IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 5 August 2012   (all times are UTC)

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12:19
<markit>
hi alkisg, how are you? I have the need of backup user's account and restore in a different system with an updated OS. You told me you already have solved this issue, could you point me to the code so I can get "ispiration" of how do things properly?
12:19
I was thinking about a simple tar ignoring hiddend files/dirs (I don't want old configs)
12:20
then untar and re-issue user:group and ACL settings
12:20
of course, after re-creating the related user :)
12:20
<alkisg>
Hi markit, to backup/restore user accounts we're using sch-scripts
12:21
We don't modify the file system, to take a backup for /home see one of the ubuntu wiki pages about backup
12:21
<markit>
"We don't modify the file system" means?
12:21
<alkisg>
Also we're not using ACLs, I couldn't see anything useful in them for our use cases
12:21
We don't do chown -R or ACLs or backup/restore /home etc
12:21
<markit>
and is a particular file in sch-script? as far as I remember is commented in greek...
12:22
<alkisg>
Phantomas is rewritting that part now, so the newer and better version isn't yet ready
12:22
(which has support for conflict resolution)
12:22
No, it's not one file, it uses libraries (libuser.py) etc, so you can't take 1 file and use it
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12:23
<markit>
regarding ACL, I implemented it to solve some issues you don't have or solve differently, I have to take a lot of time and rething the whole problem and re-reading our conversation on the subject that I took note about
12:23
btw, do you think is a suicide include the kubuntu/backport to have updated KDE in 12.04?
12:24
<alkisg>
Backports are enabled by default in ubuntu afaik
12:24
<markit>
yep, but not kubuntubackport
12:24
that brings you updated KDE
12:24
let me find the page
12:24
<alkisg>
No idea there, I'm not using KDE
12:25
<markit>
are you really using "unity"?
12:25
<alkisg>
No, gnome-fallback, looks like the old 10.04 gnome panel
12:26
<markit>
I see... I was wondering if a simple lxde could make sense instead of kde
12:26
<alkisg>
Why not gnome-fallback?
12:26
It's light enough, and has the whole gnome backend to support it
12:26
<markit>
will be removed soon, and I think lxde uses low resources
12:26
and I dislike gnome ;P
12:26
(remember me Incaza and M$ stuff)
12:26
<alkisg>
When it's removed, cinnamon will probably be ready to switch there, which again looks like 10.04
12:26
<markit>
remembers
12:27
lol, tradition over innovation
12:27
everyone loves XP ;P
12:27
<alkisg>
LXDE does use low resources, but not a whole lot less than gnome-fallback, and that's because it's missing stuff
12:27
<markit>
I see
12:27
<alkisg>
If you don't care about that stuff, sure, you could use it
12:28
Gnome isn't directly related to mono or .net
12:28
Also, I'm a bit worried about how KDE will fare without the Qt commercial support
12:29
<markit>
I have to use better my time and solve completely 12.04 stuff in my scripts, and update all the 3 installation I've done so far
12:29
time slips through my fingers so fast...
12:29
Qt is Free software, I've no fear
12:29
someone will pick it up
12:29
<alkisg>
Check sf.net, 10.000 dead free software projects there
12:30
<markit>
the main problem I see for FOSS is that people have to understand it and help/found it
12:30
yep, like gnome-fallback or it's successor
12:30
<alkisg>
FOSS needs companies and money, otherwise it dies when the developer sees that he needs to find another job :)
12:30
<markit>
whatever you choose, there is a risk
12:31
but Qt is widely used
12:31
FOSS needs dev to have it as "the job"
12:31
<alkisg>
In nokia phones and KDE, where else?
12:31
<markit>
with or better without companies that have different interests, mainly on user lock in
12:31
<alkisg>
And nokia just killed it, it's firing the developers
12:31
<markit>
nokia is a M$ company now, backrupt is near
12:32
<alkisg>
With wayland and 3d acceleration and tables etc in the future, there needs to be some company behind such libraries, otherwise they get into low maintenance mode
12:32
*tablets
12:33
<markit>
I know, even if I hate tablets and wayland
12:33
things are becoming worse and worse OMHO
12:33
but I'm a pessimistic ;P
12:33
<alkisg>
Wayland is good, it'll give us an UI without 20 years of compatibility code + design
12:34
<markit>
and kill LTSP and network X feature
12:34
<alkisg>
And tablets are good too, I just don't like the fact that they're trying to merge the UIs
12:34
Why kill LTSP?
