IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 August 2009   (all times are UTC)

00:01
<johnny>
i realize that i never actually use afk..
00:01
only brb
00:01
or bbl
00:01
or bbiab..
00:06
<dalik>
just wrapping my head about new terms for me. the chroot enviroment is a very basic linux enviroment for the thin cilents to use. The docs talk about updating the software so this would talk about the core files such as xserver, gnome but not applications like firefox. Just the basic files needed to boot the client. Thus ltsp-build-image or ltsp-update-image will download new updates and apply them. This sounds about right?
00:07
<johnny>
not the last part
00:07
ltsp-build-image does the initial work..
00:07
you usually only want to run the very first time.. or after a distro upgrade
00:08
in which case you'd destroy your chroot and start over..
00:08
that is recommended anyways..technically you can upgrade it.. but it's easier to just remake it
00:08
ltsp-update-image only does the imaging.. no package updates
00:08
if you install packages in the chroot, then you must update the image yourself
00:09
<dalik>
ok cool
00:09
<johnny>
it's rare that you actually need to update the image software
00:09
i myself have to tho.. for local login.. i had to put an ssh key in there
00:09
or rather for autologin..
00:09
<dalik>
fair enough, I am just trying to understand the seperation between the clients and the server and how to change things for the clients.
00:10
thanks for the help
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00:11
<johnny>
most everything you need to change happens on the server
00:12
altho some settings can be changed in lts.conf.. but tha'ts not in the image.. it's in the tftpboot dir /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
00:12
check lts-parameters.txt.gz for info about available parameters
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00:49
<dalik>
very good, thanks again for the help. I have enough to make good progress. client booting into xfce and now I am going to tinker a fair bit. I love virtulization ! :)
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01:20
<alkisg>
Good morning
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05:03
<garymc>
Hi, need some advice on RAID setup for LTSP and an Asterisk box
05:03
At minute im experimenting with RAID 1 for my LTSP setup
05:03
So if I got 4 X 72GB drives in ill only have about 68 gb of space
05:04
am i best using another Raid config?
05:04
Also for Asterisk i want to store alot of Call recordings so would I be best using RAID 5
05:04
im looking for the best config to replace a faulty drive if it occurs
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08:29
<elias_a>
Hello!
08:30
A ltsp user using Ubuntu 8.04 server asked me about how to play audio cds in a terminal.
08:30
Apparently it is not a trivial task.
08:31
Any other hints than ripping it to .wav or .ogg files and using in that format?
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08:38
<garymc>
anyone recommend a good raid setup of HD for LTSP
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08:47
<ace_suares>
hi
08:51
<bieb>
garymc: how do you have it setup now?
08:52
<garymc>
hi bieb
08:52
<bieb>
hi garymc
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08:52
<garymc>
I just put 4 146 gb scsi drives in
08:53
<bieb>
how much of the drive is going to be used?
08:53
how many users?
08:53
<garymc>
3 of them as a logical drive, one of the 3 is a spare. And a single 146gb in RAID 0
08:53
?? dont know yet
08:53
<bieb>
ok.. putting a single drive in as raid 0... why?
08:53
<garymc>
I was hoping to use the 146gb RAID 0 as a mass storage, but when i click on it in the file system, it says unable to mount
08:54
Just for pure disk space... i guess
08:55
<bieb>
raid 0 is a striped set.. but if you are doing it on one drive, you are not protecting data from hardware failure
08:55
know what I mean?
08:56
<garymc>
yep
08:56
ok so i setup wrong
08:56
<bieb>
so I wouldnt do that
08:56
<garymc>
back to the drawing board lol
08:56
<bieb>
what raid card are you using?
08:57
<Q-FUNK>
:)
08:57
<garymc>
HP smart Array 5i
08:57
<bieb>
is it actual card? or on the motherboard?
08:58
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:58
<bieb>
Scotty!!!!!!!!
08:59
<garymc>
bieb i think its on motherboard
09:00
<bieb>
if it is software raid.. that may be part of the issue of not being able to mount it.
09:00
garymc: how many drives does the card support?
09:00
<garymc>
6
09:01
<bieb>
what I would do is... 2-drives in Raid 1 for the base OS, then 3 in Raid 5 for /home
09:01
<laga>
why not five for raid 5?
09:02
<bieb>
laga.. that way if you lose an OS drive, it is already mirrored and separate from the user's data
09:03
<laga>
well, why is a degraded raid 1 better than a degraded raid 5?
09:03
<sbalneav>
Raid 5's pretty grim, If it were me, I'd just do all 6 drives in a raid 1+0 (or raid10) configg, and partition /home off in it's own partition
09:04
<bieb>
not that one is better than the other.. but you are keeping the data separate from the OS
09:04
<sbalneav>
So, have, root, swap, and /home
09:07
<garymc>
so how do i do that when i install LTSP ubuntu? doe sit give me options?
09:07
I know how to setup the RAID stuff
09:07
first
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09:07
<bieb>
raid is prior to install
09:07
<garymc>
yeah i know how to do that
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09:08
<garymc>
but how do I make the ubuntu install the way you explain above
09:09
<arto>
how does one get the thinclients to authenticate to an LDAP in LTSP in unbuntu 8.10? The wiki doesn't really explain in well.
09:09* stgraber just found a big issue with ldm
09:10
<stgraber>
if someone prefix its username by a space
09:10
it'll work for login but will copy all of the thin client harddisk to the server
09:10
<laga>
stgraber: that is kinda awesome
09:10
<sbalneav>
Wha?
09:10
<stgraber>
because mktemp will get a path contain a space, will fail and return nothing, then it'll copy /* instead of /tmp/ltsp-*/* to the server
09:11
<Blinny>
Woah
09:11
<laga>
stgraber: oh, btw. did you see the mythbuntu patch?
09:11
<stgraber>
scp -r -o "ControlPath $LDM_SOCKET" -o "User $LDM_USERNAME" ${TMP_XDG_DIR_LOCAL}/* ${LDM_SERVER}:${TMP_XDG_MENU}
09:11
laga: should have been merged with last upload
09:11
<laga>
stgraber: thanks!
09:11
<stgraber>
if $LDM_USERNAME contains a space, then $TMP_XDG_DIR_LOCAL is empty
09:11
making it copy /* to the server
09:12
<sbalneav>
ah, with all the scripts.
09:13
Probably just need to clean the username variable in the C program.
09:13
<stgraber>
yeah, I have a patch for that that I'm testing
09:13
- user_env = g_strconcat("LDM_USERNAME=", ldm.username, NULL);
09:13
+ user_env = g_strconcat("LDM_USERNAME=", g_strstrip(ldm.username), NULL);
09:13
<sbalneav>
garymc: Ubuntu gives you the option on install of creating additional partitions
09:13
<stgraber>
does that make sense ? (just had a look at glib doc and found this one)
09:14
<sbalneav>
stgraber: If it was me, I'd just strip it when we read it from the greeter.
09:14
<stgraber>
ah, right
09:14
<sbalneav>
that way, it's stripped for the rest of the program.
09:15
<garymc>
sbalneav: right ok, so it asks me if i want to put home DIR on the other PArtition?
09:15
<sbalneav>
Well, you have to do some manual partitioning.
09:15
You can just say "autopartition everything"
09:15
So there's a little more work involved.
09:15
it's in the installer.
09:16
Read the Ubuntu docs. Disk partitioning's OT for #ltsp :)
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09:19
<stgraber>
sbalneav: would you do it directly in the greeter or in ldm.c ?
09:19
<garymc>
if i put 3 disk in the RAID 5 setup for /home dir. Where would my Mysql database be getting saved?
09:19
<stgraber>
sbalneav: I don't seem to find an easy way to do it in the greeter but I kind of suck at C so ... :)
09:19
<Blinny>
garymc: In Ubuntu MySQL saves its data by default in /var/lib/mysql
09:20
<garymc>
so wold it be getting saved in the RAID 1 OS part of my setup?
09:20
<sbalneav>
stgraber: one sec
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09:21
<stgraber>
http://paste.ubuntu.com/259305/
09:22
sbalneav: ^
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09:28
<Blinny>
garymc: Do you think my laptop will fit in the glove-box of my car?
09:29
<garymc>
yes if its a tiny acer one :)
09:29
<bieb>
if you snap it in half
09:29
<sbalneav>
I think you can just do "g_strtrip(ldm.username)" without actually re-assigning it.
09:29
<Blinny>
Funny question used to illustrate that you know nothing of my laptop, nor of my glovebox. Similarly, we know nothing of your RAID setup, nor should we.
09:30
<sbalneav>
I'm just verifying
09:30
<laga>
Blinny: nor do we care. ;)
09:31
Blinny: i'd also recommend getting a specialist to fit that laptop in there
09:31
<stgraber>
It will not allocate new memory, but will modify the original string and return a pointer to it.
09:31
<sbalneav>
stgraber: yeah
09:31
<stgraber>
sbalneav: from the doc, so you are right
09:31
<sbalneav>
right, I'd just add that in in the greeter iface.
09:31
that fixes it.
09:31
<stgraber>
http://paste.ubuntu.com/259308/
09:31
so that's good for commiting right ?
09:32
<sbalneav>
Yup, I'd say so.
09:32
<stgraber>
pushing
09:32
<sbalneav>
stgraber: So, I have a question about packaging.
09:32
<stgraber>
I'll have someone test it, then if it works, I'll release a new ltsp
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09:32
<stgraber>
s/ltsp/ldm/
09:33
<sbalneav>
I'm trying to produce a sabayon for hardy
09:33
<stgraber>
I'm a bit tired of home directories beeing several gigs large :)
09:33
<bieb>
stgraber: rm -rf :D
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09:33
<sbalneav>
Should work ok, but I need to lower some build deps. configure.ac specifies some version numbers of packages that need to be lowered.
09:34
So, I'm assuming in debian/rules, I need to do some magic to:
09:34
patch the configure.ac
09:34
re-run autoconf
09:34
before the ./configure is run.
09:34
<stgraber>
you could simply not ship a configure
09:35
and instead run autogen directlry from the packaging
09:35
that should give you the right depends
09:35
<sbalneav>
upstream tarball has configure in it.
09:35
<stgraber>
ah, then you'll need to patch it, yes
09:35
<sbalneav>
unless I go with a "modified" upstream tarball
09:35
Which I'd like to avoid.
09:35
Any pointers on how to do that?
