jessie 64bit in a virtual machine
15:47
ok
15:47
<vagrantc>
switching from i386 to amd64 basically requires reinstalling
15:47
<bennabiy>
yes.
15:48
<vagrantc>
it's theoretically possible to live migrate, but it may involve some very *interesting* moments.
15:48
<bennabiy>
I was not sure if migrating configs would be easier if I brought the squeeze to wheezy to jessie, then brought them over to the 64 bit install
15:49
I have a new install already done, but I guess I could export which packages I have installed, and install the 64 bit versions and then copy over the config files?
15:49
<vagrantc>
admittedly, i still haven't upgraded my own mail server ... keep telling myself i want to do it right and get everything into configuration management
15:49
<bennabiy>
yes
15:50
I would like to use puppet or some such to manage my servers, but have yet the time to get it all set up beyond a little poke at it
15:51* vagrantc has had good experiences with ansible
15:51
<bennabiy>
One difficulty is that the i386 box is about 1000 miles away from me. So in the case of it needing to be rebooted or something happening, it is not a pleasant thought
15:51
<alkisg>
From how many servers and up are those useful?
15:51* vagrantc nods
15:51
<bennabiy>
I have not worked with ansible.
15:51
<alkisg>
I tried clusterssh to manage my classroom before joining ltsp, it was fine for 12 clients...
15:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: configuration management?
15:52* vagrantc finds it useful even for a single server
15:52
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I mean, if you only have to configure 2 servers, would you use ansible?
15:52
<vagrantc>
ah, how well does it scale
15:52
<alkisg>
Ah, ok
15:52
<vagrantc>
i guess ansible supposedly doesn't do well for hundreds or thousands of machines
15:52
<bennabiy>
puppet scales from itself to .... (the enterprise is free for up to 10 nodes)
15:52
<alkisg>
No, not about scaling, about when is it needed
15:52
I didn't imagine that people would use it even for a single server
15:53
<vagrantc>
alkisg: basically, once i have the ansible configuration for a server, it could catch fire and i could rebuild it in only as long as it takes to install an OS and run ansible
15:54
<alkisg>
Sure, but it does take a lot of time to store the configuration in the way that ansible needs it, right?
15:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: which gives me a lot of confidence...
15:54
<alkisg>
E.g. if I modify things at /etc and just use git for it, that doesn't take time,
15:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: not much more than actually doing it by hand
15:54
<bennabiy>
so it is worth setting up a recipe (is that what it is called?) for the initial install of a server, and then you could modify that for future servers if they need something different?
15:54
<alkisg>
but if I have to convert it to "ensure that this file has this string there", wouldn't it take time?
15:54
vagrantc: if that is true, then it's very nice
15:54
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i find it is time well spent... YMMV
15:55
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: what did you use to learn the system?
15:55
where would the best place to start be?
15:55
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: a small school that needed a network :)
15:55
<bennabiy>
heh
15:56
I mean to learn ansible. What resource did you use?
15:57
<vagrantc>
apt-get install ansible-doc
15:58
main thing with ansible is you can manage anything running linux+openssh-server+python
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15:58
<vagrantc>
there's no client-side configuration other than that
15:58
<alkisg>
No ansible-client needed?
15:58
<vagrantc>
yup
15:59
<alkisg>
Cool, we were talking with Phantomas about the possibility to have a non-existing configd-client :)
15:59
<bennabiy>
So you would do a base install and then install ansible, and then run the playbook?
16:00
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: you run ansible from a remote machine, just need python and openssh-server on the managed machine
16:00
<bennabiy>
ah!
16:00
that is wonderful
16:00
<vagrantc>
that's pretty much the winning point for me
16:00
<bennabiy>
I am watching the ansible video right now
16:01
yes I can see why
16:01
<vagrantc>
very minimal bootstrapping client-side
16:05
<bennabiy>
seems very similar to puppet
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16:20
<bennabiy>
vagrant: do you use facter or hiera with it?
16:31
<vagrantc>
haven't yet
16:32
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Well, we don't have to worry about when to release a 1.0 version of lightdm-webkit-greeter anymore.
16:32
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/lightdm/2015-November/000887.html
16:32
I touched it last, so it's mine now :D
16:33
<vagrantc>
hah
16:33
<bennabiy>
great!
16:33
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: did you get a chance to test the packages i built?
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16:43
<bennabiy>
Thank you vagrantc for pointing me towards ansible. I think this is just what I was hoping for to help me maintain both my LTSP labs, as well as my other servers.
16:48
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Not yet. I will this week.
16:48
Any chance you could (easily) build it for i386?
16:51
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: sure
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