12:34
Fat clients work anywhere
12:34
And thin clients might be better off as zero clients
12:34
<markit>
"zero clients"?
12:35
<alkisg>
Yeah, google for pc over ip
12:35
I'm guessing hardware thin clients will be more common in the future
12:35
And that'll be a good thing, having hardware accelleration for remote UI
12:35
<markit>
proprietary stuff?
12:36
well, we have so old pc in schools that hw acceleration will never come in 50 years ;P
12:37
<alkisg>
Old hardware doesn't have many chances in the 3d DE era, with unity-3d, gnome-shell etc
12:37
Not with X anyway, maybe if another protocol emerges...
12:37
Anyway, time to get back to work :)
12:38
<markit>
pnp-ltsp?
12:38
<alkisg>
ltsp-pnp is just a way to maintain fat clients without a chroot
12:38
Nothing more...
12:38
<markit>
or what else are improving? or maybe help wife with other stuff?
12:38
<baptiste>
wayland allows a VNC-like remote use (whole screen as a bunch of tiles). so if you used a ltsp thin client that uses VNC, wayland maybe doesn't changes much
12:39
<alkisg>
markit: yup, not computer related work :)
12:39
<markit>
baptiste: vnc is very slow I think
12:39
alkisg: oh, what a suprise :) good work then, see you soon, thanks for the tips
12:39
<baptiste>
markit, depends on the configuration. a buddy told ltsp to use VNC and it was very fast
12:40
<markit>
baptiste: I really dubt you can serve 24 clients fast
12:41
<baptiste>
2 to 4 clients were fast, never got to test that many
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12:42
<baptiste>
never saw the q6600 CPU at 100% (or is it 400%) use either
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12:49
<baptiste>
btw I couldn't see a difference between 10Mbps and 100Mbps on the clients (pentium 2 233). if you have a big ethernet switch with 1Gb uplink that goes to the server, and the server is ridiculously powerful (which is cheap), shouldn't that support 24 clients whatever the hell you do? :)
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12:55
<baptiste>
alkisg, did you look at nvidia VGX (graphics card with 4 GPUs, 16GB ddr3, no video ouput). up to 100 thin/remote client users
12:56
<alkisg>
baptiste: no, I don't have access to any "real" thin client hardware, we're just reusing desktop pcs here....
12:57
<baptiste>
that's server hardware. but tied to "real" thin clients, as you say
12:57
<alkisg>
But I'm pretty sure special hardware can help thin clients. Although, if I were to buy new clients, I'd buy fats, not thins
13:02
<baptiste>
is there an open protocol in the works.. you have things like microsoft RemoteFX, with 3D rendering encoded and beamed to thin clients, which use hardware decoding to show it
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13:03
<baptiste>
this seems great but pretty proprietary
13:09
now, if you make a fat from new hardware, it may have a celeron g530. this stuff is incredibly powerful and somwhat low power. I feel confused, can't believe it's true
13:12
thin beats it, only if you want to get _very_ low power, or if you use pre-pentium 4 old computers
13:14
<alkisg>
http://raymii.org/cms/p_Small_Linux_PCs_overview
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13:14* alkisg would like anything with >= 1 Gb RAM from that page :)
13:15
<alkisg>
No need for fancy protocols like remotefx with fat clients, as they work like regular installations...
13:16
Redhat is developing SPICE, but I haven't tried it
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13:26
<baptiste>
I find this thin client pretty interesting, though old, very slow CPU and made to run with a windows server http://www.norhtec.com/products/mctc/index.html
13:26* baptiste would like a chinese SoC with hardware decode for a fancy protocol, costing peanuts
13:34
<alkisg>
We might even see them embedded in monitors in the future :)
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20:48
<thafreak>
Anyone know the right place for lts.conf to be?
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22:08
<alkisg>
thafreak: distro/version?
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