09:36
I fixed a major shortcoming with Sabayon last night.
09:36
file modes are getting restored now.
09:36
<stgraber>
are you using cdbs for packaging ?
09:36
<sbalneav>
So desktop icons work.
09:36
stgraber: cdbs yes
09:36
<stgraber>
ok, then have a look at dpatch
09:36
it's really easy to use
09:37
and will let you apply patches on the upstream source code at build time
09:37
do some test patching and manage the patches
09:37
sbalneav: fix is confirmed to work btw, will tag + release now
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09:37
<sbalneav>
Right, I've got a patches directory. But I assume I need some magic in the rules file to re-run autoconf
09:38
<arto>
Where would you edit /etc/ldap/ldap.conf in unbuntu 8.10? Is it this file or is it replaced somewhere else?
09:41
<sbalneav>
arto: If it's not there, it'll be in /etc/ldap.conf
09:42
sbalneav@feniks:~$ strings /lib/security/pam_ldap.so | grep ldap.conf
09:42
/etc/ldap.conf
09:43
Looks like /etc/ldap.conf
09:47
<garymc>
stgraber how hard is it to cluster LTSP servers
09:47
I dont even know where to start
09:47
<stgraber>
garymc: did you look at the OpenVZ howto on wiki.ltsp-cluster.org ?
09:47
<arto>
ah thanks
09:48
<stgraber>
https://wiki.stgraber.org/LTSP-Cluster/Documentation/OpenVZSetup
09:48
the other url seems to be broken
09:48
<garymc>
yes i couldt get the page to load
09:48
is that the new link
09:48
<arto>
seems like when i installed "libnss-ldap" the "/etc/libbnss-ldap.conf" installed somewere else also
09:48
any ideas?
09:49
<garymc>
im just getting a page load with that link above too
09:52
<sbalneav>
arto: dpkg -L libnss-ldap
09:58
<arto>
has it moved to /etc/ldap.conf?
09:59
or /etc/ldap/ldap.conf?
10:01
<garymc>
stgraber those links dont load :(
10:02
<sbalneav>
garymc: They load for me.
10:02
<garymc>
hmmm
10:03
<sbalneav>
arto: from man nss_ldap.conf:
10:04
files: /etc/ldap.conf
10:04
<garymc>
got it working duh :S
10:04
<sbalneav>
so, like I said, it's /etc/ldap.conf
10:04
<arto>
ah i see thanks, it was looking relatively the same. :)
10:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: I would like to test out your newest sabayon release. Is there a pps you could point me towards?
10:10otavio_ has quit IRC
10:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: woop, never mind. I found the old ppa :)
10:11* _UsUrPeR_ updates
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10:14
<garymc>
dont suppose anyone knows how I create a partion on a new logical drive and create a file system?
10:14
im doing a test of adding extra drives to my LTSP setup
10:14
<ball>
garymc: that's not an ltsp-specific question.
10:17
<_UsUrPeR_>
garymc: sorry, never tried it myself
10:17
nothing wrong with asking questions though :)
10:20
<Blinny>
garymc: This may help: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/forum/installation/Partitioning
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10:29
<arto>
so im trying to Configure NSS like http://www.jukie.net/~bart/ldap/ldap-authentication-on-debian/ in unbuntu 8.10 i tried configuring it the same way in /etc/ldap.conf but its not working anyone done this or can anyone help me troubleshoot?
10:32
<sbalneav>
arto: Why are you using a DEBIAN guide, instead of the UBUNTU guide SPECIFICALLY designed for setting it up on ubuntu machines?
10:32
I.e.
10:32
https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/openldap-server.html
10:32
<arto>
eh, its one someone recommended me to yesterday.
10:32
-noob
10:32
<-noob*
10:33
<sbalneav>
Use the ubuntu guide to set up auth on ubuntu.
10:34
Use a chevy manual to service a chevy.
10:35
<rjune__>
sbalneav: you're playing mechanic now?
10:36
<sbalneav>
Just keeping people on track.
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10:38
<sbalneav>
ogra: about?
10:39
<ogra>
sbalneav, with half my brain, yes
10:40
<sbalneav>
To produce a sabayon for hardy, I need the proper debian/rules goo to be able to patch the upstream tarballs configure.ac, and rerun autoconf before the main package compile. Package uses patchsys and cdbs. Any pointers?
10:41
<arto>
When I get to the line:
10:41
sudo auth-client-config -a -p lac_ldap
10:41
I get:
10:41
Error in updating the file: 'pam_account' not found
10:41
--
10:41
Errors found. Aborting (no changes made)
10:41
:-/
10:41
<ogra>
sbalneav, ignore hardy
10:41
sbalneav, karmic feature freeze is on thu.
10:42artista-frustrad has quit IRC
10:42
<sbalneav>
ogra: ok, I have packages in my ppa that work on jaunty, and should work on karmic. How to get them in?
10:42
<ogra>
are they properly merged with the current karmic ones ?
10:42
<sbalneav>
I can produce a proper karmic package tonight.
10:43
it will be sitting in my ppa
10:43* ogra is really busy working on other stuff atm, would be nice if you could work with stgraber and highvoltage on the preparation, i'm happy to upload and do a final review
10:43
<sbalneav>
arto: plsease paste your lac_ldap file to the pastebot.
10:43
ogra: ok understood.
10:44
!pastebot
10:44
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
10:44
<arto>
where is the lac_ldap?
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10:45
<ogra>
arto, why do you use debian documentation for ubuntu ?
10:45
<arto>
im not anymore.
10:45
this is in the unbuntu doc.
10:46
<sbalneav>
arto: dpkg -L auth-client-config | grep lac_ldap
10:46
<cliebow>
wish me luck..going for a job interview..
10:47
<sbalneav>
cliebow++
10:47
<ball>
good luck cliebow
10:48
<sbalneav>
arto: Have you installed the ldap-auth-config package?
10:48
<arto>
sbalneav, not found
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10:48
<arto>
ah
10:48
let me check
10:48
yes
10:49
i have
10:49
<sbalneav>
dpkg -L ldap-auth-config | grep lac_ldap
10:49
<arto>
not found
10:50
<rjune__>
apt-cache search lac_ldap show anything?
10:50
<arto>
negative
10:50
<sbalneav>
Did you do the dpkg-reconfigure step?
10:50
<arto>
Yes
10:51
should debconf manage ldap config?
10:52
<sbalneav>
Well, I do ldap, but I have my own config file that I use for auth-client-config
10:53
<arto>
meaning?
10:53
<sbalneav>
Either way, this is OT for #ltsp. I'd check in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-directory or search on the forums.
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10:55
<arto>
k
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11:14
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok! I just updated Koala to it's latest, and tested with the DLW 1520 (atom chipset)
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11:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
it detected video perfectly, bypassing the LVDS monitor. I am guessing the atom tweak has been made permanent
11:16
I am getting the STRANGEST artifacting though. When running a dual monitor setup, the DVI output is freaking out. The VGA output looks fine though.
11:17
whenever I move windows, and sometimes just the mouse itself, I am seeing what appears to be tearing on the DVI side
11:18Ahmuck-Sr has quit IRC
11:29* _UsUrPeR_ tests more
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11:34
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, after testing our atom thinclient (DLW 1520) with just single monitors plugged in, everything appears to be ok.
11:35
I have tested both DVI and VGA output, and they both look great when plugged in singularly.
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11:37
<_UsUrPeR_>
about the previous comments above pertaining to artifacting: all artifacting was actually appearing on the VGA output, NOT the DVI
11:37
hey LNS
11:38
<Lns>
morning _UsUrPeR_
11:38
what's the good word there buddy =)
11:38
<_UsUrPeR_>
testing out koala with DLW 1520
11:38
atom chipset
11:38
things are much better (previously X would not start)
11:38
<Lns>
koala...that sounds familiar
11:38
<_UsUrPeR_>
9.10
11:39
ubuntu
11:39
<Lns>
oooooooh =) cool
11:39
didn't know that's what it was called
11:39
<_UsUrPeR_>
Karmic koala :)
11:39
<Lns>
oh ok, i heard karmic hehe
11:40
<_UsUrPeR_>
they should have gone with kangaroo
11:40
<Lns>
lol..that woulda been cool
11:40
<_UsUrPeR_>
but I think it's hard to find an adjective to rhyme with kangaroo...
11:40
<Lns>
...karmic? =p
11:40
<elias_a>
chaotic?
11:40
<sbalneav>
Didgereedoo?
11:40
<_UsUrPeR_>
must be an adjective wthat starts with a K as well I believe :)
11:40
<Lns>
bwwwaaaaarrrrr
11:41
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm...
11:41* _UsUrPeR_ will write an angry letter to the naming committee this moment
11:41
<_UsUrPeR_>
anyway, on top of that good news, add the fact the intel driver tweak for LVDS works out-of-the-box now! :D
11:41
no more xorg.conf tweaks! :D
11:42
unfortunately, there's a nasty artifacting issue on the VGA output when running two monitors
11:42
<epsas>
you have two monitor support with your ltsp setup?
11:42
<elias_a>
_UsUrPeR_: Like no video?
11:43
<_UsUrPeR_>
elias_a: to the contrary, it has proper output at proper resolutions
11:43
however, when there's movement on either monitor (dragging a box, opening window, etc...) there is a nasty tearing effect on the VGA output side
11:43
<elias_a>
_UsUrPeR_: Ok.
11:44
<_UsUrPeR_>
I also just finished testing out an EeePC 1000HE in an attempt to see how the intel drivers' LVDS tweak would affect it (being that it actually has an LVDS monitor). LDM is kind of weird looking. It only shows half of the cool white-background wallpaper. The other half is blank.
11:44
it still logs in fine, and the monitor looks great once logged in
11:45
epsas: dual monitor support is go
11:46
<epsas>
yay!
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12:22
<zamba>
sbalneav: checking it out now
12:22
sbalneav: the latest build of sabayon, that is
12:25
sbalneav: that crashed on me when i tried to save
12:26
sbalneav: http://pastebin.com/m3aad24d1
12:26
sbalneav: there's the debug log
12:28
sbalneav: nevermind, it worked when i started fresh
12:29
<Lns>
hardy package still has broken python deps, la la la la ;)
12:34BugsBunnyBR_ has joined #ltsp
12:36
<johnny>
hmm.. will it even work on hardy?
12:36
i guess that was the first release using gio ?
12:36BugsBunnyBR_ has quit IRC
12:36
<johnny>
i know we can't go any or much lower.. just because of the fact that we need gio..
12:37BugsBunnyBR has quit IRC
12:46
<Lns>
johnny: i saw sbalneav's ppa had gutsy repo in it ;)
12:46
<zamba>
sbalneav: creating a symlink to the desktop crashes it
12:46
<johnny>
zamba, it's azip file. we don't support symlinks.. yet
12:46
we have to fake em
12:46
iirc
12:46
zamba, he just wrote file mode support last night
12:47
so we must be close
12:47
<zamba>
yeah, i know
12:48
sabayon, i hate to say it, is not production ready
12:48
problem with the panel as well, can't modify that either
12:49
<johnny>
you're not production ready
12:49
<zamba>
in the editor i have removed everything and just added shiretoko, but when i log in with the user, it's replaced by the three default ubuntu icons
12:49
johnny: agreed :)
12:49
<Lns>
johnny: lol!
12:50
<johnny>
just think about the contribution to the open community you're making tho zamba
12:50
<Lns>
zamba: sabayon is being actively worked on right now. it's definitely not ready for prime time, but it's getting closer by the day. Give it time and keep giving us reports on what works and what doesn't and it'll get there that much faster =)
12:50
<zamba>
Lns: yeah :)
12:50
<johnny>
Lns, only problem is that some people need it sooner rather than later
12:50
<zamba>
johnny: nono, don't take it that way
12:51
<johnny>
zamba, that's not just from you
12:51
it's what i see on the posts to the bug reports
12:51
<Lns>
johnny: well we welcome patches you know ;)
12:51
<johnny>
luckily sbalneav fixed some issues that were way beyond my realm of understanding
12:51
<zamba>
editing the ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs manually didn't work, btw..
12:51
<johnny>
Lns, it's possible there might be patches from me again
12:51
<zamba>
if you remember from the other day?
12:51
i wanted to set the default location for the documents link
12:51
<johnny>
i recommended that you edited the global one if possible anyways
12:52
not the local
12:52
zamba, it sucks that we have to work around some things from *nix that just weren't meant to be used the way you're using them
12:53
like /etc/skel.. no way to be specific about which users get which skel..
12:53
<zamba>
johnny: you talking about the default location for documents now or?
12:53
<johnny>
all users get skel
12:53
<zamba>
ah
12:53
yeah
12:53
<johnny>
zamba, yes.. /etc/xdg/user-dirs.default or whatever
12:53mikeybs has joined #ltsp
12:53
<johnny>
or you could drop it in /etc/skel.
12:53
by default the one in ~/.config doesn't exist
12:53
it falls back elsewhere
12:54
<zamba>
ok
12:54
what about default language.. where is the best place to set that?
12:54
<johnny>
default language for what?
12:55
the system?
12:55
<zamba>
UI and input language
12:55
yeah
12:55
both the keyboard layout and the whole system
12:55
<johnny>
uhmm.. i'm not sure where on ubuntu..
12:55
these other gents should know tho
12:55
<mikeybs>
is there any way to set up an X configuration so that when thin clients go down (power loss or hardware failure) the X session on the server is preserved and a different thin client could reconnect to it by logging in with the same username, basically what happens under MS terminal server...
12:55
<johnny>
mikeybs, not yet..
12:55
perhaps some day
12:55
<mikeybs>
anyone working on it?
12:55
<johnny>
probably :)
12:55
Lns, you know something about this right?
12:56
mikeybs, i know many people around here can answer that better than i.. so stick around, perhaps ask in an hour or so if nobody gives you a decent answer
12:56
<mikeybs>
I'd be interested in joining an effort is there is any sort of open source project trying to acheive this
12:56
<johnny>
there are.. i just don't know which one is actually active now
12:56vagrantc has quit IRC
12:56
<mikeybs>
ok
12:57
any web sites you know of that would be worth me poking around on?
12:57
<johnny>
one was a gsoc project that basically wanted to do what screen does.. but for X
12:57
mikeybs, you might want to ask around on #xorg
12:57
i think that's a real channel :)
12:57
<NeonLicht>
johnny: doesn't VNC already does it?
12:57
<johnny>
vnc ain't X..
12:57
we can't get local dev on vnc
12:57
<mikeybs>
I had tried a setup where clients connect to vnc session instead of using X sessions
12:58
<johnny>
easily anyways..
12:58
<mikeybs>
but the load skyrockets
12:58
<johnny>
i'm sure it does
12:59
<mikeybs>
yeah, I'll go ask in xorg, it would certainly have to be done at the X level, something that would hold the X client stuff open if the X server drops
12:59
I just figured this channel would have more interest in it
12:59
<Lns>
johnny: afk hold on
13:00
<johnny>
mikeybs, we do.. but X devel is something that not many people understand
13:00
it's hard to get involved
13:00
most people here are users..
13:00
<zamba>
i'd like to get involved, any way i can
13:00
but i don't have the "skills" for it
13:01
<johnny>
skills for what?
13:01
there are tons of ways to get involved that don't involve writing code
13:01
<mikeybs>
well I'm no X guru either, but I always like to see what I can learn
13:01
<zamba>
sure.. i'm aware of t hat
13:01
<johnny>
well that's what it takes.. somebody willing to spend the time and bang their head against the wall
13:01
then the problems will become solved..
13:01
and you could probably get a job anywhere :)
13:01
so it won't be a total loss :)
13:01
<mikeybs>
yes, from some background reading I've done though, X does seem to be somewhat of a nightmare to develop
13:02
<johnny>
well it's getting easier as we abstract more from it
13:02
the total effort began after the xorg fork
13:02
imo
13:02
<mikeybs>
agreed
13:02
<johnny>
it was almost completely stagnant before then
13:02
<mikeybs>
that certainly seemed to be a big move in the right direction
13:02
breaking it all up into modules
13:03
<johnny>
removing the need for config files for most people was good too
13:03
and now the whole kernel mode setting thing
13:03
i think that shoudl make certain things much easier
13:04
<mikeybs>
it seems to me that what is needed is something of a 'virtual' X server that would have no physical display, but would allow a real physical display X server to connect to it
13:04
or an X middle layer
13:04
whatever you want to call it
13:05
something to keep the X client side engaged and running in the event to physical X server dies
13:05
<johnny>
are you familiar with kernel mode setting?
13:05Phaux has quit IRC
13:05
<johnny>
i think that would be a step forward to what you want
13:05
anything that takes more out of X must be helpful in decluttering
13:06
<mikeybs>
I know of it, but haven't used it extensively
13:06
I've enabled it and got it working, but I'm no guru
13:07
<johnny>
when all drivers support it we won't need X to run as root anymore
13:07
which will be another step forward..
13:07
<Blinny>
echo
13:09
mikeybs: We were discussing something similar in this channel last week.
13:09
<johnny>
Blinny, when aren't we discussing that ? :)
13:09
it comes up every month i bet
13:10
what it's probably gonna takes is some money..
13:10
<mikeybs>
was there any moral to the discussion? :)
13:10
<sbalneav>
zamba: Symlinks aren't supported
13:10
<zamba>
sbalneav: ok
13:10
<johnny>
yet..
13:11
<sbalneav>
no time soon
13:11
<Lns>
mikeybs: johnny, etc. - I think Gadi had the best things to say regarding "hotdesking" (like sun ray tcs can do apparently), I'm not aware of any real projects right now though myself
13:12
I think Gadi had a good explanation as to why it can/cannot work via X11 proto alone
13:12
<sbalneav>
I really like how johnny keeps building up people's expectations about what's coming with sabayon, when I'm looking at all the recent commit logs and I don't see his name in there.
13:12
<johnny>
sbalneav, i am? i didn't give any timeframe
13:12
<sbalneav>
I think people should only build up expectations on things they're actively contributing to.
13:12
<Lns>
sbalneav: yeah i heard from johnny that you were going to implement the waffles template soon
13:12
<johnny>
being in the pipeline doesn't give any say as to when.. the pipeline could be long
13:12
lol
13:13
sbalneav, i did contribute to sabayon.. and probably will again soon
13:13
i just couldn't get xephyr working
13:13
so i got stuck..
13:13
looks like that is finally solved
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13:13
<mikeybs>
looks like vnc sessions are the only real solution at this point, unfortunately it means I can only support like 1/3 of the users per server as I can with just X
13:14
<Blinny>
mikeybs: NX does something similar as well.
13:14
<johnny>
it required something far out of my area of expertise
13:14
<zamba>
sbalneav: i have another issue, and that's related to the .config directory.. i've tried modifying user-dirs.dirs in there, but the changes aren't replicated to the sessions..
13:14
<Lns>
mikeybs: what kind of stuff are your users doing? VNC is really kind of a last ditch effort for stuff like this when you have X
13:14
<mikeybs>
yes, I've played with NX
13:14
<zamba>
sbalneav: i can btw. report that the file mode thing fixed the launchers on the desktop
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13:15
<zamba>
sbalneav: so that works
13:16
<sbalneav>
So, you're doing what to the .config directory? Have you looked in the zip file to see if it's there?
13:16
<zamba>
where is the zip file?
13:16
<sbalneav>
/etc/desktop-profiles
13:16
<zamba>
ah
13:17
<sbalneav>
take a look in the zip file, see if there file's there
13:17
<zamba>
doesn't look like it's there
13:17
<sbalneav>
ok
13:17
<zamba>
hold on, i'll try something
13:17mikeybs has left #ltsp
13:18
<zamba>
oh, it's there
13:18
<sbalneav>
So, it *is* there in the zip?
13:19
<zamba>
yup
13:20
<sbalneav>
So, it's not being unpacked in a userid by sabayon-apply? Can you confirm it's NOT in the users's config after login?
13:20
<zamba>
i'll try logging back on again
13:23
hm.. strange.. it's being unpacked, but it's not "working"
13:23
i have to do some poking here myself.. could be that this is not related to sabayon
13:23
<sbalneav>
So, explain to me exactly what you're putting in there
13:24
Are perms wrong on the file, perhaps?
13:28
<zamba>
i'm going to try directly through nautilus and see what happens then
13:28
to update the bookmarks through there
13:29
<johnny>
the file you need is .gtk-bookmarks
13:29
<zamba>
i think this is a problem with the locale
13:30
<johnny>
do you have the associated gtk program?
13:30
<zamba>
ah
13:30
looks like i have to manually override it there..?
13:31
hm.. no.. it's there.. file:///data/dokumenter Dokumenter, but when i log in, the path is not preserved
13:31
<johnny>
xdg-user-dirs-gtk
13:31
<zamba>
i've also removed the other bookmarks, like Videos, Music and so on, but they are still there when i log in
13:31
<johnny>
do you have that program?
13:31
<zamba>
could this be the same thing that's causing the panel to be reset as well?
13:32
i have xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update, but not xdg-user-dirs-gtk
13:32
<johnny>
hmm.. i don't have that one.
13:32
i don't think..
13:32
oh yes i do..
13:32
that's a new one
13:55
<sbalneav>
zamba: So, something I need to look at? Or no?
13:59
<johnny>
if sabayon-apply happens after xdg-user-dirs-update in xinitrc.d then i can see how it wouldn't work
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14:12
<sbalneav>
johnny: sabayon apply gets done at 60sabayon-apply, with the xdg-user-dirs-update happening in 60xdg-user-dirs-update. So, theoretically, it *should* be happening before, but putting sabayon-apply at, say, 59sabayon-apply would test it for sure.
14:13
<johnny>
zamba, give that a shot
14:13
i wonder if we should try to do that stuff in sabayon tho anyways
14:14
since xdg-user-dirs doesn't really care about groups and whatnot, it's just going to apply what's in /etc/xdg
14:14
even if we want different links for different sabayon profile groups
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14:50
<PMantis>
Hi guys. In LTSP 4, there was an option for SCREEN_01=shell. That doesn't seem to work in LTSP 5 now, clients simply stop booting, no shell, DM.
14:50
<johnny>
it should still work
14:50
it just depends on where you did it.. and on what distro
14:51
also.. you should probably use SCREEN_02=shell
14:51
<PMantis>
Ubuntu 8.10, edited /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf , placed in [default]
14:51
<johnny>
ok
14:51
change it to 2
14:51
<PMantis>
Ok, we'll see.
14:51
Rebooting...
14:52
<johnny>
PMantis, if ubuntu every switches to use screen 1 for xorg you'll be future proofed
14:52
like fedora has
14:52
<PMantis>
Rather than... 7?
14:53
<johnny>
yes
14:54
<alkisg>
SCREEN_01 doesn't work in Ubuntu, it's used by something else, don't remember what, maybe usplash?
14:54
<johnny>
so you have flicker free transisition to X from the kms enabled bootup screen (if you have cards with appropriate drivers)
14:54
<PMantis>
Hmmm, "SCREEN_02 = shell" is in place, black screen. Ctrl-Alt-F2, Ctrl-Alt-F7.. neither show anything. :(
14:55
<johnny>
what's up with all the spacing?
14:55
SCREEN_02=shell
14:55
not SCREEN_02 = shell
14:55
<PMantis>
Tabs for formatting
14:55
<johnny>
no..
14:55
not sure if that works
14:55
altho then again.. perhaps getltscfg hasn't changed since ages
14:55
<alkisg>
PMantis: try both SCREEN_02=shell, SCREEN_07=ldm
14:56
<johnny>
alkisg, that would be weird
14:56
<PMantis>
Well, I'll try it.
14:56
<johnny>
7 defaults to ldm on ubuntu
14:56
<alkisg>
johnny: I think that's the way to do it...
14:56
<johnny>
you shuldn't have to set 7 at all, unless you want something other than ldm
14:56
<PMantis>
That's the way it was read in LTSP 4...
14:56
<alkisg>
johnny: I'm not sure, but I think if you set SCREEN_02=shell, then ldm doesn't start.
14:57
<johnny>
well.. i think that isn't part of his problem.. yet
14:57
first he just wants the shell to show at all :)
14:57
<alkisg>
k
14:57* PMantis nods
14:58
<PMantis>
Black, blank screen again, adding 07.
14:58
THAT gave me a DM
14:58
<johnny>
but did you get the shell?
14:59
<PMantis>
Ctrl-Alt-F2 is black, ..F7 takes me back to DM. No shell. :(
14:59
So, where's the "shell" start script? Hmmm
14:59
<johnny>
guess you're broken somewhere else then.. outh
14:59
ouch*
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15:00
<PMantis>
Are we sure the "key word" is "shell"?
15:01
<alkisg>
"(10:51:15 μμ) PMantis: Ubuntu 8.10, edited /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf , placed in [default]" ==> do you use nfs?
15:01
With nbd, the default lts.conf location is in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
15:01
This way you don't have to do ltsp-update-image after each change to lts.conf
15:02
<PMantis>
alkisg: NBD is installed, but I had t edit /etc/exports and restart nfs for the TC to boot at all, so it's using NFS
15:03
<alkisg>
PMantis: are you sure? You'd have to also change pxelinux.cfg/default to make nfs work
15:04
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS/ ==> look at the "Reverting to NFS if you want to" paragraph
15:04
<PMantis>
Hmmmmm
15:04
using: DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img nbdport=2001
15:05
<alkisg>
Yeah, I don't think you're using nfs
15:05
(btw, did you put nbdport there?)
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15:06
<PMantis>
Hmmm, I cleared /etc/exports and showmount -e is blank... client still booted, so I stand corrected.
15:06
<johnny>
huh?
15:07
<coordinador>
hi
15:07
<johnny>
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf should work no matter what method used
15:07
nfs, nbd or anything else
15:07
<PMantis>
alkisg: I did not place nbdport=2001 in there
15:07
<johnny>
PMantis, yes.. it is shell
15:08
<alkisg>
PMantis: hmmm there's some port autodetection code, I think that's what put the port there.... I don't remember which file it reads to see the port though, maybe inetd.conf
15:08
Anyway if it boots no problem
15:08
<PMantis>
johnny: so alkisg is correct to say I'm using nbd, since no exports and still booting....
15:08
<johnny>
matters not in the sense of which file you edit tho
15:08
<alkisg>
johnny: if nfs is used, then /var/lib/tftpboot..../lts.conf isn't read at all afaik.
15:08
<johnny>
i'm not sure why the topic was rought up
15:08
really?
15:09
<alkisg>
Yup
15:09
<PMantis>
However, i don't get why F2 is black, w/o any text for shell, login screen, nothing.
15:09
<johnny>
that sounds like a bug?
15:09
you shouldn't get a login screen.. just a prompt.. so another bug :)
15:09
<alkisg>
johnny: not really. If one is using nfs, why shouldn't everything be in the chroot?
15:09
<johnny>
why shouldn't it fall back ?
15:09
so you can use the same settings whether nfs or nbd..
15:09pmatulis has quit IRC
15:09
<johnny>
just like it does now
15:09
use lts.conf if it exists.. otherwise use the other one
15:10
<PMantis>
Heh
15:10* alkisg leaves that reply for vagrantc :)
15:10
<PMantis>
Ahhh, vagrantc, I remember him
15:10
<johnny>
the only way to tell is to look at the initramfs
15:11
<PMantis>
Well, either way, if I edit "/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf" the behavior of the thin client changes, so it's not reading lts.conf from inside the image afaik.
15:12
<alkisg>
PMantis: if you don't have a /tftpboot...lts.conf, then the lts.conf from the chroot is used
15:12
But you have to do ltsp-update-image to take effect
15:13
<PMantis>
alkisg: That makes sense to me
15:13
<nubae_>
it is inted.conf that reads the port
15:13
<PMantis>
inetd.conf. :)
15:13
<alkisg>
PMantis: why don't you try "the correct way"? I.e. with lts.conf in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf ?
15:14
<nubae_>
yeah that one, :p
15:14
<PMantis>
alkisg: That's what I've been editing, an where my config is...
15:14
lts.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc is nothing but comments.
15:14
<nubae_>
but... port is also mentioned in pxe.0.config/default
15:15
or whatever its called
15:15
<johnny>
alkisg, i'm confused .. that is what he has been doing.. where did you see that he was doing otherwie???
15:15
<alkisg>
Maybe I have misread something...
15:15
<johnny>
alkisg, are you safe from fires?
15:16
<alkisg>
Yeah they are too far away from me
15:16
<johnny>
good
15:16* alkisg thinks he was confused by the nfs thing that was mentioned
15:16
<nubae_>
oh, is it fire weather in Greece right now?
15:16
<alkisg>
Yeah Athens is on fire...
15:16
<nubae_>
oh wow
15:17
<PMantis>
Wonderful... :( I live in "Greece", but that's a town in the states.
15:17
<alkisg>
Heh :)
15:17
Anyway PMantis, can you upload your current lts.conf to pastebot.ltsp.org ?
15:18
<PMantis>
alkisg: Heh. Not much to share, it's 5 lines under [default].
15:19Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
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15:21
<ltsppbot>
"PMantis" pasted "lts.conf" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/487
15:22
<PMantis>
alkisg: I cleaned the IP/domain, but that's commented anyhow.
15:22
So, 3 lines in effect right now.
15:23
<alkisg>
LOCAL_APPS is true by default
15:23
So not needed
15:23
<PMantis>
ok...
15:24
I installed ssh in the chroot for i386, so I can ssh in to the thin client.
15:24shawnp0wers has joined #ltsp
15:24
<alkisg>
If you can login to the clients, you can also run ltsp-localapps xterm
15:24
...and you can also unlock the root account and login to SCREEN_01
15:25
<PMantis>
I'm not sure I follow you there...
15:25
ltsp-localapps xterm?
15:26
<alkisg>
If you are able to login in a thin client, and run `ltsp-localapps xterm`, this opens a local terminal
15:26
From which you can execute local commands, e.g. see the syslog...
15:26
<PMantis>
Ahhh, ok
15:27
<johnny>
alkisg, there's also a debug terminal variable
15:27
which opens up a local terminal on login
15:27
<alkisg>
Yeah, LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL or something
15:27
<sbalneav>
PMantis: Another trick that I like to do is set the root password in the chroot, so that I can simply alt-f1 into the root login, and then get in from there.
15:27
<rjune__>
PMantis! howdy
15:28
<PMantis>
Hi rjune__!!!
15:28
rjune__: Long time....
15:28
<rjune__>
no doubt. what's new?
15:28
<PMantis>
Oh, and Scotty!!!!
15:28
heh
15:29
rjune__: Built a bunch more phone systems for clients lately.
15:29lammert has joined #ltsp
15:29
<rjune__>
cool deal
15:29
raw asterisk? or trixbox? or something else?
15:29
<PMantis>
rjune__: Right now, I'm working on debugging some things with a new LTSP 5 / Ubuntu install.
15:29
rjune__: Ubuntu / Asterisk / Freepbx. Trixbox is bloatware IMO.
15:29
<rjune__>
heh
15:30
<PMantis>
Also, since my first major PBX was for Canonical, I had to use Ubuntu there, not CentOS in Trix. LOL
15:30
So, I got used to that.n
15:31
<rjune__>
You work for Canonical too?
15:31
<PMantis>
Anyway, sbalneav. I'd love to do that - it's what I was trying to do. Buuuut no shell can be found. :( http://pastebot.ltsp.org/487
15:32
<lammert>
ppl, I have a little question for yah because it's almost not documented on the internet and you guys found the solution !
15:32
<PMantis>
rjune__: Remember UBZ / BTS in montreal?
15:32
<rjune__>
PMantis: yeah
15:32bieb has left #ltsp
15:32
<lammert>
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=874568 You guys helped this guy with his problem maybe you could help me ?
15:32
<PMantis>
rjune__: Mark saw me using my cordless phone to talk to my wife, and I got a contract out of that to build their call center PBX.
15:32
<rjune__>
Nice.
15:33
<alkisg>
PMantis: unlocking the root account is a different trick, no lts.conf involved. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
15:33
<PMantis>
rjune__: 3 years later... they just rebuilt it and too the expertise in house (last month).
15:33
s/too/took
15:33
<alkisg>
Look at the lines below sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -u root
15:34
<PMantis>
rjune__: I expected it to be much sooner than that... maintained it since then.
15:35
alkisg: That's nbd to chroot and run passwd. Bu, I'd love to at least HAVE a prompt first. :)
15:36
<alkisg>
Wait, if you don't put anything at all to lts.conf, you don't have a prompt?
15:36
(with alt+ctrl+f1)
15:36
<PMantis>
Not afaik.
15:36
I'll try though.
15:39Egyptian[Work] has joined #ltsp
15:40
<lammert>
One last try : howto get a module in a initramfs witch is used on a live cd, need pxe booting but the initramfs is missing the sky2 module (ubuntu 8.04)
15:40
<Egyptian[Work]>
evening all
15:40
how do you guys deal with package kit?
15:40
<johnny>
?
15:41
<PMantis>
alkisg, johnny: Actually, I installed Ubuntu 8.04 server 64 bit, then install xubuntu-desktop, then ltsp 4. That''s been running a while. I recently cloned the LTSP Virtual machine to a new VM, and installed the LTSP5 parts. So I guess I should say, XUbuntu, but close enough. :)
15:41
<johnny>
there's a doc for that lammert .. but does somebody have a link?
15:41
Egyptian[Work], what's the question?
15:41
<PMantis>
I commented out all in lts.conf, rebooted, and I can ctrl-alt-f1, but NOTHING is on the screen... totally black. :(
15:42
<lammert>
johnny http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=874568 on this link I get the solution for ltsp but I need it for a live cd ?
15:42
<Egyptian[Work]>
johnny: on fedora11 .. there is this disgusting thing that is "supposed" to help the end user ..it is called packagekit
15:42
<lammert>
can you give me a quick howto
15:43
<Egyptian[Work]>
instead .. everytime a user logs in .. it gets teh repo's db
15:43
<johnny>
disgusting thing?
15:44
i use it all the time.. it's pretty good minus a few ui things..
15:44artista-frustrad has quit IRC
15:45
<johnny>
Egyptian[Work], do you mean it fetches updates on login?
15:46
Egyptian[Work], see if there is a relevant bug on the tracker
15:46
<Egyptian[Work]>
johnny: no .. that requires root
15:46
<johnny>
to not show it to non admin users at all
15:46
<Egyptian[Work]>
johnny: what it does is gets repo data
15:46
<johnny>
excuse me.. fetches list of possible updates .. :)
15:46
<Egyptian[Work]>
filelists et al .. to inform the user of updates
15:46
yes
15:46artista-frustrad has joined #ltsp
15:47
<Egyptian[Work]>
johnny: plus .. i have my systems setup to yum -y update at 3 am in the morning .. on 256kb/s .. i dont want to refresh the repo data everytime a new user logs in
15:47
<johnny>
Egyptian[Work], understood
15:48
<PMantis>
Ok, well... my goal on LTSP is to get local apps working. In order to do that, the thin client needs to know about the UID, etc. Trying to get LDAP auth working, since the servers all use it. When I turn it on, the kernel logger hangs the bootup process indefinitely. Was *going* to login to the thin client to see if I can see what's up, but I can't even get a damn shell. So, that's why I was looking at SCREEN_01=shell.
15:48
<alkisg>
PMantis: are you able to login in a thin client with ldm?
15:48
<PMantis>
alkisg: Yup
15:48
<johnny>
Egyptian[Work], try removing the gpk-update-icon from /etc/xdg/autostart ?
15:48
<PMantis>
alkisg: but ltsp-localapps is not found.
15:48
<johnny>
it's not there in 8.04 is it?
15:48
<alkisg>
Oooops :)
15:49
<johnny>
PMantis, me thinks your ltsp is too old
15:49
<PMantis>
lol
15:49
Ok, time to complain to jamm
15:49
jammcq
15:49
<johnny>
huh?
15:49
he's not even developing.. don't blame him for anything :)
15:49
<PMantis>
I have to, he wanted me to install this on an LTS release. :)
15:49
<johnny>
ah
15:50
he probably doesn't know .. or maybe i am completely wrong :)
15:50
anyways.. lots of fixes went into local apps since then.. so it's possible you can get it to work.. it just won't be as good as what we have now
15:50
i think the executable is there in 8.04 .. just diabled by default, since it wasn't complete
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15:51
<johnny>
Egyptian[Work], so you gonna try that?
15:51
<PMantis>
sbalneav: Will the scanner package you gave jammcq work on newer Ubuntu distributions?
15:51
<johnny>
Egyptian[Work], this is one of those problems that should be solved by something like sabayon..
15:51
altho .. sabayon is solving the problme at the wrong level..
15:51
it should be solved at the fhs level probably..
15:51
<PMantis>
sbalneav: Perhaps we'll have to upgrade from 8.04 to 9.04.
15:52
<alkisg>
PMantis: those are the contents of ltsp-localapps, maybe the xprop magic still works if you create such a script: http://pastebin.com/f4c94efe8
15:52
<johnny>
PMantis, what about 8.10 ?
15:52
it was there
15:52
<Egyptian[Work]>
johnny: the #fedora ppl have recommended i remove the gtk and qt parts of package kit only instead of all of it
15:52
<johnny>
Egyptian[Work], i just gave you a better option
15:52
<sbalneav>
PMantis: why do you need localapps? jammcq didn't seem to need thoe?
15:54
<johnny>
Egyptian[Work], try X-GNOME-Autostart-enabled=false in there ..
15:54
<Egyptian[Work]>
johnny: i agree but with the uninstall .. i also removed the entry in /etc/xdg/autostart .. i will give it a day and see what happens (previous uninstall had it automatically reinstalled as a dependency of system-config-printer)
15:54
<johnny>
if you install it again, just add that to the autostart entry
15:54
<PMantis>
sbalneav: I thought part of this project was to run firefox locally, as well as local devices.
15:54
<Egyptian[Work]>
johnny: thanks will do
15:55
<johnny>
Egyptian[Work], it's not a problem packagekit can solve anyways.. so don't be mad at them :)
15:55
<PMantis>
sbalneav: Perhaps I'm working on this for nothing. :( I'll have to ask him tomorrow... his 2nd daughter's going off to college today.
15:55
<johnny>
the icon needs to be shown to non root users.. but just like networkmanager.. there's no easy way to show it only to specific users.. need to fix this thing elsewhere
15:55
<Egyptian[Work]>
i m not ..just frustrated ..
15:56
johnny: i had thought i had fixed the problem months ago .. and it sneaked up on me again recently
15:56CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
15:56
<sbalneav>
PMantis: Well, afaik, you didn't want/need to run firefox locally, and localdevs work fine in 8.04. Bu check with jammcq and see if he really want firefox locally. AFAIK, EWBC doesn't have a lot of workstations suitable for localapps anyway
15:56
<johnny>
if you removed the file instead of adding that key to the file, yes.. the probelm will happen again if you upgrade packagekit :)
15:57
<PMantis>
sbalneav: Many of them have been upgraded. The Jammin 125's are few now.
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16:23
<Q-FUNK>
re
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16:28
<Q-FUNK>
anyone here with Geode GX2 hardware to spare?
16:29
<lammert>
johnny: I've apt-get initramfs-tools read the man page and i'll think i'll get it now
16:29
install it in a chroot
16:29
add the module to the modules dir and in the file hook-functions add the filename
16:29
and then run update-initramfs -u in the chroot
16:30
only two questions left
16:30
then i'll get to "sudo ltsp-update-kernels" is there some equilivant command for a normal ubuntu ?
16:30
Do i also need to install the linux kernel image in the chroot ?
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16:35
<sbalneav>
Anyone familiar here with kvm? I'm trying to set up a karmic host to allow me to produce the package needed for sabayon.
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16:36
<laga>
sbalneav: just use a chroot?
16:36
<Q-FUNK>
I use virtualbox for this, here
16:37
or yes, a chroot produced with pbuilder. you then use 'sudo pbuilder --login' to use the chroot in an interactive way.
16:39
<sbalneav>
How do I build karmic pbuilders on a jaunty box?
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16:41
<sbalneav>
heh, did a ubuntu-vm-builder of a jaunty host, worked fine. Networking works. apt-get dist upgrade to karmic, lost my network.
16:44
<Q-FUNK>
right, probabl because dist-upgrading network-manager inside that kills the connection
16:44
you can probably launch dhclient manually and resume the upgrade, though
16:45
sbalneav: by specifying karmic as the build target in pbuilderrc. you might need to install debootstrap from jaunty-backports for this, thlough
16:45
<sbalneav>
I've got no eth0 :(
16:51
Wonder if there's a way to build a karmic vm directly.
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16:55
<Q-FUNK>
yes, with a recen debootstrap
17:02
<coordinador>
is there a way to send messages to users like winpopup?
17:02
i tried notify-send but i cannot make it worked to another user
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17:02
<coordinador>
*work
17:02
<alkisg>
sbalneav: did you copy resolv.conf to the karmic chroot? (/me often forgets it and remembers it when he sees he has no net in the chroot...)
17:03
<sbalneav>
no go. Updated my debootstrap, tried a ubuntu-vm-builder kvm karmic, says jaunty's the highest
17:04
<Q-FUNK>
hm
17:04
<sbalneav>
I know the debootstrap supports karmic, as I can see that it's got a karmic target
17:04
<Q-FUNK>
sbalneav: could it be that it uses cdebootstrap instead of debootstrap?
17:05
<alkisg>
sbalneav: you can also upload your sources directly to launchpad, in the karmic series, and let *it* do the compilation. Slow, but works :)
17:05
<Q-FUNK>
sbalneav: right, use the PPA :)
17:06
<sbalneav>
That's not the way ogra wants me to do it.
17:07
<Q-FUNK>
sbalneav: ogra should provide you the solution then, I think ;)
17:08
<sbalneav>
You know, I'm about this --> <-- far from basically saying F*ck it, and walking away from this whole thing :(
17:10
<Q-FUNK>
sbalneav: I'd say simply use the tools that you are comfortable with. if pbuilder with a chroot works ofr you, use that. if you prefer some virtual machine, use that.
17:12
<sbalneav>
I'm at work, and don't have time/bandwidth to download a karmic iso and build a new machine, which is my normal method for this sort of thing.
17:13
<Q-FUNK>
ah
17:13
still at the legal aid place?
17:14
<coordinador>
i tried notify-send but i cannot make it work to another user
17:14
to send messages to another usre
17:14
<sbalneav>
I find it absolutely STAGGERING, however, this this whole "virtualization" thing that everyone goes on and on and on about being the most WONDERFUL thing in the world is so fr*gging hard to do what would seem to be the MOST OBVIOUS thing to do which is to run the NEXT VERSION's os in the current version you've got.
17:15
I don't even have jaunty here I'm on the fabulously supported LTS version hardy here. I'm ssh'ing into my home jaunty box trying to get something working.
17:15
<Q-FUNK>
ah
17:15
<sbalneav>
I'm sorry, am I sounding a bit bitter? :)
17:16
<Q-FUNK>
yes :)
17:16* vagrantc hopes for bitter-sweet
17:16
<Q-FUNK>
and we've both been there a few times, haven't we?
17:16
<vagrantc>
works with chocolate
17:16
<sbalneav>
Damn, I was shooting for really bitter.
17:16lammert has quit IRC
17:16
<vagrantc>
well, actually, i prefer 90+% cocoa ... which probably doesn't count as bittersweet
17:16
<Q-FUNK>
speaking of which, I just ran out of chocolate
17:17
<tstafford_>
coordinador: i tried making that work via notify-send and kind of gave up...
17:17
there are a few articles out on the web with scripts stating how to use notify-send in that way, but i wasn't able to get any of them to work
17:18
<coordinador>
tstafford_, what do you use for that purpose?
17:18
<tstafford_>
nothing...
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17:19
<coordinador>
there is a thing named linpopup, but it seems to need samba
17:20
Which is better? ubuntu+ltsp server packages or Edubuntu ?
17:21
<alkisg>
Installing ltsp from the alternate cd...
17:21
(F4 => select "install an ltsp server")
17:21
<sbalneav>
Well, I guess this will just have to wait until I get home tonight.
17:22
See you all on later.
17:23
<alkisg>
Bye sbalneav, don't worry, be happy :)
17:29
<tstafford_>
coordinador: i thought it may work to have a script load automatically from /etc/xdg/autostart which watches some file and shows whatever is appended to that file via notify-send or zenity dialogs, but i haven't tried it
17:35
<coordinador>
ok tstafford_ , thanks
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19:50
<cliebow>
anyone have url for bts2009?
19:54
<Ryan52>
cliebow: http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ByTheSea2009
19:54
that?
19:55
<cliebow>
yeah..i guess i found it..cant remember who took pics last year..warren i think..
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20:00
<Brian_H>
I am experimenting with ubuntu, ltsp, and kphone, is there a way to make only kphone run locally on each client?
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20:19
<nejode>
Hi there!... As soon as the clients boot into the desktop, a very annoying high pitch sound comes fron the speakers and there's no way to disable it
20:19
...have to shut down the client if it's a laptop
20:19
...any ideas?
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20:39
<Brian_H>
does anyone know how to set LTSP to use the local sound card for using a microphone and all other sound processing
20:40
<ball>
Brian_H: local to the terminal, or the server where the programs are running?
20:40
s/server/host/
20:40
<Brian_H>
ball: I'd like for the client to process all sound
20:41
the "thin clients" will all have sound, I'm attempting to setup thin clients with the ability to us a sip client
20:41* ball nods
20:41
<ball>
I suspect that's an integral part of ltsp. Using what though? PulseAudio?
20:43
NAS?
20:43
<Brian_H>
pulseaudio
20:43
<ball>
Brian_H: thanks
20:44
<Brian_H>
I am attempting this with ubuntu 9.04, I tried following the documentation on the "workinprogress" page, however it doesnt work for me
20:47
ball: is NAS preferred ?
20:48
<sbalneav>
Brian_H: If you're attempting to run a softphone, you'd be better off running it as a localapp
20:50
<Brian_H>
I have tried following this http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#Ekiga_SIP_Phone_Run_via_Localapp with no luck, I am however on 9.04 version of ubuntu
20:51
<ball>
sbalneav: that sounds reasonable.
20:51
Brian_H: whichever /works/ is preferred ;-)
20:51
<Brian_H>
ball: :) well I may try NAS then
20:52
<ball>
Brian_H: you misunderstand me.
20:52
If LTSP is built to use pulseaudio, then that's the way to go.
20:53
<Brian_H>
I think it is, as that is what ships with ubunut
20:53
<sbalneav>
Several people have got softphones running successfully as localapps.
20:54
<ball>
Brian_H: have you tried running it locally on the terminals?
20:55
<Brian_H>
ball: you mean as in the terminal on the client or on the server?
20:55
I was able to get kphone to work, however all the sound was being processed on the server and the quality was very poor
20:55
all the thin clients I have will have sound cards
20:55
<ball>
Brian_H: Like I said, on the terminal.
20:56
There are probably few apps where it's a good idea to run them on the terminal, but an IP phone seems like one of them.
20:56
<Brian_H>
ball: I've tried with the ltsp-localapps script that comes with ubuntu
20:56
<ball>
Why introduce the extra latency of a round trip to the application server?
20:57
<Brian_H>
ball: thats what I'm trying to avoid by running it locally, however I'm not having much luck
20:57
<ball>
oooh!
20:57
<Brian_H>
:)
20:57
<ball>
What /might/ be an issue is if the LAN for the terminals isn't routed to the Internet
20:58
...but then I suppose you'd just put an IP PBX on that LAN
20:58
<Brian_H>
yup, its on the same subnet :)
20:58
<ball>
on the same physical LAN too?
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20:59
<Brian_H>
yup about 20ft away, home office for now, soon to be a real office, hence my experimentation with ltsp :)
21:01
<ball>
Can you ping the PBX from the terminals?
21:01
(not from xterm running on the application server)
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21:03
<Brian_H>
yea connecting to the pbx is working, its the sound that is the issue
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21:14
<Brian_H>
following that page, in my ekiga settings under audio devices I get "silent/ekiga" and no options to select my sound card :(
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22:06
<sbalneav>
johnny: Well, I just discovered WHY they're using zipfiles instead of tarfiles.
22:07
The ZipFile object allows you to read and write file objects directly to/from strings, which is needed to support metadata info
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22:07
<sbalneav>
the TarFile object ONLY allows file operations (add/extract).
22:08
<johnny>
that's because you have to unzip the whole tar to do anything with it
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22:08
<johnny>
i know why they use zip now
22:08
the real question. is if it is necessary to do so
22:08
depends on how big the profiles get
22:09
<sbalneav>
they never actually unzip the metadata file in the zip archive; only read/write to if from strings
22:09
<johnny>
you don't need the metadata file if you rely on the standard things that tar already stores
22:09
<sbalneav>
No, you do need the metadata, as whether or not a setttings mandatory is stored in there.
22:10
If you're interested, I have the beginnings of a patch.
22:10
<johnny>
if you're already untarring the whole thing, it doesn't matter
22:10
but.. untarring the whole thing is bad if the profiles are large
22:10
thus why i suggested rsync and don't zip/tar the profile at all
22:11
<Dalik>
I am back for another issue I came across. I am using Xenserver which is running ubuntu server 8.04.3 and I can create a new virt image to boot pxe which does work and I can use ltsp. I tried to boot a lenovo desktop machine (new) and as soon as it gets to the ubuntu loading screen (progress bar stage) the computer locks. I tried another lenovo machine but differen model and again fails. I installed a different kernel on the ltsp server, ltsp-update-k
22:11
<johnny>
Dalik, take the quiet splash arguments off of the pxelinux.cfg/default file
22:11
off the entry in that file rather
22:11
<sbalneav>
doing something like rsync would require completely reworking the storage.py module from the ground up.
22:12
<johnny>
sbalneav, of course.. that's why i wanted to talk about it first :)
22:12
<Dalik>
hhers
22:12
<johnny>
figure out what what people actually want from it
22:12
<sbalneav>
And feature freeze is thursday.
22:12
So I'm back to the zip.
22:12
<johnny>
surely it wont' be changed for this release
22:12
i wasn't expecting that
22:12
<sbalneav>
Not the impression I was getting
22:13
<johnny>
that would have been impossible
22:13
too much work for too short of time
22:13
that would have had to be started back in march probably
22:13
or whenever 2.27 started
22:14vagrantc has quit IRC
22:14
<johnny>
changing the storage architecture isn't something that should be done on a whim.. we need to see what people actually want and need
22:14
<dberkholz>
johnny: i put in the overlays request for knipwim today
22:14
<johnny>
one of the benefits of the current zip.. (or tar) is that you can http it
22:15
<dberkholz>
finally finished my ph.d and looked at unrelated things again
22:15
<Dalik>
ipconfig eth0 SIOCGIFINDEX no such device. No devices to configure, cant open /tmp/net-eth0.conf then dead.
22:15
<johnny>
Dalik, that means you're missing the nic driver
22:15
iyou need to rebuild the initramfs
22:15
dberkholz, i wish i had a machine capable of running a vm :(
22:16
<dberkholz>
external drives are like $50 nowadays
22:16
<Dalik>
thanks johnny
22:16
<johnny>
i have plenty of hd space..
22:16
it's processor and ram
22:16
this machine maxes at 1GB
22:17
and it's a 1st generation centrino 1.5 ghz
22:17
<dberkholz>
see if someone will send ya one real hardware client, then you just run the server on your machine
22:17
<johnny>
it's about also compiling
22:17
it means i can't use the machine for anything else
22:17
i need a entire new machine
22:17
an*
22:18
this thing works fine as a client :)
22:18
i can vm a client.. it's a server i don't have
22:18
<dberkholz>
i'd send ya my old workstation but it's not much better, 2 of nearly the same cpu you've got.
22:18
athlon 2000+
22:18
<johnny>
dberkholz, that's why i just wanted somebody to share me a xen vm on thier machine or somethin
22:18
<ball>
I'm due for a new machine too.
22:19
<johnny>
just so i have a proper fast gentoo vm to play with
22:19
<ball>
Can't order the thin clients until I have a test server
22:20
<dberkholz>
i bet you could find a new desktop machine for $250 that's at least 5x better than what you've got
22:20
on tigerdirect or something
22:20
i do understand not havving $250 to spend though, i'm in a similar situation =)
22:21
<ball>
dberkholz: 250 would get me a dual-core box with 4 Gbytes RAM
22:21
(using existing case, PSU, hard disk etc.
22:22
<johnny>
i don't want a desktop machine.. i don't really have a place for it
22:22
<dberkholz>
powerful laptops are expensive.
22:22
<johnny>
i just need a new laptop
22:22
this one is 4 years old one
22:22
s/one//
22:23
<ball>
I would like a nice dual-socket Shanghai box, but that's not going to happen.
22:23
<dberkholz>
i paid like 1100 for my thinkpad, and that was with a friend's employee discount
22:23
<ball>
Laptops are awful things.
22:23
<johnny>
awful?
22:23
i love mine.. even if it is 4 years old :)
22:23
i use it exclusively..
22:23
even when i had a powerful machine..
22:23
that powerful machine became the new ltsp server at my store
22:24
which is why i don't have a gentoo machine anymore
22:25
dberkholz, that's reasonable.. i plan on spending that much or more
22:25
<ball>
A lot of them seem to have dismal cooling and generally piss-poor design. They all seem a bit fragile too.
22:25
I need something robust.
22:25
<johnny>
truely.. they do seem a bit fragile...
22:25
then buy one of those toughbooks :)
22:25
<dberkholz>
thinkpads have metal frames, they're pretty well put-together
22:25
<Dalik>
I installed freenx on a test ltsp lastnight and I was able to pxe boot into the server and connect to the nx server from the nx client and it all worked well. of course I can't maange the pxe clients via the ltsp manager tool but it does work. My next step is to be able to run the nx client from a pxe booted machine and start the nxlicent to connect to the TS. Anyone done this before and does a local app run completely locally and I take it the applica
22:25
<johnny>
you can drop that thing.. put it under watever.. etc
22:26
Dalik, if you do that.. you won't get local devices
22:26
iirc anyways
22:26
<dberkholz>
as far as consumer laptops go, probably the only thing i would choose over TP is an apple, and the price premium isn't worth it to run linux
22:26
<johnny>
i want 2 new laptops..
22:26
a nice tp.. and an arm based netbook..
22:27
<ball>
ARM is an Official Thing of Beauty.
22:27
<johnny>
not if you run windows :)
22:27
luckily.. i don't
22:28
<ball>
I don't either.
22:28
<johnny>
dberkholz, just see if you know any gentooers who might want to share a vm just for ltsp testing/compiling
22:28
<ball>
Haven't done for easily ten years, at least on my own hardware.
22:28
<johnny>
dberkholz, also.. can you please bug somebody to bump the damn sshfs-fuse!
22:28
it's still ~arch after 8 months
22:29
<dberkholz>
johnny: not really, most people who share VMs generally want resources shared instead of consumed by 1 slice
22:29
johnny: did you file a stable bug?
22:29
<johnny>
yes
22:29
in january
22:29
<dberkholz>
ping on it weekly or so
22:29
as long as it's not amd64
22:29
<johnny>
is genstef still around?
22:30
i'll ping on it again for sure.. i just thought that was bad form.. but i guess it has been awhile now :)
22:30
dberkholz, are you familiar with what is happening with openrc ?
22:31
after openrc and sshfs-fuse are stable.. we'll only be using ~arch for ltsp packages .. FINALLY
22:31
<dberkholz>
genstef is pretty vanished
22:31
last commit in march
22:31
<johnny>
ah.. well.. will pinging be useful then?
22:31
<dberkholz>
not if he's the only @gentoo.org assigned or in cc
22:31
<johnny>
seems so .. so what can we do?
22:32
<Dalik>
johnny, thats ok in my situation as the nx client would connect to the ltsp server for openoffice and some other apps and a windows TS server for special applications. A local NX client would allow for better response and richer user experience. I dont care about local devices on the thin/fat client unless this includes the mouse and keyboard but I dont care about local harddrive access as folders would be mapped on login.
22:32Beer has joined #ltsp
22:32
<johnny>
Dalik, or usb keys? sound?
22:32
cdroms?
22:32Beer has quit IRC
22:32
<Dalik>
johhny, sound is not a problem, and usb not a problem.
22:32Beer30 has joined #ltsp
22:32
<dberkholz>
johnny: if it's a stabilization bug, not a version bump, it should not be assigned to genstef
22:32
<johnny>
ok.. well you're good to go
22:33
<dberkholz>
johnny: so i'd cc $ARCH@gentoo.org and ask for stabilization
22:33
and maybe say genstef's been gone for 5+ months
22:33
<johnny>
ah.. kernel-misc is in there
22:33ball has quit IRC
22:33
<dberkholz>
ARCH=x86 in this, i presume
22:33
<johnny>
in the cc
22:33
<dberkholz>
this case*
22:34
<johnny>
hmm.. what's wrong with amd64?
22:35
<dberkholz>
the amd64 team encourages maintainers to stabilize their own packages
22:36
i see pva bumped sshfs-fuse lately, you could cc him
22:36
<johnny>
pva? email?
22:36
<dberkholz>
pva@
22:36
<johnny>
ok
22:36
<dberkholz>
look at the developer list or changelog to get his name
22:37
<johnny>
cc done
22:38
we'll see what happens
22:39
dberkholz, so.. aren't you a proud parent by now?
22:39
how's that goin?
22:39
<dberkholz>
keeps me busy
22:39
my daughter's turning 1 year old next week
22:39
<johnny>
it's been that long.. OUCH
22:39
time flies
22:40
<dberkholz>
yeah i think our gettogether was about 2 months before she was born
22:41
<sbalneav>
johnny: If you'd like to look at something in the next couple of days, a lot of mod_key events don't make it through Xephyr
22:41
arrows, f-keys, etc.
22:41
<johnny>
sbalneav, that's exactly the kind of thing that stopped me from working on sabayon :)
22:41
the X crapola
22:42
i had enough trouble getting one bug fixed with the help of uhmm.. i can't even remember his name..
22:42
anyways.. he fixed a bug in xkeyboard-settings
22:43
<dberkholz>
svu?
22:43
<johnny>
yep!
22:43
that's the one..
22:44
<sbalneav>
Well, the problem with perms has been fixed I think, better than last nights fix.
22:44
last night I added a "mode" to the metadata
22:44
but the zipfile stores the mode.
22:45
the problem was to write a file they were doing a:
22:45
<johnny>
sbalneav, also.. i made some cleanups to the website, but NOBODY would help me figure out how to integrate into their system.. NOBODY
22:45
<sbalneav>
file (dest_path, "w").write (zip.read (f))
22:45
instead of simply doing a zip.extract(f, dest_path).
22:46
<dberkholz>
anyone interested in coming to an open-source conference in minneapolis in a year or so?
22:46
<johnny>
i'm interested in going to any open source conference anywhere :)
22:46
<sbalneav>
johnny: The problem is, sabayon is, effectively, dead upstream
22:46
<Beer30>
that is really close to me :D
22:46
<johnny>
sbalneav, my problem at that point was the web admin folks.. not even sabayon folks
22:47
<dberkholz>
admins tend to be awfully busy
22:47
<johnny>
sbalneav, perhaps collaboration shoudl be done with the kde folks..
22:47
<sbalneav>
federico and umandindu keep it limping along by applying whatever patch, and federico fixed the xephyr problem because novell had a paying customer that wanted it.
22:47
johnny: on what? kde's got kiosk mode
22:47
<johnny>
if we agree with their approach.. can't we make it gnomeish ?
22:47
<dberkholz>
does sabayon actually work well enough at this point to be usable?
22:48
<johnny>
dberkholz, depends on what you need to do.. i had it usable enough for me..
22:48
<dberkholz>
it was pissing me off a year or two ago
22:48
<sbalneav>
dberkholz: it works not too badly now.
22:48
I've spent the last 4 months working on it.
22:48
<dberkholz>
sbalneav: rock on
22:49
<sbalneav>
kde = qt, gnome = glibs kde = c++ gnome = c
22:49
<johnny>
sbalneav, and?
22:49
<dberkholz>
i had in mind setting up some sort of reasonable default and then applying it every time i created a new user
22:49
<johnny>
they rely on networkmanager in kde.. and gstreamer.. and shared-mime-info, etc..
22:49
<sbalneav>
I don't think there's a way to make kiosk mode "gnomeish"
22:49
<dberkholz>
but it was totally not working
22:49
<johnny>
kde relies on plenty of things that started in gnome community
22:49
<dberkholz>
menu items, desktop, tray icons, applets, mainly.
22:50
<sbalneav>
right, but they don't use gconf, for example.
22:50
<johnny>
and neither will gnome soon :)
22:50
gsettings is next
22:50
iirc
22:50
<sbalneav>
sabayon relies exclusively on receiving gconf events.
22:50
<dberkholz>
gnome is so funny like that.
22:50
always rewriting stuff instead of fixing bugs
22:51
<johnny>
that's because the bugs are inherent in the original design
22:51
dberkholz, plus.. more stuff got back into gtk proper .. instead of gnome itself
22:51
<sbalneav>
and if gnome moves to something other than gconf, we can kiss sabayon goodbye unless someone re-engineers it.
22:51
<johnny>
sbalneav, it's going to happen for gnome 3
22:51
<dberkholz>
hopefully they just maintain some kind of compatible api
22:52
<johnny>
dberkholz, probably
22:52
<sbalneav>
then we'll lose sabayon entirely. Unless someone's working on a sabayon replacement for gnome3
22:52
<johnny>
dberkholz, much effort was spent this cycle removing dependencies on things that got moved into gtk proper like the egg stuff.. libgnomeui, etc
22:52
plus the bonobo crap..
22:53
dberkholz, i'd say that more stuff got removed then added featurewise for 2.28
22:53
or rather.. refactored..
22:53
<dberkholz>
yeah, like my ability to turn on my laptop speaker
22:53
<johnny>
is that a problem with gnome?
22:53
or pulse..
22:53
<dberkholz>
gnome's overly simplified audio interface
22:53
<johnny>
that got fixed
22:54
<sbalneav>
ugh
22:54
<dberkholz>
gnome-alsamixer works fine.
22:54
<sbalneav>
hate the new login widget in karmic
22:54
<johnny>
dberkholz, fedora and ubuntu started shopping the original..
22:54
shipping*
22:55
sbalneav, i'd say less important than rewriting.. is making sure the concerns that made the creation of sabayon complicated in the first place are taken care of
22:55
you might want to talk to ryan lortie (desrt) about that kinda thing
22:55
<dberkholz>
there's an interesting conflict between developer needs and user needs.
22:55
<johnny>
he was working on dconf
22:56
<sbalneav>
Somebody else can.
22:56
<dberkholz>
users need sabayon to keep working. developers want this clean, maintainable design and code, and they don't seem to care about making everyone else port code
22:56
<sbalneav>
I'm getting rather tired of saving the world.
22:56
<dberkholz>
sbalneav: what if we got you a cape, and a fan to blow it out behind you?
22:57
<johnny>
sbalneav, i thought you were just trying to save legal aid.. not the world :)
22:57
<sbalneav>
I'll blow something out behind me, won't be a cape.
22:57
I don't *need* it at legalaid. I get along fine without it.
22:57
<johnny>
oh.
22:57
i thought that is why you were working on it
22:57
<sbalneav>
No.
22:57
<johnny>
imo.. canonical should be paying somebody to work on it
22:58
dont' their customers need it???
22:59
well.. you are truly a superhero then sbalneav ...
22:59
<sbalneav>
I'm working on it simply because there's so many people who wander in here and #edubuntu looking for some way to manage users and there's nothing. And a guy with millions of dollars who keeps talking about how he wants to be a player in the corporate market has sunk exactly $0 and 0 effort into the ONE tool that he'll need working for anyone to even CONSIDER taking him seriously/
22:59
<johnny>
even without the cape
23:03
<sbalneav>
Why the &*^*^%*& when I install pbuilder do I get postfix?
23:03
<johnny>
lol.. that makes no sense
23:04
then again.. when i installed imagemagic on centos i got a bunch of gnome libs..
23:05try2free has left #ltsp
23:06
<sbalneav>
A gripe I made earlier to Lns. This entire SRU thing is the biggest joke *ever*. Multi-bin printing does not work, *period* in hardy. You can't WORK in a corporate environment unless you can print on both plain and letterhead and envelope bins. I patched the bug upstream in cups and got the patch accepted, and even produced the .dpatch needed for the hardy packages. Filed the bug in launchpad and contacted the cupsys maintainer in
23:06
Nine months later...
23:06* sbalneav watches tumbleweeds go by
23:06
<johnny>
i agree..
23:07
try another distro?
23:07
<sbalneav>
Sucks everywhere.
23:07
<johnny>
they don't pay enough people to work on non modern software
23:08
<sbalneav>
The only disto I ever used that I actually could do anything with was slackware.
23:08
<johnny>
all the people who do the work .. work on new stuff.. not old..
23:08
sbalneav, so what would have happened if a paying customer had griped?
23:08* sbalneav shrugs
23:08
<johnny>
perhaps it would have been fixed then
23:09
<sbalneav>
Guess that tells you how many *real* *paying* business customers ubuntu has, eh? :)
23:09
<johnny>
imo... it's just too hard to stabilize free software.. it's only recently that we are starting to get modern software that users expect..
23:09
we're just now getting simple video editing software for example
23:10
and it requires libs that are very new..
23:10
since the features werent even there before
23:10
that were required
23:10
<sbalneav>
I mean, I still like ubuntu the best out of all the distros I've used. It's just... trying to get anyone to fix anything once it's out the door is impossble.
23:11
<johnny>
sbalneav, yeah.. ubuntu is just too slow for me to personally use.. if it weren't for ppas.. it'd be pretty bad for me at work too
23:11
<sbalneav>
Seems like the only way to get something done would be to get core-dev. But I haven't got the time or the inclination to learn packaging inside-out.
23:11
And that's the fault of the "six months 'till next release" bataan death march they're all on.
23:11
Look at ogra
23:12
Works like mad 'till release
23:12
stuff gets out the door.
23:12
<johnny>
are you in favor of timed releases?
23:12
just longer?
23:12
or not at all?
23:12
<sbalneav>
I think timed releases are fine. But 6 months isn't long enough
23:12
<johnny>
perhaps 8 months would be good
23:12
<sbalneav>
1 year
23:12
<johnny>
gnome runs into the same problems as well
23:12
<sbalneav>
minimum
23:12
<johnny>
a year is too long
23:13
software is evolving too fast
23:13Dalik has quit IRC
23:13
<johnny>
perhaps in 3 years we can do that..
23:13
<sbalneav>
For WHO?
23:13
<johnny>
remember the kernel situation?
23:13
with eveyr distro having seriously patched almost incompatible kernels? that situation is much less now
23:13
<sbalneav>
If you're in a business environment, there's no WAY you can change everything every six months, unless you only have a few desktops
23:13
<johnny>
that's the point of lts tho right?
23:14
<sbalneav>
HAHAHAHA
23:14
<johnny>
ubuntu just doesn't pay enough people to do it
23:14
<sbalneav>
WHO'S WORKING ON LTS
23:14
Answer: no one
23:14
<johnny>
few people work for free on old software..
23:14
i don't..
23:14
<sbalneav>
they're all working on the next 6 month release
23:15
<johnny>
me thinks sbalneav needs a vacation
23:15
<sbalneav>
If someone were working on LTS, my bug, with dpatch, tested, notified to the cupsys maintainer, would have been FIXED since it plain old fasioned doesn't work.
23:15
Just got back from one.
23:15
I need retirement
23:15
15 years to go and counting.
23:16
Can't get here soon enough.
23:16
It's just frustrating, and I need to vent.
23:16
<johnny>
i understand..
23:19
<sbalneav>
I've been using GNU/Linux for a long time. We've always had an emphasis on new features, sure. But I fondly remember a time when *fixing bugs* was a big priority.
23:19
Bigger than new features.
23:19
<johnny>
and that was before 2002 i assume?
23:19
<stgraber>
good evening
23:20
<sbalneav>
Evening stgraber!
23:20Brian_H has quit IRC
23:20
<johnny>
stgraber, uhmm.. where are you that it is evening?
23:20
<sbalneav>
stgraber: I've got a karmic box booted
23:20
in virtual box, so I'm shooting for a karmic package tonight.
23:20
<stgraber>
we are using LTS at Revolution Linux, for all services except the desktop.
23:21
sbalneav: great
23:21
sbalneav: did you find a way to fix that automagic issue ?
23:21
<sbalneav>
No
23:21
But ogra told me to "forget hardy and focus on karmic"
23:21
LOL
23:21
See previous rant. :)
23:21
<stgraber>
not very surprising :)
23:22
<sbalneav>
And I'm not blaming ogra. No fault of his.
23:22
<stgraber>
I had to fight someone asking me to upgrade my samba to something fresher than hardy today :)
23:22
I have hardy everywhere but the LTSP root and the LTSP application servers.
23:22
<johnny>
me personally.. i don't trust lts releases
23:22
<stgraber>
(but I'm really waiting for the next LTS, I'll have to maintain a lot less PPA packages then)
23:22
<sbalneav>
Well, and you're CORE-DEV for crying out loud, where's YOUR vital patch to xdg in the SRU process? :)
23:23
Stuck in the process :)
23:23
We're all victims to this monster we've created.
23:23
<stgraber>
sbalneav: yeah ... my libxcb patch is currently somewhere in the process :)
23:23
sbalneav: I don't really care, I have it in my PPA ...
23:23
<sbalneav>
It's somewhat.... kafkaesque
23:23
<stgraber>
now, I'd have thought that I'm not the only one wanting fast X11 on older distros but well ...
23:24
<sbalneav>
So, lemme see if I got this right...
23:24
apt-get source sabayon (this is in karmic)
23:24
move the debian dir out
23:24
get the new upstream tarball
23:24
unpack
23:24
mv the debian dir in there
23:24
fix up the patches
23:25
What *name* should I give it?
23:25
upstream is 2.27.91
23:25
<stgraber>
name ?
23:25
ok
23:25
2.27.91-0ubuntu1 that'd be
23:25
<sbalneav>
current in karmic is 2.27.0-0ubuntu1
23:25
ok
23:25
will do.
23:26
One moment, mon ami
23:26
<stgraber>
I've got time, upgrading my Nokia E51, that can take a while :)
23:27
especially upgrading it from a Windows 7 VM using the new kvm usb support (fun stuff and working just fine for now)
23:27artista-frustrad has quit IRC
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23:49
<sbalneav>
stgraber: OK, package is built, works successfully on karmic
23:49
it was hilarous seeing an Xephyr window inside a virtualbox window inside my desktop
23:50
"How many nested desktops can we have?"
23:50
I've dputted it to my ppa
23:50
we'll see if it turns up
23:50
<stgraber>
did you try: lintian -iI *.dsc *.deb ?
23:50
it usually shows most important packaging issues
23:52
<sbalneav>
Only complaint was out of date standards version
23:55alkisg has joined #ltsp
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23:57
<stgraber>
ok, you can probably bump it to 3.8.3
23:58
I guess you made sure the package works correctly on karmic ?
23:58
if so, I can get it from your PPA, have a quick look around at the changes from current's karmic version to yours and then upload to karmic